Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:So I learned something interesting today.

The pornography filters that hospitals, schools, and libraries use on their web browsers are usually set to "high".

At "low" a filter will filter out 87% of porn and 1% of legit medical websites. At "high" a filter will filter out 91% of porn (about 30% of the web is porn) and 24% of legit medical websites.

Discuss?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:only 30% is porn? I find that staggeringly low

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Twiggy
Twiggy

member
Location: Birmingham, UK
Member Since: 8th Jan 2006
Total posts: 162
Posted:Where can we find this other 70%?

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:Those numbers seem about right to me. I'm not sure what there is to talk about. The way the filter will work is to look at a number of things including the text of the page, the URL and with any luck, back links like google does for it's pagerank.

I would assume that medical websites would include words that these filters look for, but in the low option the other things like domain name and backlinks are given more priority.

Do you have a point? Do I?

shrug


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Uncollected thoughts:

In an ideal world, kids would be able to discuss sex & sexual health openly with their parents, or other responsible figures in their lives (note, not limited to adults). However it is not an ideal world.

But even in an ideal world, there is a place for the net in providing private information. Cos every young adult has a right to privacy as well as information.

Maybe hospitals, schools, and libraries are too scared of:

- being accused of superceding the role of the parents
- being accused of promoting "alternative" lifestyles and sexual practices (such terrible terrible wink things as sex before marriage and gay relationships)
- being accused of being too cavalier about that 4% more porn

Or maybe it is just because of the wording. High must be so much better for us than low.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I think if kids want to find it, they will. No matter the filter.
I have seen teens (my niece) get around filters like they were nothing.

I think the blocking of medical information is horrible and counter-productive to many assignments.

In my home, and even when we visit the library, I use the best filter of all (imo)....me.
In my son's school, it's not a big deal. It's a middle school and most of the kids have access to the net for research at home.
Now, when he goes to the high school, I may have a very different opinion.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:why are legit medical websites blocked? it it because of words used?

i remember in high school, my psychology teacher referred us to a website, but the website was blocked by the school's newtwork (about 5 sites he told us about were) because they mentioned sex.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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FoxInDocs
FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1848
Posted:yeah, the filters check for individual words, not the context. I had an email blocked at work once cuz it had the word "pink" in it too many times. I was working in IT at the time so i just turned to the guy that sat behind me who was the email-type-guy and asked him to unblock it for me, he went "it has the word pink in it too many times, that's disgusting sarah!"

umm... yeah, i'm not sure what that has to do with anything really, except for the sillyness of some of the filters that're out there.


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:As a side note, on German ebay you can't sell coffee tables as coffee tables because "Kaffetisch" contains the equivalent of "fetish" rolleyes

Foxindocs, can you look at the HoP intros? Only God knows how often the workd Pink shows up there ubblol


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:Filters mean jack shite to a person who can get around them.

Take FRD for example. His school has blocked HoP on several occasions with differant filers. He just keeps getting around them.


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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:I remember an old "Net Nanny" which blocked pictures based on thier colour content - too many skin tones must equal porn...
It didn't last too long though as it also bloked classical art pictures and there such things.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Seabadger
member

Member Since: 16th Aug 2006
Total posts: 25
Posted:Our school have taken to 'watching' us from another computer when we go online. (Although this is partly just to stop us listening to the radio during our IT lessons). From their point of view it works well and no one can do anything 'interesting' without them finding out.

When at home filters are just a mild inconvinience


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: Sym



I would assume that medical websites would include words that these filters look for, but in the low option the other things like domain name and backlinks are given more priority.




Exactly. But hospital and library administrators are quick to click on "high" because "more is better."

A website on STD's is going to include names of body parts that are involved in said STD's...and it's going to have pictures of such body parts. And if even one page at, say, www.med.umich.edu gets filtered, then the entire website does.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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_FSA_
_FSA_

now comes with skydiving license
Location: In your head. (Tasmania, Austr...
Member Since: 14th Jun 2005
Total posts: 1627
Posted:Our school uses a filter and it get's very irritating because many sites that we need for school work are blocked. I can understand the need to filter, but it's incredibly annoying when trying to find information.

Anyway, a lot of people get around the filters if they're desperate enough..


Proudly owned by the very cute Pineapple Pete. Owner of Noddy. Joint owner of Mr Majestik.

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Dangerousmind66
Member

Member Since: 30th May 2004
Total posts: 90
Posted:On the flip side, during my photo class, if we have free time, we search the net for photographers, and plenty of skin gets through that. Actually, most of the time when searching for a photographer who does nude work, it doesnt get filtered, however when searching for a widely known work of art, abstract paintings even, of nudes, they get filtered. Its infuriating.

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:its lazy design and programming, pretty much as simple as that

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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TotalEclipse
Member
Location: Nr Petersfield
Member Since: 26th Aug 2006
Total posts: 120
Posted:I remember that our filters in school were nigh-on useless - they'd block all sorts of things and even programs that we needed for our work. They installed the system at the end of yr 9, and two weeks into year 10 we'd discovered the responsible program and how to bypass it (it appeared in the task manager for about 15 seconds as the computer started up...was all a matter of timing). The more jumped up the ICT department got about this the more controlling they became, and the number of system compromises increased rather that slackened. It reached a head when the entire schools network login details, admins included, were hacked and printed off. They were only caught by chance because it took so long to print.

At college, however, there were no such heavy-handed barriers, and as such, no attempt to force the more important restrictions such as accessing login and password information. I think by placing obvious, limiting restrictions people will rail against it, but if they are reasonable and imply a level of trust, then people are more likely to respect them.

Lets face it: people don't like being nannied. And the more restrictive the nannying, the more people will try and break through.

It seems to me that you'll always lose some useful websites via a blocking system, but the more porn you block the more useful sites you block with it. I'd go for the low option setting and allow the more useful relevant websites though myself. 9% of porn is still a huge amount of porn, knowing the size of the web, and blocking 1 in 4 medical websites (prospective med student here...) is just a travesty. What a waste.


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spinningstarlet
spinningstarlet

enthusiast
Location: Bradford *rolls eyes*
Member Since: 29th Aug 2006
Total posts: 271
Posted:we had a variety of blocks at 6th form... but everyone knew how to get past them... it WAS the city technology college after all....

*psh*


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doctor_fandango
doctor_fandango

co-director of A.C.B.I.S.H.A.
Location: in the corner beside the filin...
Member Since: 19th Jul 2004
Total posts: 761
Posted:"only 30% is porn? I find that staggeringly low"

"Where can we find this other 70%?"

realy? do you guys spend alot of time on the internet? it has an amazing amouint of non-pornographic sites databases, forums, chats, e-mail, news sites, game sites... i could go on for a while... the same as in the real world. there are pon shops, but you dont go around all day remarking on how theyre everywhere.. do you?


There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1,

"in most of our friends we're the hippies. but we have hippie friends of our own.. its like a dog having its own pet" - H. Sinoquet 19-03-2005

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Yeah, but look at how many news agents are selling maganzines with pictures of scantily clad women these days?

Wheres the net nanny for the shops!! Thats what I want to know.


Love is the law.

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doctor_fandango
doctor_fandango

co-director of A.C.B.I.S.H.A.
Location: in the corner beside the filin...
Member Since: 19th Jul 2004
Total posts: 761
Posted:shop nanny... they're called shop assistants

There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1,

"in most of our friends we're the hippies. but we have hippie friends of our own.. its like a dog having its own pet" - H. Sinoquet 19-03-2005

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Groovy_Dream
Groovy_Dream

addict

Member Since: 26th May 2005
Total posts: 449
Posted:CTRL + ALT + DELETE >> end task. No more net nanny.

I don't really think it's an issue. Porn on websites is utter rubbish anyway, i don't know why anyone bothers looking at it.


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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted: Written by: doctor_fandango


"only 30% is porn? I find that staggeringly low"

"Where can we find this other 70%?"

realy? do you guys spend alot of time on the internet? it has an amazing amouint of non-pornographic sites databases, forums, chats, e-mail, news sites, game sites... i could go on for a while... the same as in the real world. there are pon shops, but you dont go around all day remarking on how theyre everywhere.. do you?



You've obviously never driven through Northern Pennsylvania then! biggrin


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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doctor_fandango
doctor_fandango

co-director of A.C.B.I.S.H.A.
Location: in the corner beside the filin...
Member Since: 19th Jul 2004
Total posts: 761
Posted:havent had the pleasure yet Pele. whats northern pennsylvania like?

There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1,

"in most of our friends we're the hippies. but we have hippie friends of our own.. its like a dog having its own pet" - H. Sinoquet 19-03-2005

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted: Written by: doctor_fandango


havent had the pleasure yet Pele. whats northern pennsylvania like?



A porn store every hour or so that you drive. It makes me comment every time I drive through. lol


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 10530
Posted: Written by: Aime


Filters mean jack shite to a person who can get around them.

Take FRD for example. His school has blocked HoP on several occasions with differant filers. He just keeps getting around them.



Word.

I'm at school right now, with access to the entirity of the internet. Which is how it should be, IMO. Not becuase I want to get at pr0n or whatever, but becuase censorship is BS. And being almost (I say almost... its like... a good 5/6 months off) 18, I pretty much know what's going on anyway.

A hopper once said to me "If you're old enough to do it, you're old enough to see it". And some of the categories here that are banned are just completley stupid.

Fair enough banning porn and violence for the sake of stopping our fragile little minds getting warped and stuff but there is some really trivial stuff being blocked at the mo.

Take this website for example. If I was to try and access this site without using a proxy or using firefox to bypass our filters entirely, I would be told that this site was banned under the premise that it coflicted with th school's policy on "communities". Which I think deserves a big WTF?

On the other hand, some filtering does make sense (to a certain degree). We can't check our own personal webmail, but this is 'cos we're provided with our own email adress for school, which we can even access from outside of college. Its also because webmail doesn't exactly have the best virus protection out there, and becuase we're on an intregrated network, a virus could cripple us. It happened once before.

But I'm no fan of internet censorship. Doc's mention of the legit medical sites being blocked is a little concerning. At one point, surfcontrol (the software we use here) had blocked both pro and anti choice abortion sites. I didn't get that, and complained like nothing else. Sites like that are still blocked, and it gets to me. People have a right to get to that kind of information.

All of this, of course, is in my humble opinion.


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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