Page: 12
linda
member
Location: Toronto, Canada
Member Since: 13th May 2002
Total posts: 93
Posted:Valura, you were right ages ago, this should be a separate thread.
For late comers, the "COL Feedback thread" is full of accusations of plagiarism.
If you read through the thread, it's not clear if there is one case of plagarism or several. There is talk of "routines". Somewhere in there, it mentions the Philippines! But I checked both of their videos and they seem fine.
But near as I can tell, the first minute of the "Masara in Daiba" video from Japan is very similiar to the two person staff routine in the Flame Oz performance. However, I'm assuming that their double and quadruple staff thingys are original. They're certainly neat.
So, ALL THE FUSS IS ABOUT ONE MINUTE OF VIDEO! ubbidea
Correct me if I'm wrong. confused
How does FlameOz feel about this?
If it was an entire three minute video, I would think this was really, really wrong. However, it was only one minute, so I think it's wrong. I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't flip out if someone did it to me. Well... maybe a little tiny bit.
Of course you can judge for yourself. An outraged flying water muppet has posted a link to the flameoz routine on the bottom of page two of the "COL feedback thread". Thanks MCP, that's an amazing routine.
Malcolm, I hope you don't mind me trying to straighten this out.


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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Well, done the deed, watched the vid...including Masara in Daiba.



Omigoodness, don't worry bout a thing Dave and Di, the first bit is suuuch a rip off, but soggy as noodles and looks like they learned it 5 minutes before they went on. The rest of their routine is fine in a feral firefan/adequate doubles kinda way...at least there's not a predictable fire chain finale... oh, hang on....



But I can see why it is on COL.. the mad grin is indeed priceless, and it is the doof ambience rather than the moon- and-water so poetically prevalent elsewhere...



Otherwise than that my fave bits were:

Dragons Dream: Can't see the 'tricks', but the centred joy of the lovely solo spinner were exactly what the Instruments of the Now lads are chatting about.



I liked their bit too, despite falling about laughing... we indeed have a new (verbal) instrument.. firedance meets psychobabble = Pyrobabble!



Loved Arsn of course, Robert Bruce, Clare and everyone else who put in the smooth clear flows. I did find myself, like MCP, occasionally shouting at the screen.. usually things like *stand up straight boy* or *synchro means at the same time,puppies*



And overall I like COL 6:

I like the combination of full professionalism and people doing it for the love of it... that actually says something that I love about this scene around the world.. the (usual) lack of snobbishness and elitism.



Some clips may not be the most fancy tricks but you could show anywhere and they'd look good. Kfire for instance. So we are witnessing the beginnings of the production-based Fire Video.. bring on FTV...



But I booked an appointment at the optometrist when I'd watched half of Ninaruna before I realised that it was Luke and not Viv! Good thing I saw you this summer or I'd still wbe worried if you ever got out of that tidal cave alive! hug

ps I have posted this in two threads cos it is relevant to both... not spamming, promise!


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:gabe, the point was never whether dave and di needed to 'worry' about it though.

it was pointed out from the beginning that it was a poor imitation and, like i said, dave and di hardly ever perform the routine any more anyway (especially not in japan! wink ) so they never really had anything to 'worry' about.

but that wasn't the point - it is a *blatent* rip-off, its shamefully poor and to enter it into col is still totally unacceptable imo.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yep. I noticed this the second I saw the clip. Super lame. They probably got the routine from that video when it was posted on this site. Why would they ever think to submit it to CoL.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:mmm yep - that first minute is definitely a blatant ripoff of the Spin Cycle single staff routine.

so much quality spinning on this COL - hard to choose a favourite. some of the production was top notch too - I was like eek when I saw Fire Groove's vid.

Loved the musicality in most of the vids too - tis all about the flow smile

Pyroptix - loved your routine, slick as ever mateo! Good Effort. (good tune too).

I'll post more reviews n stuff when I watch it again.

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:So what happens now?
Will there be a burning at the stake? wink

*starts gathering kindling as per Bill Bailey's giant with voice and everything, even audience participation*


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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:Watched this quickly last night ( thanks Neon)

Pyroptix - loved your set - the tune was ace - me and duballstar do a doubles outine to that tune - nice smile

The quality of spinning is far better than any of the other COLs i think, however there was still tooo much blackness...... why do people insist on waiting for it to get pitch black before playing?

As for the rip off of spin cycle - made me laugh - due to its sloppyness and the cheesy grin pulled id be inclined to let it go, maybe they were not copying - maybe they were taking the piss wink

To be honest its something that shouldnt have been entered however id certanly see the funny side of it if it was me, if they were serious about copying this routine, well they did a bad job, either that or Dave and Di are just too damn good to copy.......

mmmmm i may just go and make a video to add to the scandel wink now all i need is another staffer that has a nice crouch..........thrust ubbangel

ubblol


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:smile





Just wondering if the complete flaming and insults directed towards the offending group are worth the venom...?



If it hasnt affected the Flameoz lads (cant imagine why it would, its hardly competition), and is part of what we all do (admittedly to a more exaggerated degree) - ie copying other peoples moves (Im pretty sure I stole the concept of flowers from Nick Woolsey - anyone else?! wink )...



Ok, perhaps it shouldnt win... but if those lads are reading these posts, I think they could well be put off taking part in this community any further, and isnt inclusiveness the point of COL and this forum?



Otherwise could we flame Meg for being an argumentative biatch with once-big hair? tongue





Yeah, yeah, ok, so its more hippy crap from me... but I just thought Id say it, since everyone else is throwing in their randomness.



Clare x

EDITED_BY: _Clare_ (1160646396)


Getting to the other side smile

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Well you know, when somebody does something wrong, but does it badly? Does that make it okay? Like gang rape for instance, is it okay if you do it badly?

Or if lots of people have done something bad, and you're also doing it, does that make it okay? Like being the last person to rape somebody in a gang rape? Surely it's okay because everybody else has done it?

Or like if something bad has happened, surely it's okay to gloss over the badness of it, so that the people who did it won't feel so stimatised? Like gang rape f'rinstance... Hopefully that'll also not stop other people doing the same bad thing, cos they won't see any negative consequences of it...

Or if somebody does something and the person it hurts doesn't really mind, does that make it okay? like...

okay, over the top I know. But it's pretty funny for me....


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Yep, I know its funny for you... but gang rape is really not like spinning stuff Meg spank

And neither is it the rape of an idea, because we all steal ideas and concepts in performance - its what you do with those ideas that matters...

I know they stole a part of a show... but what they did with it is not going to lead to any negative impact on the Flameoz lads - if anything, its a positive thing for them, as people are copying them, only not so well - leading to kudos and good publicity for Flameoz... its a compliment really.

Jesus meg, I hope no staffers around the world watch your videos, become inspired and try to do the same thing you do - otherwise youll be calling in the lawyers tongue

(Admittedly, the hair and costume will make the difference smile )


Getting to the other side smile

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Wooooah Meggy tongue
Little bit of a jump there.

My view on this is that it's fine-ish to rip off a routine, especially to use it as a building block for your own routine to start from.
However
They didn't just steal moves, they stole the entire movement and such like. AND they were using at what looked like a commercial gig AND they submitted it to an International video competition (which is frankly stupid IMO).
However, fluffy and hippy though Clare's sentiments are, she is correct in saying everyone's been pretty negative about the whole thing.

But overall, if someone had ripped off a Burnt Toast routine (not that they ever would mind you) and entered it without asking, I would be pretty p!ssed off. Whilst perhaps it's flattering, the fact thay they're making money from someone else's hard work is just wrong.

With regards to joining the community - I'm a little confused, because they must know FlameOz (or at least the video) to have ripped the routine, but then submitting it to HoP suggests they didn't realise how big FlameOz or HoP is (yet they still knew of the competition).

Odd


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:What I'm saying is: What they did was wrong (and yes, stupid) so why are you trying to mollycoddle it into not being so bad? What sort of example does that set? Hey it's fine to plagarise somebodies routine! You can still be part of the community and everything!

Happily I've never put a routine on hop that I use to EARN MY LIVING with. SO people can happily copy anything I do. The only routine I've put on hop they can freely copy if they want. It's not even like I have a style that people can copy. So they can pretty much take anything they like out of my videos and use it. A

I can't believe you would ever think I would call in lawyers. That's personally repellant to me.

durbs: "My view on this is that it's fine-ish to rip off a routine, especially to use it as a building block for your own routine to start from."

hell yeah to that... but usually I'll try and copy stuff from a routine with a different prop / or from outside the circus world, so it least has a veneer of originality...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol

Meg, I didnt think youd actually ever call in lawyers... I was just being sarcastic... sorrys. I really dont want you to take it too personally, I think you rock, but if youre going to be cutting about other people, you have to expect some back - to balance the scale smile

Im not saying it was right to copy the routine, and then enter that in a competition... but its been done, and with no lasting ill-effects, so why the out-of-proportion amount of venom? Im not mollycoddling... just speaking my mind, as you have done.

And yes, just because someone makes a mistake, does not mean they should be out of our community (its hardly a gang that any of us pick and choose!)

Finally, Flameoz, and any performance group, make their living on their reputation and experience... not a few moves from one routine (albeit a splendid routine)... one group doing something similar to another, in an entirely different country, most likely wont impact on the other.

Anyways meg, you know no-one else is as original as you, so dont set such high standards smile hug


Getting to the other side smile

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:No they shouldn't be permanently banned from the community. But if they joined I'd expect them to apologise to flame oz.

After all, what they've done is a permanent thing. COL is more widely distributed than the flameoz video, (considering many here hadn't seen it, in the 3 or so years it's been on the internet.) So now in the public eye, that routine "belongs" to them and anybody seeing flame oz might assume that they copied it... And that damage is done. There's no way they can undo that.

Plus doesn't our 'acceptance' of plagarism set a precedent? Doesn't it make other people think that it's fine? I don't want people to think that, so I won't accept it.

I'm not original. I'm a copy. I killed the original in a closely fought struggle on my 21st birthday. eek ubblol


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Glumon
Glumon

stranger
Location: Prague
Member Since: 8th Jul 2004
Total posts: 16
Posted:No that routine belongs to us :-D
:-D

I watched Flame oz video and Masara in Daiba and Staff routine is very simila , but not same .. both shows are complete different styles.

Lot of people here is too much impressed by FlameOz ..


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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:umm

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:yeah durbs, you're too impressed by flameoz.

I'm impressed by people that make unsubstantiated claims on the internet.

I'm so much cooler than you.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:now meg be fair, glumon is partially right. Althought they are identical routines they do have completely different styles, flame oz does it with class and Masara in Daiba does it without

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted:Meg.. I'm with you on this. If I ever see the guys I'll think of my good old teenage years listening to NWA and go gangsta on them..

Point your toes.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Ye-ah, fo' sho'

Stop playa hatin' on the rippin' G's.

Dey got style - it just ain't stylin'


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:please stop durbs. I feel slightly sick... footinmouth wink

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Comin' straight outta Melbourne,
Im a crazy futhermucka named Jon,
from the gang called Ucof,
Wi' mi' sticks n' mi' poi,
and a can of coke.

ubbrollsmile


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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:ubblol

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Page: 12

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