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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:I thought i would start a thread for people interested in fire staff juggling,i am really interested to see any videos of people throwing two or more staffs,and in particular anyone taking it in new direction.
I am currently working on routines with two and three staffs and contemplating a serious attempt at the four staff shower,


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darimoth
darimoth

member
Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted:flash 3=55500 confused
ok so..just fill the"0" with another 5 ubbloco ubblol


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Easy as that biggrin Ok, it looks like Play is the place to be. EVERYBODY COME TO PLAY!!!

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bastl
bastl

member
Location: vienna / austria
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2004
Total posts: 123
Posted:but if we meet at uber -we can work out stupid patterns in theory -go home -practise -come back to play and rock cool



SO EVERYBODY COME TO UBER for ubbloco and eek


_told the fishfable to wes peden
_heard gloria gaynors "i will survive" 3 times live allready....in the same 20 min performance!

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:oooh, sooo tempting. I think it's time I went and had a little chat with my boss smile Oh, and I have to get myself out of a wedding to go to play (fortunately not my own!)

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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted:Hey all... Good to see you all here.

About the 5 staff juggling. I've seen an american baton twirler on video from the 93 IJA competition if I remember correctly doing continuous 4 baton horizontal shower and 5 baton horizontal shower flash. And the best of all was that she did the routine to "No limit" by 2Unlimited.. ubblol

It is really important to take care of your shoulders. I [censored] up mine juggling heavy triple staffs for 3 hours last summer. And since that I've had problems with them and 3 inflammations. One just a month ago. I guess I could've gotten away with less but i was stupid enough to keep busking for 2 more weeks and didn't treat the problem until very late with docs orders for inflammation pain killers and physiotherapy and massage. And because of this I haven't juggled staffs at all for ages. But even contactstaff and especially feicha which I'm studying now is hard on the shoulders and I keep stressing about my shoulders a lot. I recommend other training for muscles also such as a gym or swimming. Just to get a bit more strenght and stamina in all the upper body muscles. And stretch.

The video should be ready pretty soon from what I've heard. I've seen most of the material and you will love it. Some different styles and a lot of interesting things.

I hope to get back to staff juggling later this year and will probably work on doubles contact throws, catches and transfers. But at the moment it's feicha all the way.

See you somewhere hopefully and take care... A.


Point your toes.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hope all is good with you Antti... and hope to see you soon hug

Getting to the other side smile

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darimoth
darimoth

member
Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted:"pain is the alarm that something is wrong"
Virckrow.

Take care of your body..it's the only one we have!
(Untill we decide to implant organs or one day machine)


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:The biggest problem with staff juggling, is that most of the patterns stress high outside throws, creating over time an inbalance in the arm muscles. I would highly recommend anyone who is serious about doing staff juggling to do general strenth training for the arms/shoulders for injury prevention.

'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:i have a quick session attempting the five staff shower every now and then,its just to make four seem a fraction easier,i have never made five catches and dont know if i ever will,protecting my shoulder and cleaning up three and four are much more important to me(so is foot juggling cool)but its fun to try it sometimes,
as for endurance competitions,my physio has instructed me not to hold any pattern for long without a break as this is very bad for the muscles in the shoulder.so i think cleanliness and presentation are where the focus should lie(imho)
i am planning to go to feurkunst,the bjc and play this year and look forward to seeing some of you along the way,
i cant wait to see this video and definatly think we should put it on the IJDB video section,


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darimoth
darimoth

member
Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted: Written by: tim_marston


as for endurance competitions,my physio has instructed me not to hold any pattern for long without a break as this is very bad for the muscles in the shoulder.so i think cleanliness and presentation are where the focus should lie(imho)




Right.outside throws uses mostly the abductors muscles(that are are connected to the scapula and the back)..theese groups are not used often(in the biginning) so it's very important to stretch and also to start with less and then getting with more hard training but GRADUATLY.
Muscles like that are hard to be brokne but if that happend is real a mess to be repaired again.

I agree with you,tim: presentation is almost very important and that's why i like Antti style:he don't move himself from the place he stand ubblove


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Darimoth is right. The only two true arm abductors (muscles that lift the arm away from your body to the side) are the deltoid and, to a much lesser extent, supraspinatus (which is more of a rotor cuff muscle). Any connection to the spine is via other muscles, but can equally cause problems smile

It's important to remember that what the shoulder gives us in mobility and range of movement, it takes away in terms of stability. It's also a b***** to repair (that goes for pretty much any shoulder injury), so let's all take care smile


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darimoth
darimoth

member
Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted:Irinus there's also underspinatus,small rotondo,big rotondo(cannot translate that),but mostly are deltoid and superspinato

are you into medical lerning?



ps nice site for anathomy!really clear and silmple.

EDITED_BY: darimoth (1174564786)


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Hi, yeah I'm a sort of medical student. I'm not sure which additional muscles you are referring to (if underspinatus = infraspinatus then it's a lateral rotator), but we've got the main ones, so I guess that's the important thing smile

If you can get hold of a program called ADAM, then that's a really good dissection-style program biggrin


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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:as well as muscle damage,my physio is also concerned about repetitive strain injury and bone damage,i have very little understanding of this but have taken her advise and completely altered my training methods,my shoulder feels much better and my progress hasnt been affected,
as for cleanliness antti is always a good one to watch,however i always look to old school jugglers to really understand the meaning of cleanliness,
as well as being able to perform a trick clean with no fire,i aim to be able to perform it at night on fire in front of a crowd,as part of a routine that for me is the definition of clean fire-staff juggling


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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Hi guys, could you possibly tell us how you've both altered your training methods to sort your problems out so that we can benefit from your experience (though it would probably be good to stick a little disclaimer before any advice you give).

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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:i used to train an individual trick for long periods of time,repeatedly going for long clean sets,
i now work through a series of tricks using different muscle groups,i also dont try and hold any pattern for too long,hopefully this will allow each indivual muscle to rest and therefore puts less stress on each,
i have more short rests during a training session and pay more attention to any aches and pains that may occur,finally i try and have a day of rest every week,
but im no expert and would really appreciate anyones knowledge
confused


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darimoth
darimoth

member
Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted:i yust put my earphones on,take "some" sticks and juggle..when one drop it's over.
i just try for short time the trick,movement,catch i was doing when it drop and..back again,change the song,taking some staff and again!
smile


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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DavidJNolan
DavidJNolan

Precision instrument of speed and aromatics
Location: Vienna
Member Since: 21st Aug 2006
Total posts: 240
Posted: Written by: darimoth



I agree with you,tim: presentation is almost very important and that's why i like Antti style:he don't move himself from the place he stand ubblove



I hardly think that not moving can be considered 'presentation'*
In staff juggling, as in any kind of 'toss juggling, being able to stand still indicates that you can juggle cleanly, and is a necessary first step to being able to present your art. But there is a world of difference between playing a trick cleanly and really 'presenting' it.
Presentation includes things like costumes, choreographies (of sorts), consious body movements and stage presence. Technical juggling is arguably only 10-20% of a performance.

*not that I am suggesting Antti doesn't know about presentation. Any one who watches his contact staff routine would see that his is, by a significant margin, the best-presented staff routine on the market at the moment


Not a spinner!

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:"the best-presented staff routine on the market at the moment"

lol you live in a small world

one of the better ones okay
but THE best ????????????????
the best known in the spinning world maybe

watch around more wow

but with the rest i do agree

and greatings to alll vienna

Y tell the bastl he is a slacker for not coming to berlin (-:
cu


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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darimoth
darimoth

member
Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted:I know that,i was meaning you should have your character,your dress and all the tihngs a performance(complete one )need to have...and also that the juggling itself can be nothing if not in the right CONTEXT(it include all the thing Y sayd)..but still beeing able to clean the routine,whitout moving to run after the statff flying away,it's a starting poit because it mean that you can ALSO run after the staff by porpouse(that's could be a part of the performance,a caracher situation).

i think it's a matter of who's thecharacter you are acting,so when you decide that you go on with the presentation and dressing and so on.

For my goal would be great just have a good control of the routine:)



Y i have seen the avatar,are you the one in the ubervideo who do piruettes while throwing double in same time?(the orange colour of the staves suggest that)..if that is you---> WOW,compliemnt!:)

EDITED_BY: darimoth (1174766807)


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:... and to stop the routine, you simply catch them one by one, much like clubs? Or you do some passing routine with a second performer... guess it's kind of tricky, handling three or more staff (assuming you only have two arms - on the Hindu-side, however... ) wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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DavidJNolan
DavidJNolan

Precision instrument of speed and aromatics
Location: Vienna
Member Since: 21st Aug 2006
Total posts: 240
Posted: Written by: bentstix


"the best-presented staff routine on the market at the moment"

lol you live in a small world

one of the better ones okay
but THE best ????????????????
the best known in the spinning world maybe

watch around more wow

but with the rest i do agree




well, to the best of my knowledge, there are few others who could work in the market that Antti's routine could. If there are better, cool ... can you name any, I'd love to see them.

Of course, I haven't seen your routine yet Josh :P


Not a spinner!

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:to Y

beerchug beerchug


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:Technical juggling is arguably only 10-20% of a performance.

not sure i agree with the figures lol


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DavidJNolan
DavidJNolan

Precision instrument of speed and aromatics
Location: Vienna
Member Since: 21st Aug 2006
Total posts: 240
Posted:No Tim, i didn't expect you to wink
But I stand by what I say. People don't watch a show to see technical juggling, most of the time they don't understand or care about it. They want to be entertained, or in some way stimulated, but most of the time they don't get that from technique.

I have seen a street performance that was little more than an man eating a banana. Theres no technique in that, or there wasn't in the way he did it, but the presentation was so creative, so funny, so inspiring, that it was one of the most entertaining shows I have ever seen.

Conversly, watch any of the WJF people. These are (some of) the best technical jugglers in the world. 7 clubs, 11 rings, sometimes more. They do some of the most technically impressive juggling in the world, but show a non-juggler and they are often bored. Most people don't get it. They know its hard, but so what?

These are the two extremes. Most shows will fall somewhere in the middle, combining some technique with some sort of presentation. But the technique should only ever be part of the show, not the bulk of it, because it will ultimately leave non-juggling audienced bored and uninterested.

At least, thats my 2cents


Not a spinner!

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:There's quite an overlap here with the technical vs dance vs performance thread for those that haven't had the pleasure.



Back at the boring technical discussion:

Antti, when you say that you were juggling 3 heavy staves in your previous post, are those your concentrate staves?



_Y_, I'm about to make myself some longer juggling staves (if I don't buy concentrates!). Do you happen to know the diameter of your 1m staves so that our sticks will be compatible when we meet at conventions this year? biggrin I want to get this right because aluminium is f*****g expensive at the moment!


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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:Y,fair point but your still WRONG................... wink
(sorry dude but that last line got to me!!!!)
there is a balance,
at the end of the day for me personally its more about delivering technical skills that also appeal to the non-juggling crowd,if the patterns are clean and make the fire look good people dont have to understand it to appreciate it,
the RHD three staff shower is a great example of technical juggling that is also a big crowd pleaser,


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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Hmmn, Tim, I can understand for you the technical skills level is more important for you personally, but when you really want to make a good street theater number out of it (unless your plans have changed last we met?) what counts is delivery. Ive met a number of street theater performers, and I learned pretty quickly in that scene technique doesnt count for so much at all, the guys who earn the stupidly bit hats (sure most of them also have some amount of technique in there too) are the ones who know how to properly deliver the stupid jokes and puns, and spontaneous/flexible to work the different types of crowds.

Just like Jason Garfield was jammering at the first WJF abot stupid street performers who juggle three apples, eats the one, and spends nearly half an hour explaining to the people how hard that is, well yeah, that guy really DOES earn more money on the street than a five club backcross.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted:It is true that most streetperformers enter the stage with loads of tricks and end up cutting them off and concentrate on jokes the more shows they do. And I believe it doesn't have to be this way. People want to be entertained. And it doesn't necessarily mean making 10 minute jokes about rubberbands on your face while jumping a pogostick. I believe there is a place for real circus on the street. I always try to give the audience a world class performance besides talking trash and taking volunteers. And also keep the show tight. I hate watching 30 minute streetshows.

But yeah streetperforming is an art of it's own different from other stages. And only doing hardcore tricks won't get you much money. And a lot can be learned by watching streetacts. But if you are into streetperforming then have courage to do what you want and not what most of the performers do.


Point your toes.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Actually... never mind... nothing really to do with this thread rolleyes
EDITED_BY: _Clare_ (1175105637)


Getting to the other side smile

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