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alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees


Posted:
Why the Police dont want to arrest people at the Carnival!





WE'D ALL GOT USED TO IT. The delighted face of a TV news reader (usually female) at the end of August Bank Holiday, coming on the screen and telling us, with an air of joy and triumph, what a happy, harmonious and successful event the Notting Hill Carnival had been. There were the usual shots of grinning policemen dancing with black women, the usual reports that there had been "very little trouble." It often seemed as if the presentation of this particular news had been carefully rehearsed. One could just imagine the producer beforehand: "No, Fiona, you must look happier - a really big smile! And your voice must sound as if it's conveying wonderful news. Another take - that's better!"



The mass media's reporting of the Carnival has, for years, been one of their major propaganda projects, all carefully orchestrated so as to convey to us peasants the message of what a perfect festival of fun and pleasure this is, and how it demonstrates the great benefits to Britain of the multi-racial society.



But this year - at long last - the truth came out. Glen Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, spilled the beans. In a statement on Radio 4 at the end of the Carnival, he said:-



In my experience, the level of reported crime is far below that which really happens, and the whole process is down-played for political reasons.



Police are actively discouraged from making arrests by senior officers for fear of sparking a riot situation, and I have seen serious criminal offences taking place while we are powerless to act... There is a significant criminal minority who exploit it in the full knowledge that the police will tread extremely lightly... The record of the Carnival is pretty appalling.



This, of course, was just what the police top brass, the news media and the political establishment did not want to hear. It came out because Police Federation leaders are men chosen by their colleagues from the ranks and are selected because they have the respect of ordinary coppers - as distinct from chief commissioners and constables, who are almost invariably political appointees, promoted because they are willing tools of the liberal establishment.



With the cat now out of the bag, the press was seized by a rare fit of honesty. Even the Sunday Times showed itself prepared to speak openly. Behind all the revelry, its reporter acknowledged, drugs were doing a roaring trade:-



There was no pretence about it, no attempt at disguise. Even if the police, chatting in shirtsleeves just 150 yards away, had been able to see them there was no chance of arrest.



The Standard reporters went on to describe another - yet more horrifying - occurrence. Speaking of a young Asian, Abdul Bhatti, heading home after visiting the Carnival, they related:-



A gang of youths was "steaming" the street. As many as 50 young men sprinted down the road together, punching, slashing and stealing before their victims knew what had happened. They snatched a gold chain from Bhatti's cousin, knocking him to the ground. Then they turned on Bhatti, punching, gouging and stamping as he fell.



Seconds later they were gone. Bhatti managed to get to his feet and stagger a few yards, then collapsed. He died later of brain stem injuries.



Ironically; the two murders taking place at the Carnival this year were both of ethnic-minority victims - the other one being of Greg Watson, a young Black, who was stabbed during an argument with some other Blacks. These were just the tips of an iceberg of crime and violence that has become commonplace while police are seemingly impotent to do anything about it. The Standard report continued: -



For the Metropolitan Police, the annual festival represents more than a policing challenge. With the ghost of Stephen Lawrence - the black teenager murdered by a gang of young white men who have never been convicted - seemingly stalking every decision made by senior officers, the celebration of the best of West Indian culture looms menacingly over Scotland Yard each summer.



Then speaking of the anger of ordinary police officers at the softly-softly policy adopted by their superiors, the report went on to say:-



Officers hate policing Notting Hill. They don't like walking past drug-smoking or other incidents. They can see thefts of purses and handbags but know they can never get into that crowd, arrest that person and get out again safely. They feel vulnerable. It would take next to nothing for an officer to be stabbed or shot.



Yes, shot! The Mail on Sunday was another paper highlighting the orgy of crime at the Carnival. Its reporter described one scene thus:-



There was no mistake: the man was holding a gun. The thump of the music was so loud it seemed to vibrate the kidneys, the air was thick with pungent smells and the crowd was boiling with excitement and alcohol. But as the policeman looked up at scaffolding at the edge of the crowd, he saw two figures clambering upwards. And one of them had a gun.



The Mail on Sunday then described how this was spotted by a constable. What followed was amazing:-



The police officer decided to act quickly. He told his superintendent he was going to move in and search the man on the scaffolding. He was going to need back-up.



To his astonishment, the senior officer forbade him. In the middle of this excitable crowd such a move would be " too dangerous." It might spark a riot.



Bravely, the constable stood his ground. He disobeyed the order and searched the suspect but the gun was gone, presumably passed to the other man, who had melted into the throng.



This extraordinary incident was just one example of the new "softly-softly" strategy dictated for this year's Notting Hill Carnival by Scotland Yard's politically correct policy advisers still paranoid over the charge of institutional racism levelled against them in the wake of the Stephen Lawrence debacle.



This was just one of many incidents where the police completely abdicated their responsibility to uphold the law. In another, a man making a home video caught a scene where rival gangs of Blacks were brawling. One shot showed two wielding knives. The area where this happened was just one of many where there was no police presence whatever. Though police photo technologymakes possible blow-ups which should easily enable the men to be identified, it is very unlikely that they will ever be brought to book.



The damning exposures of what happened at the Notting Hill Carnival, beginning with the forthright denunciations of Mr Smyth, opened a veritable Pandora's box on which the lid has been kept down for many years. Even the ultra-liberal The Independent newspaper, found this too much.









so they send police to essex so the piggies can crack some skulls



sterilised BBC video



sterilised BBC written report

alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees



Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
love to point out babylon hipocracy?

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: ravehead



so they send police to essex so the piggies can crack some skulls





i know you're not usually interested in unbiased discussion regarding 'babylon', but i think that statement is complete crap.



essex police are often drafted in on carnival weekend to help with crowd control - i seriously doubt that they then send the met out to essex to bust up a party.



and i'm sorry but whatever the police decide to do (including using physical force/violence against partygoers), no-one should have reacted with violence.



surround the sound system, make sure there's at least one person with a video camera and stage a non-violent protest.



if the police resort to unecessary violence, they will face the consequences.



turning up in riot gear/vans is ridiculous.

it looks like they went there expecting a violent reaction and they seem to have got one.



i'm not generally a fan of the police but simply suggesting that they instigated the violence is not enough for me to condemn what happened i'm afraid.



with a bunch of officers hurt, a load of party people hurt and a police car burnt out, its going to be hard to show the party people as having taken the moral high ground...



frown





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
i'd agree to some extent. having a few hundred police come along in roit gear isnt exactly saying "hi, the owner of the land doesnt want you here so would you please leave", more saying "you WILL move. NOW" if the police act like tough bastards you're only going to get the other people acting tough as well.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees


Posted:
thats the thing cole, we had people from all over there and with any community you will get a percentage that are willing to fight just because they can.


where was i during the riot??


i was by the only rig still playing with a few hundred other peoople doing just what you said, surrounding the rig, dancing and not causing any trouble that is why the police stormed it last. i was there to dance, to have fun not to cause aggrovation.

it annoys me the biased media reports, on the sunday i met a load of the local villagers on my way to get picked up and had a chat with some and they didn't even know the party was happening until the police started swarming. people looking out their window thinking WTF??

from the time i got there, it was all good. police had parked up at the entrances, as usual. a few walked round buying cups of tea from some of the stalls etc, people where happy for them to be their in that capacity and where even talking to them pollitley.

when it got dark and hundreds of police start flooding the site in full riot gear EVERYONE knew it would not end peacfully, so the fighters are generally going to be "up for it" from that point.

and please do not belive the media!

the truth behing the wrecked police car is..........

2 officers came roaring up at speed to one of the rigs, they bundle out so quickly they end up locking the keys inside it.
both officers at the same time coshed a window EACH just to get at the keys. as for being burnt out ubblol the seat got a small burn in it when someone chucked a burning branch inside ( stupid i know) the media makes out as though it was petrol bombed and totally destroyed....................... it didn't look like that when i walked past it suday morning as it was being loaded on a low loader

alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees


Posted:
 Written by: Mr Majestik


i'd agree to some extent. having a few hundred police come along in roit gear isnt exactly saying "hi, the owner of the land doesnt want you here so would you please leave", more saying "you WILL move. NOW" if the police act like tough bastards you're only going to get the other people acting tough as well.




yeah they wanted us to leave but how can you leave when you a fully surrounded but 500 riot copper with attack dogs that will not let you past and are more intent on bashing you round the head and arresting you for trying to leave

SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
Maybe one day people will stop whining when they get caught doing something illigal and told off.

Are you talking about Notting Hill now, or any other rave?

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: coleman




i know you're not usually interested in unbiased discussion regarding 'babylon'





rolleyes ubblol *titter*

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: BBC News

"Officers are well trained and equipped and used conflict resolution tactics before deploying their personal protective equipment, including CS spray and asps (batons). "Such use would be deployed proportionately and through necessity."

"Conflict resolution" "Proportionate" Why do both those bits make me go umm



 Written by: ibid

The statement added that some officers needed hospital treatment for injuries caused by broken bottles or other weapons, including scaffold bars.



Hmm, a complete lack of actual information as to the extent of injuries and an obvious attempt to make it sound like they were being assaulted by savages with deadly weapons. No mention of "severe" injury? If someone had really had a proper go at a copper with a scaffolding pole, you'd have one very seriously injured policeman, and Essex police would be bleating all over any media they could get hold of. Sounds like total rubbish attempting to cover for a heavy handed police action they knew was a proper cock up.



 Written by: Sym

Maybe one day people will stop whining when they get caught doing something illigal and told off.





Is that a joke eek If so it's not a very good one.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


DuncGOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom


Posted:
ubblol @ Sym. Dude was that a serious statement??

Let's relight this forum ubblove


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
 Written by: BBC News

"Officers are well trained and equipped and used conflict resolution tactics before deploying their personal protective equipment, including CS spray and asps (batons). "Such use would be deployed proportionately and through necessity."



yeah i dont see how you can call weapons like cs spray and batons as "conflict resolution tactics" ubblol sounds more like conflict tactics to me. or does the word 'resolution' mean that they intend on winning conflicts with their awesome tactics?

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Dunc


ubblol @ Sym. Dude was that a serious statement??



erm...yes... umm

confused

There seems to be loads of ravers moaning about how 'the pigs' stop them having fun all the time. But if they didn't break the law then the pigs wouldn't bother them. Thats the point of the law, you can do more or less anything apart from what it says you can't.

I've never been hit or hurt by a policeman, but then I don't have a habbet of trasspassing on someones land and taking pills with 100s of other people every weekend...

rolleyes ubbloco

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
I 100% agree with Sym. If people are going to trespass, get fuct up then they should be prepared to face the consequences.
However, perhaps those consequences shouldnt be getting beaten up by the police in riot gear.
And perhaps the police could handle the situation better.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


Sambo_FluxGOLD Member
Introverted
833 posts
Location: Norf London, United Kingdom


Posted:
ditto I'm with Jo on that one.

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?


UCOFSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
15,414 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
Yep, me too.
But I'll wait until im back in London before posting more, just in case anyone comes up with a decent counter-arguement, just so I can change sides wink

ubbrollsmile

colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
cheers for the clarification and for the first hand info ravehead hug





sym, the problem is that there are a great many people who have objections to the law in this instance.



according to many, the cjb is an unjust piece of legislation that gives police powers that are not 'proportionate' to the crimes it aims to prevent.



which is why you get ridiculous situations like the one seen this weekend:

riot police at a location where no riot is likely and complete apathy towards crime at a major, planned annual event.

and the reason for this apathy at the event they know is coming?

they don't want to risk instigating a riot there confused



i'm not defending the actions of the violent minority at the party, but i'm also not supporting the methods which the police choose to employ when attempting to halt this kind of activity.



for the record, i've never been hit or hurt by a policeman either and i do have a habit of going to 'illegal' outdoor parties shrug



trespass on land, by itself is not a criminal offence.



and additional to that, prevention of trespass is the responsibility of the land owner, not the police.





besides, you seem to be concentrating on the fact that the cjb prohibits impromptu free outdoor parties and missing the main point of the thread; which is to highlight the seemingly subjective enforcement of the law seen this weekend when comparing the almost non-existent police action at carnival with the over-zealous action exhibited at the great chesterford party...





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


DuncGOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom


Posted:
my reply changed to a simple ditto as Cole is far more eloquent and far far less sarcastic than I
EDITED_BY: Dunc (1156943365)

Let's relight this forum ubblove


87wt2gxq7veteran
1,502 posts
Location: Birmingham


Posted:
Yupyupyup.

Don't want to drag this thread off topic, but Sym's response appears to be predicated on the assumption that what is right equals what is legal.

And this equation is simply not true. We can start a different thread about that if anyone wants, but I think the un-truth of the statement "right=lawful and unlawful=wrong" is pretty self-evident on many different levels, and I can think of a whole bucketful of counterexamples without any difficulty.

But the point is: why crack down on a bunch of ravers who, until the cops showed up, weren't causing any trouble, and why did they told to ignore violent crime at the NHC?

Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Someone was remarked that the Oscar for 'Best Special Effects' should've been given to 'Notting Hill' for digitally erasing every black person from the Notting Hill neighbourhood rolleyes



Debating the priority and tactics of the police sadly seems almost pointless as this is just a case of enforcing the law not for the sake of the law but more for politics.



The government seem all-too keen to avoid a potiental re-enactment of the Rodney King LA riots which they could see happening again if the media were to catch a snippet of them 'roughing' up a black person at a predominantly black festival. Turning a blind eye at unlawful activities because the perpetrator was black is just as racist as the Rodney King incident as the police are still acting on the person's colour instead of the crime/supposed crime...



Another thing, if violence were to errupt, or if ANY CRIME was seen to take place at an event that is known for its happy and peaceful atmosphere showing unity between cultures, the image the of the event would be tainted and on a 'side note' the businesses that depend on the Carnival who lose out somewhat. PR and Money darling...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees


Posted:
i just find the hippocricy that is in the meda so infuriating.

it's all about pollitics and what makes tony blair look good in the papers.

news reports being twisted to side with the police when it was the police that created such a situation in the first place

jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: ravehead


what makes tony blair look good in the papers.




Tony looks good rocking out...


Non-Https Image Link

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


SeyeSILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK


Posted:
Ravehead - sorry I've been slack at replying to this stuff. I'm in the middle of moving house and time is at a premium.



Back to the topics at hand...



The police always go for one of two targets...



The easy ones e.g. standing outside clubs (or festivals) with sniffer dogs. They catch people who are of no danger to anyone else for a crime where the only potential victim is themself. This is simply done to add numbers to their arrest quotas.



OR



Something that they can use to make an example e.g. The rave in Essex. In these cases it is well known to the police that the case that they are dealing with is probably a waste of resources but they do it in the hope that it will put others off doing it in the future.



The thing that really annoys me is that violent crime, burglary and many other forms of crime that are seriously detrimental to our society end up getting side tracked as they are more difficult for the police to solve and they do not have the necessary resources. This could be remedied by a bit of a rethink on what they should be concentrating on.



The legal system in this country is a mess. It is prioritised by a series of knee jerk reactions to individual cases. There are government studies every year into various areas of the law and pretty much all of them come back saying that we are concentrating our efforts in the wrong places.



The law should be about protecting the rights and freedoms of every individual in this country. Instead we have a point scoring system where it is possible for the biggest problems to continue because the arrest figures are being propped up by petty insignificant rubbish.



And the record the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act (1994) makes any of our spinning meets on public land (parks for example) technically a crime.

It also makes it a crime to let 10 or more people dance in your own home!



If anyone would like to know more the full document is available (without recent ammendments) here...

https://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/Ukpga_19940033_en_1.htm

Sections 63 to 66 are the rave laws.



(The recent ammendments now make a gathering of 10 people a rave and make it punishable by 3 months in prison and a 2500 fine)



The bill has now been extended to vaguely cover an enormous amount of torrorist offences. Again - this technically makes a lot of everyday normal activity a criminal offence.
EDITED_BY: Seye (1156947130)

alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees


Posted:

Non-Https Image Link




it's all about the numbers, arrest figures, hospital waiting list and treatment quota's etc.



to me we live in a socioty ruled by an accountant ubblol





what gets me is while a was at the party in essex i walke some distance away from the sound systems to where the police where parked up and you couldn't hear a damd thing. by blocking entrances of course you'll get masses of cars parked up where ever they can it was just sencless the action the police took.



i've been to loads of partys where the police have only had an active pressence to monitor the event and if trouble did flair up i would expect floods of coppers to come in and shut it down but when no one has complained, the land owner has been paid off for the use of his land and the site is situated well enough away from houses for the police to come in like a swarm of angry bee's it's just moronic.



i want to know how much it cost the police to shut down the essex party and how much it costs to police NHC and other events

jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
you have to outdo me don't you Al!!! tongue

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
I don't get it. Why would it spark a riot, if police would go in and get someone with a gun, a knife, a burglar, rapist, murderer, attacker?

IMHO it shows how foolish and preoccupied some people are.

A carnival is not a political demonstration. Police there is mainly to protect, no?

Did you ever got caught up in (unprovoked) violence during a festival?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees


Posted:
ubblol hug sorry jo tongue

SeyeSILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK


Posted:
My dad heard about this and phoned me to say how ridiculous he thought it all was.

Apparently they shut down a section of motorway to stop people getting anywhere near.

Who needs reclaim the streets when the authorities are voluntarily shutting down roads for us biggrin

Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
I have FireTom. At Leeds festival. I never came across the police as other areas were worse than where I was situated.

As I said in a previous post Notting Hill Carnival is a cultural festival where whites, blacks (and others) can come together and be merry. So they want to be VERY careful were race-relations are concerned...

They don't want to risk undermining the credibility of the police force and the government were they to arrest/rough up a black man innocent or not and have the man accuse them of racism and risk word of mouth escalating into a riot. To them its not worth it shrug

(they wouldn't have to worry about that now, since this expos might just do that anyway)

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
 Written by: FireTom


I don't get it. Why would it spark a riot, if police would go in and get someone with a gun, a knife, a burglar, rapist, murderer, attacker?




Because that's how it is here. (London here.)

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


alien_oddityCarpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees


Posted:
that's very true newgabe, basicly police have a hard time stopping and searching people of ethnic origin because odds are they will play the race card, the papers get wind of it and inflame the situation.

they don't want a repeat of the marsh farm riots or something akin to the L.A. riots. yet it seems the police are more than willing to put stop to a small private party in the middle of noware that is not causing any distress to local people.

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