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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:I thought i would start a thread for people interested in fire staff juggling,i am really interested to see any videos of people throwing two or more staffs,and in particular anyone taking it in new direction.
I am currently working on routines with two and three staffs and contemplating a serious attempt at the four staff shower,


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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:thanks for the kind words,i train in a beautiful park in kendal in the lake district,any one is welcome weavesmiley
i hope one day to be able to perform the 4 staff shower with nine catches,with the rhd catch and throw,at night,with out destroying my shoulder,i dont know if i will make it but thats the plan!?!?!?!?!?
both bristol and preston for a meet is cool,so is play and feurkunst, biggrin
rob,jago and others have tried to teach me siteswaps,but my head caves in cos im poo with numbers!
confused2 (whover said juggling increases brain power was wrong)


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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:he tim

was just wondering how is your method to get the damn 4 shower clean

i myself been working on it since a while now but it goes and comes
not consistent enough for performing

been doing sets of 8 catches stop and another set

try to do it 10 times in a row
and fail (sometimes tho)
lol


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:and another question to you or any one

do you manage to get beyond the magic 4th round (16 catches)
i still dont
haven`t tried really hard since my arms get too wabbly after

and a itsy bitsy progress in the 5staff world i got too announce managed too do one 5 staff flash (with 5 catches)
happy but long ways too go
mad


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:hi josh
the way im trying with four is to work slowly thru the number of catches,so i worked on a flash for ages then five catches then six,im now plannig to get seven clean as my next mission,
i also go back to three staff continuos flashes repeatedly every time i struggle,
i dont think i will ever try and get more than nine catches,it too hard on the muscles,
im also trying to increase the efficiency of my training,by taking short breaks and analysing where im going wrong,i then try and concentrate on elimintating that fault,this always creates a different fault to eliminate,and so it goes on............................................................ juggle juggle juggle juggle juggle

congratulations on flashing five,ive never even managed too throw five,never mind catching five staffs!!!
i am coming to berlin for feurkunst it would be really cool to hook up with you and entheogen somewhere for some training and fun juggle


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darimoth
darimoth

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Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted:5 shower flash? wow!
really.
wow.

Wander what hands you have to hold all5 staves:)


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted: Written by: darimoth


5 shower flash? wow!
really.
wow.

Wander what hands you have to hold all5 staves:)



thanks lol
i did it the one time
lucky shot nothing more i guess biggrin

and tim did you try the pattern with 3 when you flash 2
wait a count and then throw the third one the 4th count
it did help me lots

what you mean flashing three consistent thats a preparation for 5 you know that ,or
it,s not really for 4
but might help since its a faster rhythm than the actually 4 staff shower
or am i wrong here

and when is feuerkunst again ??
lets try meeting
since we are not sure if we go again to bereurope


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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darimoth
darimoth

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Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted: Written by: bentstix





and tim did you try the pattern with 3 when you flash 2
wait a count and then throw the third one the 4th count
it did help me lots





True.I've tryied 4 flash for long time and it was not leading to nothing for long long time because,n my opinion,it's uselss to try the moves if you don0t have clear in mind what THE STAFF has do to (how many roll in the air,woh high..)

Another good things for the 4-5 shower is the "empty" time,like you throw 2 and clap your hands instead on throwing the rest,it' s a good way to have clear(in mind) how high have to throw and how many time you have to prepare the catch.ubbidea
Like the piruette training for clubs

balst i find that in 531 i do not make any 1...........so the pattern is uncomplete. the 1 for me it's just like a 2 redface
no good.


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted: Written by: darimoth



balst i find that in 531 i do not make any 1...........so the pattern is uncomplete. the 1 for me it's just like a 2 redface
no good.



try out of the half-shower makes it easier, for me at least
good luck
finding the one ubbrollsmile


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

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Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted:Crazy jugglers...



I managed to flash a 5 staff trick a few times once. It was like doing a 4 staff fountain but throwing one more staff from the right hand as high as possible and then try to catch everything. Not really beautiful.



And 3 on one hand is possible so skip the 5 and go for a 6 staff fountain.



Crazy jugglers... wink


Point your toes.

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JohnnyFettucini
JohnnyFettucini

Mr Pasta
Location: Sweden
Member Since: 25th Jan 2007
Total posts: 44
Posted:Hey!

I'm allready on it! 3 on one hand thing smile
I can flash it on my right hand and hopefully soon on my left. So a 6 staff fountain flash is soon coming to a cinema near you!


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bastl
bastl

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Location: vienna / austria
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2004
Total posts: 123
Posted:hello josh, everything good ? and hey you guys must come to uber hug i want todo this 5,6 staff passing agian + some contact huhu wink

 Written by: bentstix


try out of the half-shower makes it easier, for me at least




hmm strange, so from halfshower, but here you have to change direction of the 1...if you do it bevore actually transfer its a more complicated start than from a kaskade (in my opinion) and if you change direction after the transfer you need to build up a lot of force with the left hand shower throw (5) just out of your arm, not from the speed the staff travels....(exhausting or ?) -or do you not plan to play 531 continiously?
my favorite solution to your idea would be to throw the left hand 5 as a reverse throw in shower ubbloco

hope you are fine hug again hug
what about play?


_told the fishfable to wes peden
_heard gloria gaynors "i will survive" 3 times live allready....in the same 20 min performance!

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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted: Written by: JohnnyFettucini


Hey!

I'm allready on it! 3 on one hand thing smile
I can flash it on my right hand and hopefully soon on my left. So a 6 staff fountain flash is soon coming to a cinema near you!



confused

lol

i mean i can do like nearly always 3 or 4 throws with three
staffs in the right hand
does that mean i also gonna get the 6 staffs soon confused

ooh dude thats a funny one

you were right bastl im a slacker
didnt even cross my mind to do it continuously
thinking about it makes me agree the cascade is more appropriate to do the pattern continuously

so i do inside 5, out 3, left to right 1
and i came up with sweet variations
i gonna show you one day

and one day we will meet again hug


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted: Written by: bentstix


 Written by: JohnnyFettucini


Hey!

I'm allready on it! 3 on one hand thing smile
I can flash it on my right hand and hopefully soon on my left. So a 6 staff fountain flash is soon coming to a cinema near you!



confused

lol

i mean i can do like nearly always 3 or 4 throws with three
staffs in the right hand
does that mean i also gonna get the 6 staffs soon confused




well, yes, if you practise the other hand. ubblol

i performed three staff juglging for the first time at the bjc. now i have a whole summer to learn new stuff (think i'm going to stick to cascade variations to avoid the shoulder issues), but for a start, i think these patterns will be worked on

4440
441
531 (variation 1s, btb, bth)
64113
63141
423 (loads of 2 variations)

smile


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:does any one know if google has a gibberish translator wink?it's really cool to have so many great staff people on here,if only i could understand them,ubbcrying
im definatly gonna get a siteswap lecture,who's going help?

josh feurkunst is at the beginigi of june,it finishes on the saturday of berlin lacht street festival,are you performing there this year?
im not sure i understood are you saying flashing three isnt a good for four?((dont forget you are talking to a numbskull!))
redface :


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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:gibberish translator

I need to learn siteswap properely too, I keep looking stuff up and forgetting it.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:cheers mynci

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JohnnyFettucini
JohnnyFettucini

Mr Pasta
Location: Sweden
Member Since: 25th Jan 2007
Total posts: 44
Posted:bentstix of course it's that simple smile

We're not deeling with rocket science here or anything.
But of course, No Pain No Gain!
You won't get if for free!


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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:confused

Er, am I missing the irony in that comment? That simple? No, its not, first you need to properly juggle three in the right hand, always at the same height, and while staying perfectly still (not running all over the place like a dog chasing its tail to catch them all), and then learn it all over again with the left.

My estimate from three staff flash in one hand to doing a six staff fountain would be at least two years of hard work. At least.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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bastl
bastl

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Location: vienna / austria
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2004
Total posts: 123
Posted:ubblol i agree with you valerie
some people dont see to have a very clear idea what it means to juggle multiple staffs PROPERLY..
but maybe that is not what everybody wants, to just produce a video of an ugly 6 staff flash you dont need 2 years, BUT to actually be able to show it live to other jugglers and not just say: "look here is a vid about it" will take the time...

david pointed out to me, that this whole thread seems to change into a number juggling thread, who can flash the most staffs, its quite amusing biggrin
i dont like flashes.. if you wanna do a 5 staff pattern do at least 6 catches, better 7 or 8. if you dont than you will never feel the rhythm of the pattern, you just train something close to the pattern...because for a flash you dont need rhythm. as antti said he did a 4 staff pattern and throwed one extra staff just really high and than try to catch everything down...thats not a pattern. thats a mess, really cool, but a mess.
if you really want to juggle 5 staffs, start with more than a flash..if you make a vid, show a qualify, cause 5 staff is a major step in staff juggling and it deserves more attention than just a "simple" flash. wink dont get me wrong i am fare away of a 5 staff flash or qualify, i even dont attempt it at all ...i am happy and more than busy with 3 staff patterns... ubbangel if any of you guys does it, do it good hug
but like 5 staffs, (exept shower) how do you guys deal with the change of direction? when ever i think about possible 5 staff patterns, i quite dont see how to make the direction change with 5 staffs, -its much faster than with 3, and harder to build up the throwing force for the hight...a way might be to play that "perfect kaskade" thing (beginning of the thread) but with 5 ???? i struggle with 3 staffs to get that pattern really clean ....any thoughts?


_told the fishfable to wes peden
_heard gloria gaynors "i will survive" 3 times live allready....in the same 20 min performance!

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:whereas i disagree (as a juggler before a spinner)

it really is that simple - if you have one side mostly good, and know how to practise then you are theoretically not far from being able to do it.

espescially when you read the original post which says '6 staff fountain flash coming to a cinema near you soon' - you all assumed juggle, and didn't read flash. (i DO agree with bastl about preferring a qualify to a flash, but that doesn't make the big number flash any less impressive)

anyway... back to the thread point smile managed a 64113 (once out of about 15 trys before my arm got tired from throwing the 6) on sunday smile Non numbers jugglers - thats a three staff pattern, where one staff goes high in a column, the second goes low in a column from the other hand, peaking at the same time, the third staff passes accross and back, then back into a cascade.

very satisfying.


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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bastl
bastl

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Location: vienna / austria
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2004
Total posts: 123
Posted: Written by: bluecat


it really is that simple - if you have one side mostly good, and know how to practise then you are theoretically not far from being able to do it.




for me 1st step is to learn one hand, 2nd step is the other hand and 3rd (the biggest part) is to jam both hands togehters...but anyway one hand is on the right way if we wanna agree on that wink

 Written by: bluecat


(i DO agree with bastl about preferring a qualify to a flash, but that doesn't make the big number flash any less impressive)




hm i still think it is a shame to stop with a flash and not to train a couble of catches further. the nature of a pattern is that it needs to be repeated, if you just flash you play the structure of a trick once. impressive, but as a trick not as a pattern...i prefere patterns, they have more potential to take them further to the next level ubblol


_told the fishfable to wes peden
_heard gloria gaynors "i will survive" 3 times live allready....in the same 20 min performance!

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:what sized staffs are people using for 5 and 6 staff stuff :erm: beacuse I get the feelilng they are turning into batons more than "staffs" and what is the qualifying length for a staff? my juggling clubs are about 60cm

when I hear 5 staff shower I'm imagining 5 x 4ft (120cm) staves spinning like a loon...


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted: Written by: Mynci


what sized staffs are people using for 5 and 6 staff stuff :erm: beacuse I get the feelilng they are turning into batons more than "staffs" and what is the qualifying length for a staff? my juggling clubs are about 60cm

when I hear 5 staff shower I'm imagining 5 x 4ft (120cm) staves spinning like a loon...



i use 110 cm ones
not a baton biggrin

and to the 6staff fountain
for sure 3 staff in one hand is a step
but if your not able to do the 666600
what does it bring
i would say after having this solid
you can speak about 6 staff flash or qualify or your mother or whatever

keep on doing silly things
its always good for a laugh
ubblol

and bastl move your ass to berlin
to do some sillyness together


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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bastl
bastl

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Location: vienna / austria
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2004
Total posts: 123
Posted: Written by: bluecat


anyway... back to the thread point smile managed a 64113



forgot that in my last post...
dude thats wicked wink
i want to see that at uber biggrin
what kind of double transfer did you choose ?


_told the fishfable to wes peden
_heard gloria gaynors "i will survive" 3 times live allready....in the same 20 min performance!

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darimoth
darimoth

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Location: italy,.Tuscany-pisa
Member Since: 19th Jun 2005
Total posts: 62
Posted: Written by: bastl


 Written by: bluecat


anyway... back to the thread point smile managed a 64113



forgot that in my last post...
dude thats wicked wink
i want to see that at uber biggrin
what kind of double transfer did you choose ?



And obvusly with fire! biggrin


--Late biosas---
tired to watch videos,let's go juggling in the street.

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:i started this thead to discuss staff juggling as a whole,anything people are attempting to juggle with staffs is cool by me,numbers,siteswaps,flashes etc,its all good biggrin

im getting confused confused as to what we mean by a flash?am i correct in saying a three staff flash could be either,making three throws and catches(when learning)
or throwing from a contiuous pattern all three staffs in the air and then going back into a continuous pattern????

My staffs are 90cms long this is because this length works perfectly for my two staff twirling,
the obvious difference with a baton apart from length is that it is unevenly waited similar to a juggling club,

ive found although longer staffs are harder to learn patterns with in some ways in other ways not true,
long staffs tend to spin less(making them easier to control) and are also a lot easier to handle when on fire due to the heat being further away from the catching point,((four short staffs on fire is pretty intimidating))besides are we reallly getting into a debate about who's staff is bigger??? wink

as for fire,cleanliness etc,
for me personally i would consider a pattern clean when i can deliver twice plus one the number of staffs in catches,
ie,the three staff shower would need to be done with seven catches,the four staff shower nine catches,on fire at night with almost no foot movement,equal spins and a calm concentrated look on my face(not pulling a horrible grimace),with good posture in front of big a crowd,to a nice finish, ubbrollsmile

to anyone crazy enough to go for six staffs clean eek good luck it will take years,same goes for the clean five staff cascade,


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bastl
bastl

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Location: vienna / austria
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2004
Total posts: 123
Posted: Written by: tim_marston


im getting confused confused as to what we mean by a flash?am i correct in saying a three staff flash could be either,making three throws and catches(when learning)
or throwing from a contiuous pattern all three staffs in the air and then going back into a continuous pattern????




could be eihter you are right, might be an idea to call the 2nd version (e.g. 3 staffs in the air, non in your hands, back to pattern) a "3up" or "5up" depending on the numbers of staffs...but be aware that you can also play a 3up with 5 staffs -and than its not a flash ubblol


_told the fishfable to wes peden
_heard gloria gaynors "i will survive" 3 times live allready....in the same 20 min performance!

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:good idea seb,ive got my three staff 3ups pretty solid now!
i guess anyone attempting a serious go on the five staff shower needs to be able to do four staff 4ups easily before moving on to five staffs...good luck,lol


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bastl
bastl

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Location: vienna / austria
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2004
Total posts: 123
Posted:3 ups from shower or kaskade ?

_told the fishfable to wes peden
_heard gloria gaynors "i will survive" 3 times live allready....in the same 20 min performance!

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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:no tim thats where you are wrong
for five you need a 4 staff pattern with a hole (or 1 zero)
and solid flashs with 3 (there "just" have to be always 2 solid zero counts)
same for the 4 staff shower you "just" need a 3 staff shower with a hole
no flashs required


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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