SpArKiE
SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 218
Posted:this is a long blab... but i need to get it off my chest... and i hope sum1 can give me sum insight on my problems and sum suggestions or opinions.

oki. just to fill u in quickly...

i'm a 2nd year apprentice printer (only in my 2nd month of my 2nd year) anyway... i have an abusive supervisor... enough said...

now... my problem... i have tried to deal with it. been to the head of my department and to my boss and they basically said the same thing "yeah thats gary move on."

as i am a female in a male oriantated (sp?) job i cop a few jokes and a bit of shit- normally all in fun... u know how it is... the guys over the other side (we have 2 departments.. the 2nd one is known as 'the other side') are awesome fellas and i am their sister bascially... so i think nuffin of their comments.

but when its my supervisor who hates me and thinks i cant do my job (which i can very well) abuses me to the point i am crying- i dont take it as a joke.

this has been going on since i started my apprenticeship.. i thought "meh it'll die down. the whole novelty will pass over" did it? no. it got worse.

as i said i have talked both to the head of my department and my boss... and they have said "yeah thats gary he wont change- u'll just have to make do" and i think to myself "hey thats not right... apprentices are welcome to the same respect as the tradesmen on the floor"

anyway....

when i 1st started last year everytime i got sumfin wrong he would yell at me. was i not only a begginer? was i not just starting to learn? he reduced me to tears at least once or twice a week. i was just starting to get a hold of my mental stability again (i had a mental shutdown late 2001/early 2002) and he comes along big mean gary and farks it for me.

it took me a while to get over this and realise "you are bigger than this cass... you can beat him" so i wouldnt burst into tears infront of him. i had held it for so long. about 8mths. and today i snapped.

ok- i have a bit of stress going on in my life now... trying to get a car loan, moving out, saving money... etc... so the last thing i needed today was gary yelling at me. even after i had told him i had personal problems happening- things that u cant just shove outta ya head to go to work- he still got on my case.

and all this over me 1stly not "hearing" what he said- which i dont even think he said. he said "go put the red in the machine and run this job" i did. i saw my job and job bag and it said colour 032... so thats what i put in. hes come along and yelled at me cos i had put the wrong colour in bcos thats what it said on the job and job bag! and dont u normally trust them??? so he blew up ME for the mistakes. next... i dunno what happened next- there were so many blow offs at me for things i either didnt know- or just didnt do. but it ended up with him yelling at me saying "get with the farking program cass...get with it. i dont care about your outside life. you are here to work... get with the farking program" this is where i cracked.. how could i not??? he walked away and chucked a lil hissy fit kicking and throwing shit so i screamed back at him "im a farking 2nd year apprentice!!! if you expect me to know everything then your mistaken!" and i got back to my machine and tried to hide my tears from my friend over the other side who did end up noticing.

what the hell am i meant to do when i have a head and boss who say basically get over it??? i am entitled to rights... to be treated like a human. not a dog. which is what i feel like.

i cant do anything at work without him watchin my every move- even at lunch in my own time! hes a hypocrit (eg- uses his mobile all day then i even go near mine and he says "cass... put the farkin fone down and get back to work").

if anyone is still reading this message i thank you for listening to my boring story and do you have anything for me???

i just dunno what to do. i am gunna ring my training ppl cos they have sum kinda counsellours (sp?) or sumfin who help with this. other than that im stuck. unless i find another printing company willing to take me on.

~Sparkie~

[ 20. February 2003, 20:51: Message edited by: SpArKiE ]


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:that sucks, i dont know how you have put up with those bastards for so long, i think your right as to seek help from your training organisers.
people who have worked in industries have pretty strong working relationships with each other, and tend to dismiss things like you situation as being down to the way they have perseived the accused to be in person, yeah you goto work, have a laugh with your workmates, they have a little clique [sp?] going, i know the printing industry from experience and it certainly is a mans world.
i wish you all the luck and love in the world i have to offer and hope you get your problems resolved.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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_Stix_
_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land
Member Since: 15th Feb 2002
Total posts: 2419
Posted:Oh hun... I'm not really sure what to say here - but I think you aer doing the right thing callin the training people - they will ba able to offer help and advise (hopefully) But what I've learnt in the past is that never let anyone, anyone spoil your chances. I left one job because of a girl who used to use her body size to intimidate me - I was in fear of being beaten up in my own work place.. she also never let me finish my sentances and dismissed any idea that I came up with.. She really did scare me.. so after long chats with the sales manager and the CEO (where is was pointed out by the CEO that she was a bully and never let me speak - ha ha!) I still decided to leave for pastures new.. I regret not sticking it out as it turned out that she was sacked a few months after.. I could still be working for a wonderful childrens charity... ho hum

In the mean time darling..

Don't let the bastards grind you down!! You have strenght in us...


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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SpArKiE
SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 218
Posted:there are only a few things keeping me at the factory i am at...

1) my other supervisor. he is a darling. he is the best anyone could ever ask for.

2) a couple of friends i've made.

3) to piss off gary more

yelling at him today was a very big step for me as i am normally a very shy person. i have a fear of him going to blab to sum1 higher up and having me sacked. which i wouldnt mind. but i dont want that. so i have never lashed out just incase. but fuck it right? i do have rights. i am human! god damnit.

all the other printers on the other side all wanna help but they say "what can we do?" which is true. really there is nothing.

but the thing that makes this prick worse (i forgot to mention it in my above post about how much of an asshole he is) and BRAGS about yelling at me!!! my friend in the darkroom is the ears of the factory. and as im good friends with him he tells me everything that is goin on... including when gary comes in and brags about upsetting me or whatever he did.

i swear he has sum evil plan. just dunno what it is.

anyone know a good negativity spell to send all the negativity back to its source???!!! im willing to try anything!

and i thank you guys for being supportive. no1 just really understands what i go thru which makes it hard for me. they just nod and say "aww thats no good" and other kinds of sympathy. im just sick of it.

but thanks all. i need to go twirl. get it outta my system. but its late. and kinda raining outside so there goes that idea

you are truly good friends.
(just wish i could meet more than 3 of yas!!! yes thats how many hoppers ive met. sad i know.)


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Jeez, sounds roungh.
If I were you, which I'm not, I'd just make it official. If the guy's this much of an arse, you could try something big like harrasment or unfair treatment and get him in sh!t. No reason not to, especially as this is what he's doing. If other people have witnessed this and are of the same opinion of him, get the wanker fired...

Why should you tolerate him and lose a job when he's the one being the dick and breaking the rules?


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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_Stix_
_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land
Member Since: 15th Feb 2002
Total posts: 2419
Posted:naa sweets - go spin in the rain.. if you got tunes - turn em up loud.. nothing better than spinnin in the rain - washes away all the tension.. inless it's REALLY cold rain - then it isn't any fun..

oh and the guys at work will soon get bored of Gary - it sounds like he needs some sort of ego boost... maybe he's got a small dick - after all what type of secure man would go around braggin that he's been picking on a girl? Next time ask him if he feels superior after he's made you feel bad - as it seems it's the only way he can.. he must be shit in bed.. see his face then - if he gets personal - you bite him back..

I had problems with a guy a few years ago - always argueing with me.. turned out that I found out later that he actually held a bit of a flame for me and he was so horrible coz I turned him down - deflated his ego.. made him feel small.. so he gave me shit.. go figure!


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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tadpole
enthusiast
Location: Harare, Zimbabwe
Member Since: 19th Nov 2002
Total posts: 200
Posted:Gary sounds like a really nice guy, full of love and compassion.

Put that #32 ink into his tea, or better yet, a couple of shrooms!

Seriously, I would go with Durbs - make it official and get his ass fired.

Best of luck, whatever you decide...


Don't worry, be happy...

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tadpole
enthusiast
Location: Harare, Zimbabwe
Member Since: 19th Nov 2002
Total posts: 200
Posted:Just to clarify :

Put the shrooms in his tea, not in the ink.



Don't worry, be happy...

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:This is my advice. I'm not saying it's good advice (in fact it may be bad), it's only the way I see it and what I'd do to deal with it.

This guy is a bully. You have got to do something about this. Sounds like you feel a bit helpless though. As a child I was bullied real bad and know exactly how bad it can be. Tis only once you pull out of it and stand up for yourself that you realise how difficult it would be for someone to put you such a position again.

As far as I can see you either have to make him stop yourself or make someone else do it.

If you were going to do it yourself you could use phrases like. "do you think your better than me?" "Are you a sexist" "were you bullied as a child" "Do you fancy me?" tell him you will not accept his abuse anymore, don't threaten him directly but let him know that you won't take his poo anymore. Even if they try give you hassle for giving him grief you just give the reason why and even if they dismissed you surely you'd have great grounds for unfair dismissal. WHat's there to lose??

If you try get someone else to make him stop it might be your other supervisor or your training people you mentioned. Let them know exactly how upset you are. I can't imagine that you enjoy work when this guys about.

If it was me though I'd get someone you know that he doesn't know to have a word with him and ask him if they could perhaps help him with the problem he seems to be having with you. Point out that it is in his interest to sort it out before a real problem develops.

I'll be over later in the year, so if it's still a problem then. Give me his address.

Big love to you , do not accept this. Even if you end up leaving your job kick up a huge storm first.


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:If he is extra harsh (and from the bosses comments he probably is) I also think you should elevate the issue to those who can help.

I want to point out something as an outsider. Personal problems have to be let at the door. They can't be allowed to interfere with important work. It's not like you're sweeping the floor. If you make a mistake you can cost them money.

Second, he said red. If you put in this 032 and it was blue, then you should have noticed and brought it to his attention. Even a 2nd year should know that. If it is harder to notice than that, use a paper trail to pin the blame on him. How do you track orders and requests? If it is paper or email then keep it all. If it is verbal then that's harder but keep track of his words. There's always accountability.

My final note. Saying things like "I'm a 2nd year and if you expect me to..." is a no no. Being in your 2nd year you should know a lot. 12 months is a lot of training time. How long is the apprenticeship with a printer? If it's only 2 full years then you should know all the stuff with mastering of techniques to go.

Closing thoughts. Have you considered yelling back? Maybe he's partially deaf. Maybe that's how he communicates. When he yells, yell back. When he says "I SAID PUT IN THE RED!" You say "I RAN THE JOB AS IT WAS LABELED. THE JOB AND BAG MATCHED. IT'S NOT MY FAULT THEY WERE MIS LABELED. NOW BACK OFF AND HELP ME FIX IT!"

Good luck and keep us posted.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted::does Gary have an internal or personal email address? one that you would like to disclose on the quiet.:
i have a 10 annonymous mail serves untraceable with any message you wish, dispenses 2000 emails a min . sure he would get tired of spite.

maybe thats not the way to deal with it, but sure good way of getting his attention.
ignore me, this subject is making me vindictive.

love and hugs
pk


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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danaeefly
member
Location: planet eart
Member Since: 20th Feb 2003
Total posts: 9
Posted:Hi I'm sorry for you!!!!
this gary it's a fucking idiot so treat him like this take the pis of him but in a way that he cannot make you probleme.I had some collegue like this and i use this methode for example if he ask you something in a bad way or tel you something answer him with your falsest smille and exagerest nice word .like this he will see that you take the piss of him but he canot do anything against you. And imagin him in the toilet when you look et him . never ever crye in front of him he will be to happy.
take that like a game and trie to fuck him in his back.
Find his home number phone and when is working make a friend of you call home and ask for him to his wife with a bich voice.
better to be fucker than fucked!!!!

big hug for you


all you need is love

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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:Wow. Okay, danaeefly, that was an incredibly difficult post to read through. Please re-read what you type before hitting the "Add Reply" button.
What does "taking the piss of him" mean?

I am not sure where you are from so it is possible that this is common speach for you. But it has been asked to try to type so others can easily understand.
(The planet we live on is spelled "Earth" in English.)

I want to mention that I think it is a bad idea to do something illegal towards this man. He is not doing anything illegal first. He is just mean. (This paragraph is aimed at the suggesters of illegal activities, not at SpArKiE.)

Again, good luck SpArKiE. It is tough working with someone that you do not get along with. I hope things work out for the best.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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BlackFireJack
member
Location: Bergen , Norway
Member Since: 16th Dec 2002
Total posts: 167
Posted:Hi SpArKiE ...sorry to hear about the crap he put's you through...

Put his picture, work-address, and 200$ bill in a closed envelope....send it to me and your troubles will soon be over....

what you wrote pissed me of...cause my sister went through the almost the same thing 2 years ago....she was an apprentice, and was harrazed by a kolleuge (?)..or more an attempt on sexual harrazment....reported it to her boss and he said the same that your boss said...
Now my sister told me about it to get it of her chest...and then said that she wanted to deal with it herself...something I had to respect (was not easy)...but nothing was done by anyone in the firm or at the apprentice-office,so it all ended up with she going to another firm...

Being harrazed at work is terrible and in my view NOT an option...if you cant make them understad how serious the situation are then I dont know what kind of advise to give you....but working with a dick like that around you should not happen....See if there is a possibility to finish your appreenticeship in another firm.....or even better get fellow workers to back you up and make the dick understand what is accepted and what is not....
sad that anyone should have to fight things like this in the workplace....

In my sisters case ...she is over it but I'm not...the day I find out who the guy is, I'm not a violent man but, he wont be pretty again if he ever was......

hope it work out Sparkie...your not the only one with this problem...

Jack.......Big brother for hire


I like Fire.. :)

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Babe, if you feel you are being harassed, there are a few things you can do. Firstly write down exactly what has happened and when, dates, times exact quotes etc. Whilst PK is right, you may be partially responsible in the error made, his handling of the situation is not correct, and his ungoing treatment of you (personal put downs, etc) could certainly give you grounds.

The next thing is that you should be able to approach HR in your organisation confidentially (if there is no such thing as HR in this organisation, it puts you in a more difficult position). Put forward your statements about what has happened, and explain that you want to get things sorted out so that you can continue working. You should not have to handle this alone. (To be honest, if your boss has noticed this, or had a complaint from you and not taken action on it he is liable as well, in legal terms. He may not realise it, but just by ignoring it he could be found personally responsible for condoning the harassment in a court of law, especially when not ignoring it is as simple as picking up the phone and calling HR).

If you do not have a HR dept, but are a member of a union, they should be able to provide you with similar confidential advice. Remember that unions have been sued for "supporting" one member over another. You have paid your fees and you have a right to obtain advice from them, however so does your supervisor if he is a member of the same union.

It makes me very angry that you are expected to handle this on your own. Sorry, but no. Get in touch with HR/training, they are the ones who have studied long hard years to deal with these sort of situations.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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SpArKiE
SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 218
Posted:omg u guys are soo sweet.. even if the ideas you are suggesting are evil... but i like them!

my mum told me to put salt in his coffee (cos i make it) instead of sugar cos it'll give him the shits... im seriously thinkin of that. hehe.

ok i have read so many posts i cant member who said what but i shall just comment on what was said...

1stly- my apprenticeship is 4yrs long. so i am still only 1/4 of the way thru... and i have had shitty training so i dont know all that much. i know basics. but i do know more than most 2nd yrs.

2ndly- bout the 032 and 485 ink colours. they are both red. they look basically the same. just one is a tint lighter than the other. yes mebbe a part of my mistake cos it was an internal job which i have printed many times- but if you saw how many jobs i print you would understand how easily i forgot the colour of the damn ink. and when the job and job bag both say 032... u put 032 in the damn machine.

and about my personal probs... i know i shouldnt take them to work- but everyone else does (ok no reason for me to do it... just noting). gary chucks mentals everyday cos of his home loan or sumfin. and completly ruins the peaceful mood we got goin, if its going.
now- the jobs i print- cos im still only learning- are noramlly one or 2 colours... and only small jobs on non expensive paper. it doesnt cost all that much to fix it if i ruin a job cos of problems... but if any1 knows about printing... ok- want the low down on gary's printing? he makes ready, gets the job checked. goes back to his machine... starts running- at 8000 (top speed for his machine) and walks away. then theres me that afternoon or next day packing the job spending 3/4 of the time picking out duds (catchup, hickies, and a shitload of set off!). then he has to go back and reprint half the job to make up for it. he costs the company more money than i do.

and umm... whats a HR Rozi??? i cant figure it out... probly called sumfin else here.

and for all the ppl who asked bout fone number and addy- i have his mobile... that count? oh and his email. hehe.

right now i cant think of anything else... except i had another run in with him today. over me using my mobile for a minute to ring home damnit.

he uses his fone at least once every half hour. ok so thats bout 16 times a day... even more! and he yelled at me for using my fone for a minute to ring my mother! completly went off! i didnt yell back today. i just didnt have the energy. but i felt like saying "hey u set the example and i will follow. practice what you preach." well i did kinda mumble that. but... for some reason i chickened out. which i am kicking myself for now. but seriously where does this guy get off??? blah blah blah. stood there for a minute yelling bout how i cant use my fone during work hours. only lunch. puh-lease. when your supervisor uses his all day you think its ok for 1 minute. but no... hes a tradesman. they must have special rules for themselves. anyway not liek i was doing anything... i was waiting for my next job to be cut up so i could put it on the press.

i tried to ring my training ppl this arvo... but they were shut by the time i got onto them. i'll do it at work tomorrow or i wont get a hold of them till monday. too far away. actually i can email... but to get the real good story (not jsut the shortened one) i need to talk...

arg this has become so difficult.

but i did hear today he is lookin for a new job. GOOD! AND I HOPE ITS ME WHO PISSED HIM OFF!!!!

muhehehe

love yas all for your support and help
~Sparkie~

[ 20. February 2003, 20:58: Message edited by: SpArKiE ]


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

Delete

Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:HR stands for Human Resources. It is sometimes known as Personnel, although it sounds like from what you are saying the training department fits that role. They take care of:

hiring and firingpayrollAny issues like this
They should have a policy in place for dealing with this sort of situation. Ask them about it. If they do, I would suggest that your supervisor's boss hasn't followed it, and could be in big trouble.

All jokes aside, even the fun ones about torturing your boss, this is a very serious situation. If it becomes worse, you could lose your job over some assertion he makes. If it just stays as it is, you could really develop some issues re self esteem.

These type of people pick on the person they think is the least powerful, the most vulnerable. It is all well and good to say "stand up for yourself", but once it happens it is very hard to stop. It also sounds like no one else there has the guts to stand up to him, and are just breathing a sigh of relief that its not them.

Go get some help to sort it out


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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rajiv_sinhain
member
Location: india
Member Since: 15th Jan 2003
Total posts: 18
Posted:HI BABE, HEAVEN HAS GIVEN YOU SO MANY GREAT THINGS GOOD BAD, UGLY, BEAUTIFUL, AND ABOVE ALL INTELLIGENCE. USE YOUR INTELLIGENCE PROPERLY ON RIGHT TIME, RIGHT PLACEWITH GUTTS AND WITTS.AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE YOURSELF.
RAJIV_SINHAIN


YOUSELF .


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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:rozi one of your above posts quoted me, it wasnt me. but i agree with the coments. so now the quote stands.
PWB right on, know its not the way to go, but its not devastating now isit.

I can send 36,000 emails in 5 seconds if you realy want me to.... just gimme details.

also if you know what phone network he's on, goto a shop and says he is harrasing you via his mobile and they can cut his sim card off i know cos my mates gurl runs a vodafone shop

be kewl, get revenge.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:serves me right for posting in anger!!!

Sorry to PWB, for attributing your wisdom to others, and thanks to PK for saving my ass (although what you would want with a donkey, I don't know)


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Delete

PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:i can think of many reasons and things i would want you for

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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SpArKiE
SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 218
Posted:*deep breath*

i have come to the conclusion that Gary is a skitso!

Friday- he couldnt say a bad thing to me! he was all laughs and smiles!!! WTF! This really gets me.

ummm Rozi i dont have a HR person at work... really thats my boss who i've already had words too.

i gotta ring my training ppl and talk to them. i'll tell ya what happens after that.

to all!

~SpArKiE~


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:sparkie, join the union as soon as possible. if you need help working out which union, drop me a pm, I'm happy to help.

ade


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SpArKiE
SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 218
Posted:whats the gunna do? (joinin the union that is)
and doesnt it cost mulahs?
tis half the reason i havent joined. i aint been filled in on these details. but if it'll stop this prick im up for it!!!


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

Delete

PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:unions are actually good things, they may cost you a few dollars of you wages a week, but if it comes down to situations like this one then you'd have been better off being a member, they have people to talk to for advice and such and can also sort out your situation legally and have power as high as the directors of that company in question. they are there for the employee's and fight for employee's rights. it would be worth you checking it out belive me.
the problems may get sorted a whole lot better that way.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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SpArKiE
SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 218
Posted:hmmm i may just do that...

tomorrow...

cos now its bed time...

thanks for the info dude!!


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

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4. Forums > outside opinion [1 reply]
5. Forums > poi decisions personal opinions please [21 replies]

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