Forums > Social Discussion > Animal abuse and the disturbingly insufficient consequences

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Blayze
Blayze

Doesn't play well with others...
Location: CANADA
Member Since: 28th Jul 2005
Total posts: 187
Posted:Alright, I did a search and nothing came up, which I though was strange, but anyways...
Last weekend in a town just north of my city there was a horrible case of animal abuse that ended with the animal having to be euthinized. Here is the link to the story Warning: this is quite disturbing
The torture that this animal suffered was more extensive than what is in this article, but I do not want to go into detail because it makes me sick to my stomach and brings tears to my eyes.
I am disgusted that these two teenage boys will likely get either a $2000 fine, or 6 months in jail (possibly both). The maximum fine for animal cruelty is $20,000. Does this seem fair?
What is fair? A man in the same town has recently been arrested for threatening to do to these boys what they did to this dog. Would that be fair?
Thought and opinions please...

...I could also use a hug!


I smile because I have no idea what is going on...

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Bek66
Bek66

Future Mrs Pogo
Location: The wrong place
Member Since: 27th Aug 2006
Total posts: 4728
Posted:hug

To you...

Also...can't quite bring myself to check out what happened, seeing as how I had to have my sweet ol' dog put to sleep just yesterday.....very sick and was not likely she could have been saved...but...
I personally think that instances of intentional cruelty should be rewarded with the same back in triplicate...and it will be...
They'll learn that Karma is quite a bitch...no matter what, it WILL come back on them one way or the other...


"Absence is to love what wind is to fire...it extinguishes the small, enkindles the great."
--Comte Debussy-Rebutin

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Aeori
Aeori

member
Location: Dorking(home), Sunderland(uni)
Member Since: 16th Oct 2006
Total posts: 77
Posted:$2000 is not enough of a fine and those boys unless seriously punished will probably go on to doing that with things other than animals...







Read the article those boys are [censored] up


Fear my wrath and call me muffin for I am the muffin of doom!!

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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted:that sucks and is in no way fair angry EVERY year around guy fawlks night you hear about people staping fireworks to animals tails and worse and i like animals but i wouldn't say i'm animal rights or anything that extreme i simply respect them for what they are and that is not something firewqorks should be straped to just so some moron can get a quick giggle

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Bah! Had have dogs for 18 years of my life :cry: :cry: :cry:

This world is a strange place... meditate I am lacking words to express my feelings right now. At first I was thinking of violence, but right now I'm just saddened.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Its kinda like the story of that family of goats that tried to cross the bridge...

Love is the law.

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Aeori
Aeori

member
Location: Dorking(home), Sunderland(uni)
Member Since: 16th Oct 2006
Total posts: 77
Posted:??? Do I want to know what that story is?

Fear my wrath and call me muffin for I am the muffin of doom!!

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Gremlin_Lou
Gremlin_Lou

member
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 29th May 2005
Total posts: 131
Posted:Thats terrible. I thought for a minute it was the Didsbury down the road from me here in sunny UK, but no, thankfully.

Niether of those sentences is harsh enough - not harsh enough to stop someone doing it again.

I remember just a few months ago my sister coming back to our parents house in tears after she'd been driving on the motorwayad someone threw a large alsation out of a van in the fast lane.

How can anybody be s cruel?
But i'm up for the 'eye for an eye' punishment, make them feel what they did to another living creature....

Or just take all the Pitbulls, and Bulldogs and other dogs confiscated from bad owners because their too aggressive and let them dish out the justice to him. In a sealed room. With a viewing window.....


'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by: Gremlin_Lou

Or just take all the Pitbulls, and Bulldogs and other dogs confiscated from bad owners because their too aggressive and let them dish out the justice to him. In a sealed room. With a viewing window....



So are you saying its not ok for humans to be cruel to animals, but it is ok for humans to be cruel to humans through animals? umm


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Gremlin_Lou
Gremlin_Lou

member
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 29th May 2005
Total posts: 131
Posted:I'm saying if some knobhead has tied a dog to the back of truck, thrown it out onto the freeway, thrown a kitten into a dryer or exploded a rabbit in a microwave, something, other than a really small fine or sentence should be done.....

I'm all for letting the dogs do it....

By your logic police dogs are cruel....i think its fairly cruel for a police man to set a dog on a human being who's trying to escape, but what can you do?

(Actually, I wasn't being entierly serious, but its still a better idea that a measly fine or 2 months in jail...)


'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:nice, new avatar Lou...



What on earth would you reckon an appropriate measure to be?



Those guys clearly have no compassion and not been raised in a way that they make the connection: animal = living being = feels pain. Kids are cruel (to each other, to animals and plants) many times. These guys were no kids. They'd been 19 and 17 (if I remember correctly) - what the heck would be an appropriate, corrective measure?



As I said, my first thought was violence (as with many I guess) but then again: "why do we kill people, who killed (people) to proove that the killing (of people) is wrong?" (jupp, different context, I'm aware)



[edit]



 Written by:

I remember just a few months ago my sister coming back to our parents house in tears after she'd been driving on the motorwayad someone threw a large alsation out of a van in the fast lane.





Just come to read this now eek



Hey, if one dislikes his pet, why not putting it to sleep or give it away to the asylum... Some ppl are so friggin censored in their mad2 heads, that really I am lacking words to vent my feelings......... frown

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1161175361)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:i think this is going down the wrong route here....we're not supposed to be creating MORE agressive behaviour in the world. surely the best route would be one that shows them they were wrong, teaches them to feel sorry for what they did, and also gives them some way of paying for what they did.

to be honest i'm not sure what the answer is, but i'm not sure that the eye for an eye approach is really helping us, it's only going to make people more angry and create more of that kind of action, maybe the answer is actually societal, and no amount of just taking our anger out on people is going to change that.

longer sentances or whatever, and also the half joking ideas some people posted are more about retribution it seems to me.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Some people are just cruel and vicious, and that goes for the animal abusers and the eye-for-an-eye types. More cruelty is just that, more cruelty.

Rather than petty vindictive retribution, the focus should be on prevention and education.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:clap ditto well said, jeff.

and how would you make this approach?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Animal abuse is sometimes the result of a psychological disorder, if that's the case then medical treatment is essential and they should be banned from keeping animals.

In most cases it's just the upbringing. Some people have grown up in a household where violence against animals is acceptable. Early education in schools or even a few plotlines in childrens cartoons can be used to reach children. Teachers ought to be taught how to deal with children who hurt animals.

In later life sensible and robust legal consequences should serve to disuade those who are just gits. Costly fines and prison for the worst cases. People who would hurt a dog would also hurt a child, so people with a history of animal abuse as adults should definately not be allowed to work with children ever.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:I blame Itchy and Scratchy for all the animal abuse in the world. Ever.
wink


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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:@Jeff: clap

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Gremlin_Lou
Gremlin_Lou

member
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 29th May 2005
Total posts: 131
Posted:Send them to prison, while treating any underlying disorders, then introduce to animals in prison.

Let them make the connection, let them become attached. In theory, it should help.

Trained Psychologists would be able to discern whether or not they were really making progress.


'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Should I be sent to prison because any mosquito I see in the room with me, I squish, and think nothing of it? umm

I love all other animals though. ubbangel


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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Survival of the fittest Jon, can't risk contaminating yourself or others with malaria...



ALL animals Jon? Even chickens...? biggrin


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:mmmmmm..tasty ubblol

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poig
poig

marmite and nutella sandwich
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Member Since: 19th Jun 2006
Total posts: 1590
Posted: Written by: Gremlin_Lou


Thats terrible. I thought for a minute it was the Didsbury down the road from me here in sunny UK, but no, thankfully.

Niether of those sentences is harsh enough - not harsh enough to stop someone doing it again.

I remember just a few months ago my sister coming back to our parents house in tears after she'd been driving on the motorwayad someone threw a large alsation out of a van in the fast lane.

How can anybody be s cruel?
But i'm up for the 'eye for an eye' punishment, make them feel what they did to another living creature....

Or just take all the Pitbulls, and Bulldogs and other dogs confiscated from bad owners because their too aggressive and let them dish out the justice to him. In a sealed room. With a viewing window.....




I agree with the eye for eye punishment, you really shouldn't be able to get away with it. The only reason there isn't a harsher fine/punishment is because dogs are different to us. They still feel pain, but they can't scream.


THE hop Pyro.
(with parents)
Unowned

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:poiq: You certainly have not experienced a dog in pain...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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poig
poig

marmite and nutella sandwich
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Member Since: 19th Jun 2006
Total posts: 1590
Posted:well, they can't bribe you, if you see what i mean, like tell you not to do it, or give you money to stop it.

THE hop Pyro.
(with parents)
Unowned

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Meeko_Kiddo
Meeko_Kiddo

journeyman

Member Since: 7th Sep 2006
Total posts: 84
Posted:It has been proven that many serial murderers or mass murderers abused animals when they were younger.

That is not a harsh enough sentence, at ALL. Abusing animals is sick and disgusting, and similar to child abuse. They cant defend themselves.

Sad story but it got good...

When I was younger my sister and I found a kitty that looked to be of kitten size.. he was tiny. He had blood all over him, and had BB pellets inside of him. He was scared of us but eventually let us feed him, hold him, give him water. For 2 weeks we kept him a secret, and my dad found him. My parents saw how timid he was but how he trusted us, and they couldnt turn him away then. We took him to the vet, where the "kitten" that seemes so small was a 4 year old cat that had been so malnurished he never grew. In his tiny body he had over 50 BB's inside of him. Some were removed but some couldnt be removed. In all the years we had him, he NEVER scratched or bit us. He was the most loving kitty, such a sweetie. He didnt like to go outside, and was very very scared of strangers. We had to tell strangers not to approach him, he would hide for the rest of the day if anyone he didnt know came near him. We dont know who abused him, but we could see how it caused psychological damage. He became deaf and blind, but still loved to play. To say how much this kitty meant to me is this.... he got really sick and we spent nearly 3000$ on him to help him stay well, and that not including many free services our vet gave us. He had a collapsed lung, pneumonia, liver and heart disease, he was a sick kitty. The morning we put him down he couldnt walk and I refused to have him be in any pain and knew we had to put him down. I was crying to hard and holding him that I didnt even want to put him down to change into regular clothes to take him to the vet. I knew it was better for me to hurt then let the kitty go through any more meds and procedures. The vet donated money to an association that helps find cures for kitty diseases in our cats name, and I got him cremated and still have his ashes in my room.

I think of how that kitty was so sweet and how much we loved him and it kills me to think that anyone ever hurt him like he was. But he found us, and Im glad smile I had him from when I was 5 until I was 18


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poig
poig

marmite and nutella sandwich
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Member Since: 19th Jun 2006
Total posts: 1590
Posted:What sort of censored up censored would fire censored bb pellets into a innocent cat. The censored up censored need the censored beaten out of them.

THE hop Pyro.
(with parents)
Unowned

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Meeko_Kiddo
Meeko_Kiddo

journeyman

Member Since: 7th Sep 2006
Total posts: 84
Posted:No kidding poig... it was heartwrenching to see him that way, the Vet said its a miracle he survived. And over 50 in a kitty that little... its sickening and I hope that XXXXer got what he deserved, my kitty was harmless as a damn fly and even if he was a crazy cat, NO ANIMAL deserves that kind of treatment.
EDITED_BY: georgemc (1161383376)


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poig
poig

marmite and nutella sandwich
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Member Since: 19th Jun 2006
Total posts: 1590
Posted: Written by: Meeko_Kiddo


No kidding poig... it was heartwrenching to see him that way, the Vet said its a miracle he survived. And over 50 in a kitty that little... its sickening and I hope that XXXXer got what he deserved, my kitty was harmless as a damn fly and even if he was a crazy cat, NO ANIMAL deserves that kind of treatment.


No kidding was meant, that is how i feel


THE hop Pyro.
(with parents)
Unowned

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted: Written by: Blayze


...I could also use a hug!



redface wow - in all that I forgot the most important part:

hug hug hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted:.... I know this is rather tangent..... but what the devil is Guy Fawkes Night? I tried looking it up after V For Vendetta and only came up with "A British holiday celebrated on November 5th."

confused


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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poig
poig

marmite and nutella sandwich
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Member Since: 19th Jun 2006
Total posts: 1590
Posted:It is also called fireworks night, so basically the whole country has fireworks, it is AMAZING!!

THE hop Pyro.
(with parents)
Unowned

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