• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

gizmo2009


member
Location: south wales

Total posts: 146
Posted:hey guys,, i dont know if theres a post here allready on this, but ive been playing with it for a while now, and i think ive finally come to a conclusion with it,, so bear with me .. lol

ok so ive been thinking about inverted airwraps and the such,,like,,attacking airwraps / hyperloops from same side but different angles for different effects.

you kno like a airwrap`s exagerated planes make a upside down V infront of ya?... well make it do a proper V shape then connect it and its kinda flops out undeneath it equaling in a "inverted" airwrap. the easiest way to describe it is,,,(with help of Goldies magic V theory wink )

get two sets of socks,, put one set down on the floor infront of you,,making a upside down v shape,, then line up your planes spinning same direction over the one on the floor,,and connect it and it should make a normal airwrap.

now change the poi on the floor to make a V shape,,and line up your poi over those, spinning same direction and connect it this makes a inverted out airwrap.

so essentially, the V shape is made from the poi heads and the nexus.

or another way to describe it is the normal airwrap goes from outside plane to inside plane, the inside out one, goes from inside to outside.

still following? lol,

using that same principle, try doing a simular thing with, hyperloops and it makes a very weird hype indeed. I think they are 'odd beat tangles` all though its kinda hard to visualise what is actually going on,

now, these diagrams show what i was initially thinking,


Non-Https Image Link

normal hype,,nothing major here,,,

now this is what i was thinking the inverted one would be,,,

Non-Https Image Link


BUT, it aint like this,, it shows the planes well,,and exactly how to enter it etc,,but exiting it, like in the diagram does not work,,so dont try it :P

this video on the other hand, is a " talk through" of exactly how it DOES work,

Non-Https Image Link


hehe see what i mean now?.. biggrin
ok and for a sumery

firstly i`ll map out all the normal hyperloops, and then the ones possible with the inverted entry.

note* R - right / L - left

Normal Hyperloops

forward hype R to L
forward hype L to R

reverse hype R to L
reverse hype L to R

now things get weird :P
Inverted Hyperloops

forward inverted hype, R to R
forward inverted hype, L to L

reverse inverted hype, R to R
reverse inverted hype, L to L

(where R to R and L to L means it will enter and exit on the same side Wink )

the easiest way to describe what happens is, imagine you connect your poi for a hyperloop, and it goes into the middle, for the four beats or whatever it is, then it proceeds to roll across your body and exit on the other side of where you entered it right?...

well when you do the inverted entry, the poi go into the middle for the four beats (it may be a odd beat tho Confused ) then you take it back the way it entered to exit the move, lol..

so effectivly there are another 4 hyperloops possible eh ? tell me what you think guys biggrin


Delete Topic

oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:i know what you mean (which is the important part, and your post is very clear which is also good) , however describing it as an inverted hyperloop is an abuse of terminoledgy i reckon... but that dosnt really matter, just add to the confusion a little bit ubbrollsmile

my defintion of inverted is when the pole of each poi are facing each other.

the pole is an imaginary line through your hand perpendicular to the plane the poi is spinning in.

defintion of hyperloop is a tangle with an inverted part.

an airwrap is a tangle with no inverted part.

in same direction moves the tangle forms in one outside plane and exits in the opposite one.

so the difference between your normal hyperloop and your inverted one is that the planes that it exits and enters on are swopped.

thats how it all makes sense to me anyway shrug

but i still think your post and video are nice and clear smile


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete

Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I reckon that this is buzzsaw hyperloop & right

side hyperloop transitions done nicely indeed.



But, there is small diffrence when moving

hyperloop in inverted plane:




Non-Https Image Link




(I recomend read Thory of plane unity)



Code:+1-1 Hyperloop



Where you continuosly transfer hyperloop

center between L(side) - Buzzsaw - R(side).





To get your wheel and buzzsaw hyperloops

clear.



Than you can start to think about an

inversion.



lightning,



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

Delete

gizmo2009


member
Location: south wales

Total posts: 146
Posted:hmm thanks oli,,you have given me somthing to ponder now lol but,

 Written by:

so the difference between your normal hyperloop and your inverted one is that the planes that it exits and enters on are swopped.




they dont swap tho do they?.. its entering on one side and exiting the same side it enters? hmm now im confused lol.. sorry about the abuse of terminology,,i dont really kno what to call it,, was thinking of calling it a inside out hyperloop..but unsure now,, smile

richee im sorry dude i really dont know what your on about umm


Delete

TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:just a quicky,

after we chatted about this the other day gizmo i realised that,

MOVE A) when you do the 'Outside > Inside' tangle (aka normal hyperloop) Backwards

MOVE B) it is the same as doing the 'Inside > Outside' tangle (aka inverted hyperloop) Forwards.

ie if i do MOVE B and turn 180 dgrees i'm at MOVE A.

Because of this I think the term 'inverted hyperloop' to be bad. Since the buzzsaw hyperloop is already a type of inversion.

If you think of a Tangle as being every variation of hyperloop or airwrap spinning round and turning. Then you just get on and off that tangle at different positions in time.

BUT ITS ALWAYS THE SAME TANGLE

i'll come back and read more soon, bit rushed today, hope all's well gizmo, keep up te good work,

matt


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

Delete

gizmo2009


member
Location: south wales

Total posts: 146
Posted:biggrin hope all is good on your side of the world matt,



ok, i see exactly what you mean, it is the exact same tangle etc,, but your not entering it just like turning 180 tho are ya?.. its like,,your manipulating the planes to a point where you get the effect of a 180 style airwrap or whatever,,but from the opposite side,,ya kno?..hmm this is confusing me alot now..?



im going to review my terminology,, i`ll be the first to admit that i kno sweet fa when it comes to names,, but ill av a gander thro some more threads me thinks,,:)..thanks for the input guys,,much apprieciated biggrin

EDITED_BY: gizmo2009 (1160249569)


Delete

TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:The difference is this : (refering to my last post)

MOVE A: i'm leading with my right hand and entering from the right hand side

MOVE B: i'm leading with my right hand and entering from the left hand side

smile

the terminology surrounding all this is kinda funky. It all ddates back to a time where we didn't really understand the relationship between weaves, inversions and tangles.

gotta run,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

Delete

gizmo2009


member
Location: south wales

Total posts: 146
Posted:ah ok,,think i need to read some more dude,, all tho i kinda kno what you mean now,, matt get over to the uk man, i need to spin with you lol :P

Delete

TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:It's an area i have hardly touched tho, thanks for the heads up a copupla weeks ago to have a play with all this. You helped me crystalise it in my head.

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

Delete

Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I can say inverted hypeloop is nothing more than
hyperloop, cause here I agree with Wibbler, that hyp-
erloop is kind of inversion itself.

lighting,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

Delete

gizmo2009


member
Location: south wales

Total posts: 146
Posted:yeh i get it now,,its the same thing eh??..



so its only the entry points that change?..



ok,, so let me say this then,, what is the defination of a hyperloop?..



is it, a tangle which enters on one side and exits on the opposing side?...



if so, then what is the move i show above?. cuz it enters and exits the same side,,:)

EDITED_BY: gizmo2009 (1161270267)


Delete

Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:Yes, exit poits too.



Hyperloop is changing center via loop, conical tangle.



You have tangle and untangle side. The tangled loop gives

a + before number of loop's added. The other side

gives -. Here you untangle.



Buzzsaw, we still talk about same direction alternate

hyperloop, is a zero point there, where you get the

hyperloop static, an orbital.



Now, you need to know how to siteswap it together.



Basic: +10-1 (R-tangle,orbital,L-untangle)

Advanced: +10+20-2 (R-tangle,orbital,R-tangle,orbital,L-untangle,L-untangle)



Where side is ment to be:



Code:Wheel plane



+ | 0 | -

+ | 0 | -

+ | 0 | -





----



You can't tangle and untangle at same side,

but spiral wrap. The move on the picture is

wrong, there have to be buzzsaw hyperloop.



The move is with 4 hands!



think butterfly,



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

Delete

gizmo2009


member
Location: south wales

Total posts: 146
Posted:thanks for the reply richee,,:)

 Written by:

You can't tangle and untangle at same side,



check my video footage very carefully again dude wink you may see something that surprises you :P


Delete

Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I did, but the "inverted" part inside buzzsaw

is not inverted, but inside, and that is

the difference.



Try the same move wall plane, to see what

I meen.



lightning,



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

Delete

TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Gizmo, when richee says

"you can't tangle and untangle on the same side"

he's right,

By doing the 'inside to outside' tangle you are going from 1 'side' to the other, ie 1 side of the nexus to the other.

However, (nb i've not watched your vid but we were chatting about this the other day) i think the confusion lies in your definition of the word 'Side'. You are using it in terms of 'Side' of your body.

But this is a pretty advanced move, and the only importance is which side of the nexus you are entering and exiting from.

You are effectively entering the tangle from the Right side of your body, using the LEFT side of the nexus. (or vise versa)

That's why they feel odd, and kinda 'inverted'. But like richee says, a tangle is a type of inversion.

oh yeah, richee it took me a while to figure this out, it makes a lot more sense if you put some kind of space inbetween the numbers:

Basic: +10-1 (R-tangle,orbital,L-untangle)
Advanced: +10+20-2 (R-tangle,orbital,R-tangle,orbital,L-untangle,L-untangle)

Reads like this:

Basic:
+1 0 -1
(R-tangle, orbital, L-untangle)

Advanced:
+1 0 +2 0 -2
(R-tangle, orbital, R-tangle, orbital, L-untangle, L-untangle)

(As a side note, Richee this is the same way of describing tangles as i use, however there comes a problem. You are using +1 and -1 to describe 1 twist and 1 untwist, this is great, but only for even numbered tangles, cos sometimes you change the leading poi which means you'd have eg +0.5 so sometimes i use +2 0 -2 where 2 = 2 half twists (ie 1 circle) )


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

Delete

gizmo2009


member
Location: south wales

Total posts: 146
Posted:nice post matt,,, confusing but yeh,,lol

please guys forget i said inverted,,the word dont matter to me, it was a word that i felt fitted into somehow explaining what i meant lol..

the main thing that im trying to get across here, is that it connects on my right side of my body, goes into buzzsaw then exits on the right side again,, honestly! im sure it does, unless my eyes decieve me when i do it lol.

matt you need to teach me how to read all that +1 0 -1 stuff,, is it like this?..

a normal inf hyperloop with one added twist and one taken back off would be...-1 0 +1 ??


Delete

TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:just quickly, a normal hyperloop that you keep spinning for a while in the buzzsaw plane is:

+1 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1


where:
+1 = adds a twist (enters you into the tangle eg on the right hand side)

0 = stays in buzzsaw plane and effectively doesn't add or substract twists

-1 = minus a twist (exits the tangle eg on the left hand side)


quote=gizmo "....is that it connects on my right side of my body"

have a real close look at it, which side of the NEXUS does the tangle enter from??? (nexus is the point where the poi are joined)

if it enters on the right and exits on the right then you are doing something very stange cos that should end up as

+1 0 ... 0 +1 = +2 ie twisted up and about to mess up wink

dunno what else to say, get over to my place and upload some nice videos.

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

Delete

Acciaio
SILVER Member since Jan 2006

Acciaio

Tangled into my spins


Total posts: 187
Posted:finally I have understand your notation!!!
Thanx matt!!! smile
I really enjoy it ...bt you can rite the ame notation fo r HL btterfly???there are some way o "add" and "subtrac" nexus to te HL butterfly using inside panes...but I think yu add half nexus...but I'm not sure...

Uhmmm something new to study on!

Acciaio devil


Delete


Similar Topics

Using the keywords [inverted hyperloop*] we found the following similar topics.
1. Learn > POI > Buzzsaws & variations > inverted antispin buzzsaw flower *help/resource
2. Learn > POI > Inversions > 3 beat inverted fountain *help/resource
3. Learn > POI > Inversions > 90 degree offset atomic inverted fountain *help/resource
4. Learn > POI > Inversions > inverted buzz saw *help/resource to remain in the center of your inverted weave and continue to barol roll ...
5. Learn > POI > Inversions > inverted corkscrew *help/resource

     Show more..