Forums > Social Chat > Women are often more sexist than Men

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thingeymajigmember
43 posts
Location: London


Posted:
Thought I'd start this contraversial topic off to see what people think!

The thing is, that from a personal view I think that
the biggest obstruction to sex-equal opportunities is women.(Hetero-sexual women in particular, as cannot speak for homo-sexuals as am not one myself)

I beleive that men are in general far wider accepted in all situations, be it performance, work, social situations, aesthetics etc.
I feel that this is because men have a certain comradery that women lack, but also that women are more accepting of men than they are other women.

I would like to be accepted in anything I do as a woman, but still find myself not being accepting to other women anyway. I feel like a total hypocrite.

I think it comes down to, that men accept other men, and women shun other women through competition/jealousy. I think it is all fudamentally biological, but surely as reasoning humans (rather than animals) we can rise above instinctual behaviour.

So what do you reckon? Do think there is a future for feminism when secretly all women judge each other far harsher than they judge men?

TheTinyManicOne
xx

....so does it come with a hat?


PK_BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,996 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
ladies rate one another more harsly because of one simple reason, they read too much crap in magazines and other media.

:looks at life, i see pretty flowers, i see ugly flowers but i love life so none of this matters:

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.


thingeymajigmember
43 posts
Location: London


Posted:
Yeah, but not just looks wise, ability wise too.

Plus what about societies where there is less access to media, e.g. Certain areas of Africa, China, Papua New Guinea etc. Do you not think they hold the same attitudes to women?

....so does it come with a hat?


PK_BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,996 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
i get your point, "but you could take each country and make a thread on it!", i think if we talk on an average of who we are and where were all from and our knowledge gained through our lives living amongst these people in this manic world, then we stand to make it a litte more comfortable listening to each other and sharing thoughts.

so yeah, i agree that it isnt just looks.
women are getting more stronger and more powerful, just look what they have achieved in the past 100 years or so. good on'em.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.


Astarmember
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.


Posted:
Sort of off topic but ill go for it anyways.

A profesional woman can make public statements that are very disparging towards men and very sexist and they are actually encouraged and cheered on by women and many men.

If a man does that his profesional image is gone.

This really pisses me off. I hate large portions of the feminist movement and like other portions of it.

colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
my boss is a woman and so are two of my co-workers. there is a very good working relationship between all three of them but there is also a distinct age and experience gap between each of them.

like the old cliche of the disgruntled, middle-aged man overlooked for promotion resenting his two-years-out-of-university boss, i have seen a few women in my company getting an 'it should have been me' type attitude towards their female coworkers.

whereas men seem to accept that older or even just similarly experienced people often end up with better positions than them often based on just minor differences in their careers, many women seem to resent another women being their superior, especially if their experience is comparable.

these opinions are only based on what i have seen in my short time in the working world. in my current office, there is fortunately a lot of professional respect (there are lots of women lawyers as well as men here) and hopefully this is the way things are going elsewhere.

finally, if women demand high standards of each other, does this mean maybe that they will feel obliged to perform above and beyond the expectations of a man in a similar position?
in the long run, this may be a good thing...?

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
I disagree. I think it's easier to SEE when women are being sexist because it stands out. How many times do women get harassed by men just walking down the street? And yet if a woman harassed a guy, it would make the evening news.

I also happen to work in a female dominated industry (education)... there are the same "boys club" type mentality that exists in major corporations but in reverse. The women trust each other more. They change their conversations when I'm around. They do stuff exclusive of men. I'm not whining because I know it goes both ways.

I do think we notice female sexism more because it is less accepted.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Astarmember
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.


Posted:
How do you figure it is less accepted?

Ms. X of X company makes open comments in public about how men are stupid violent pigs with no more motivation for their actions then the basic need to reproduce.

Mr. Y of Y company makes similar comments about how women are sluts that are only good for sex and don't have anymore intelligence then a door post.

Mr. Y has destroyed his credibility and reputation and Ms. X is seen as a strong and modern women who is at the forefront of the feminist movement.

Astarmember
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.


Posted:
From what I have seen male sexism towards women are only really accepted by members of the boys club.

Saying it is accepted by society as a whole is like saying society accepts racism because KKK members tolerate racism within the ranks of the KKK.

thingeymajigmember
43 posts
Location: London


Posted:
That's a really good point. The point I was getting at originally was that only 'boys club' members are really sexist towards women, whereas women on the whole seem to be quite a lot more judgemental of each other, and more accepting of men.

....so does it come with a hat?


SmokyDavySILVER Member
Do my poi look too small in this?
394 posts
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Posted:
I remember reading an article on how women in the ancient caveman days would gossip about the other women because that meant they'd be more likely to get the alpha male to have sex with them instead.

Of course, there's no way that they could prove this anyway, but it sounds pretty interesting.

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
I am going to soooooo disagree here! As a woman in a VERY competitive field, I compete against men and women for stage time. If I don't get a part it is because someone was better than me and I need to polish up, not because s/he offered favors to a director.
Look at the rates of violence in high schools? It is predominately male to male. Men are just as apt to be judgemental and try to hold one another back as they are to support one another. It is not so seperate as all that.

We live in a competitive culture...we compete to be first in line at the store, the movies, the bar, the light on the road. We compete for jobs, for significant others, for whatever...whether or not you feel like a competitor.
We compete in sporting events and relish those stupid reality shows.

Men are more open about the competitiveness. Historically, that is fine. Men have always been this way. Women however have been taught and expected to be demure and obedient since the dawn of time. That has changed slowly over the past 100 years. It isn't a male/female thing. It is human nature to be competitive, women are finally just being vocal about it. Yet I will agree, when things don't go our way, some women cry harrassment, inequality, whatever instead of moving on. I have seen men do that same thing. In my eyes, they didn't deserve whatever they were trying to get then anyway. Move on and look for something better I say.

I think extreme feminists are full of hot air. Women are not "owed" anything, and nowadays we are not nearly as held back as say 40 years ago. Women, in my opinion, should earn the right on any spot just as any man should. Queen Elisabeth stood up in a man's world and owned it! Joan of Arc is a Saint for doing so. They faced the critical judgements of everyone! Had they have been men, things would've been very different sure, but I don't think they paved the way so a bunch of estrogen laden whiners could inheret the earth.
I think men take rejection better than women. I do think there are very definitive differences between men and women, and I celebrate those without being critical, and strive to overcome those that I can. For example, I will never be as physically strong as some of my male counterparts, I am fully comfortable with that. Therefore, I don't aspire to be a construction worker or dead weight lifter.
When I get turned down because of a girl I take it the same way if I get turned down because of a man. I go back to square one and work harder for the next thing. Complaining and blaming the other person only hurts yourself.

If men can weather just as much, without crying sexual harrassment and lawsuits, then why should women be any less strong? We will only get treated as equals when we (individually) act it.
I am all for "girl power" and such, but it is an individual responsibility to own it without being b!tchy about it. No one owes me anything I didn't earn outright.

Now, as NYC pointed out, being male (esp. white in this world) isn't always easy depending on the field you are in. Male nurses, teachers, hairdressers/cosmeticians, models, dancers, and the real kickers...Male Homemakers and Single Fathers are very much moving against the grain and are the focus of critical judgement, from other men as well as women in their field.
It is a two way street of double standards.

I am blessed and I know this. I have the freedom to actually be a woman and express myself as such, regardless of who approves or not. An American Bellydancer was beaten and raped on a trip to Egypt not so long ago, and when she reported it, she was put in jail. Over there, when in jail, you pay for your food and such. She was not allowed a phone call, or anything, and couldn't afford to eat. Another woman she was in jail with (on a similar charge) was released and took a note to the US Embassy, which then worked to free the dancer. There are so many cultures where women are seriously oppressed. I don't need some over stuffed tight arse to tell the world what I am owed as a woman when I am fully happy to stand up for myself and earn it. If others think I don't deserve it, they will learn in time when I prove it. Let them piss and moan. What do you care as long as you are working up to the standards you set for yourself, or beyond? By doing that, in the end no matter which sex you are, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[ 19. February 2003, 08:41: Message edited by: Pele ]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Astarmember
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Pele:
I am going to soooooo disagree here! As a woman in a VERY competitive field, I compete against men and women for stage time. If I don't get a part it is because someone was better than me and I need to polish up, not because s/he offered favors to a director.

No one is saying when two women are competing to a role with similar credentials that one is sleeping with the boss to get the job. What they are saying is women do not handle this well and they think they did not get the part because the other woman did various things possibly including sleeping with the boss.

quote:
Originally posted by Pele:
Look at the rates of violence in high schools? It is predominately male to male. Men are just as apt to be judgemental and try to hold one another back as they are to support one another. It is not so seperate as all that.

Uh have you any idea what's going on in schools? I don't know about there but in canada and america the girls are fighting more then the guys. Not just pissy little disputes carried out through gossip and name calling and exclusion from cliques. Loud obnoxious confrontations. These stupid fights happen WAY more then guys have disputes. Sure guys use violence but they don't actually have as many fights and the figure for violence in schools is starting to balance out for women/men.

RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
Firstly dispell the idea that feminism is a cohesive movement. Long ago it was fractured into (and this is not an exhaustive list) socialist feminist, communist feminists, radical feminists, christian feminists, eco-feminists (often dreamy women with great dreads), the list could go on. And a lot of women today in a previous era would have called themselves feminists, but now don't as they either feel there is no need, or do not want to be tarred with the "femini-nazi" brush. The media has a tendency to cover things that are sensational, so the branch of feminism most likely to get coverage is radical feminism, then it also gets beefed up beyond belief. Then it is assumed that all feminists feel the same way about whatever issue (usually there is massive disagreement).

quote:
Ms. X of X company makes open comments in public about how men are stupid violent pigs with no more motivation for their actions then the basic need to reproduce.

Mr. Y of Y company makes similar comments about how women are sluts that are only good for sex and don't have anymore intelligence then a door post.

Mr. Y has destroyed his credibility and reputation and Ms. X is seen as a strong and modern women who is at the forefront of the feminist movement.

Astar, I am going to assume you are talking about a specific case here, and if it is exactly as you represent it, then in all likelihood the only people who respect Ms. X are women who hold the same beliefs. She would probably even be roundly condemned by most women who call themselves feminist.

To return to the topic, you have to remember that women are a bunch of humans. We have the equal-opportunity right to be as stupid as men, as cruel as men, as competitive as men, etc, etc.

Women are generally taught from an early age to fight using words, and trust us we are not afraid to use them. Words are often the weapons of subtle sexual harassment, bullying, and gender bias. Yeah, its probably all personal, but we learnt how to compete with other women years ago in the playground, even our own best friends, and we ain't about to stop now we are grown ups . The biggest problem here is that a woman is unlikely to conclude that her prejudice is against women, rather she will state "I just don't like her", the fact that there has been five "hers" in five months doesn't register.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


Astarmember
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.


Posted:
Maybe I am surrounded by radical feminists but I would say atleast 60% of the women I interact with hold the radical feminist beliefs I have been ranting about in this thread.

The core of my ranting is probably the fact that I don't want to be grouped with the guys out there who live up to the radical beliefs of these women.

An example is one time on a bus I saw a woman with an increadible star of david pin on her shirt made out of crystal. I love crystal and this was by far the most beautiful piece of crystal work I have ever seen. I commented about how nice it was and she thought I was stareing at her breasts and makeing some snyde remark. Maybe
I look act and sound like a really creepy guy which caused her reaction, but it seems to me like I do not.

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Astar:
No one is saying when two women are competing to a role with similar credentials that one is sleeping with the boss to get the job. What they are saying is women do not handle this well and they think they did not get the part because the other woman did various things possibly including sleeping with the boss.
That is what I said Aster. I don't think that way. I know many women who do not react this way, and who handle this form of rejection as a means to motivate themselves more. And I have seen men react just as badly as what you are saying.

quote:
Uh have you any idea what's going on in schools? I don't know about there but in canada and america the girls are fighting more then the guys. Not just pissy little disputes carried out through gossip and name calling and exclusion from cliques. Loud obnoxious confrontations. These stupid fights happen WAY more then guys have disputes. Sure guys use violence but they don't actually have as many fights and the figure for violence in schools is starting to balance out for women/men.
Aster, I have taught College Short Story Literature, High School English and Elementary Special Ed.. I am well aware of what goes on in school's, and statistically, it is predominately male violence, even at the elementary level.
As a female teacher, I was told to let the male teacher's handle it, to not get into the fray because I wouldn't be enough to stop them, regardless of the fact that I was the same size, if not taller, than some of my peers.
Girls are loud sure, they get into a pushing screaming match, but blow for blow, males tend to actually take it physically further and faster than girls. This was all covered in the ongoing training programs that teachers went to on the days when the students had the days off. In fact, I was teaching high school when Columbine happened, and the subsequent rash of shootings (which were all done by boys, let me remind you). That led to far more "zero tolerance education" that was just stupid in my eyes.

We are human and act as such. First and foremost.
I have complimented men on stuff and they immediately think I am hitting on them. The woman on the bus reacted differently but the thought is essentially the same, sexual in nature. You took her reaction badly. I brush it off and keep on going. It is human nature, not gender reliant.

[ 19. February 2003, 09:25: Message edited by: Pele ]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Astarmember
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.


Posted:
Ok. My other point was girls actually fight more, it's just not violent fights.

thingeymajigmember
43 posts
Location: London


Posted:
Whoa!

Am feeling quite bad for posting such an emotive subject (this is such a friendly site, I hope war has not broken out!).

Then again, its a great learning experience to hear other people's point of views.

Originally, I was just talking about feeling like a total hypocrite for wanting equal acceptance as a woman when in fact I myself have been judgemental in the past.

I agree Pele that you should set your own standards, and should strive to succeed despite of what sex you are. However, for instance when yuo mentioned reality TV shows, don't you find that it is easier to be accepting of the men over the women? Maybe not, but I am just feeling bad for not accepting and promoting other women in the past.

I am not a girly girl and often find myself shunning feminine girls because of the whole 'helpless, hopeless' stereo type. Everything everyone has written has been really insightful, I just hope in the future that I can practice what I preach.


xx

....so does it come with a hat?


BlackFireJackmember
167 posts
Location: Bergen , Norway


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Rozi:
[QB
To return to the topic, you have to remember that women are a bunch of humans. We have the equal-opportunity right to be as stupid as men, as cruel as men, as competitive as men, etc, etc.
[/QB]
Thats one of the best things I have heard in the feminist debate for years.....(Not that I am an expert )
Cause Men (or maybe just me, I dont know )
is more than once accused of not admitting mistakes. But in my experience it's the other way around, because women talk them self out of admitting anything...like a lawer...

I like Fire.. :)


Cherylmember
29 posts
Location: Portland, OR USA


Posted:
Given that I have attended several diversity workshops and have taught a couple too, I wanted to shed some light on definitions while talking about this topic.

Sexism is oppression against women.

Oppression has to do with power. For one group to oppress another, they must have power over that group. So since women in our society have less power than men, men can be sexist but women cannot.

Prejudice is judging a person based on the group that they belong to. It does not have anything to do with power. Women can be prejudiced against men but cannot oppress them because they don't have power over them.

People often seem to mix these terms up and I think that it is important to understand how they are different.

-Cheryl

Astarmember
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.


Posted:
So let me get this straight.

Women can not be sexist.

Women can not prejudice men.

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Cheryl,(please know this is not about you, but more how I feel about what you have been taught in the diversity course) in being a teacher and in interactive performing we also have to know those lines, and when not to cross them. I too have been to diversity workshops and harrasment workshops in recent years, and the definitions have changed. Women most definately have power over men in this day and age...if you don't believe me, talk to a stripper, a female performer really of any genre, models, teachers, and now it really applies to any field. The CEO of Xerox is female. You are telling me she has no power over men, in a *male dominated* company? How about the second in command at Cirque Du Soliel, Lynn is all female and she used to be a contortionist too. Christie Heffner is CEO of Playboy Enterprises, Inc. (her father, Hugh, is Editor and figurehead only), that is alot of power for one woman to have over a global amount of men. And I truly think the women sitting in the seats of the Supreme Court would seriously disagree as well, especially after they fought so much to get there. Sounds to me like your conferences need to be updated as reverse sexism is becoming more and more common (and is recognised in courts) as women move up the corporate and political ladders (this coming from a woman who lives in the state where Hillary Clinton is Senator).

Sexism is a two way street today.
No one really has power over you unless you let them. They can have an effect on you sure, but to have power over someone is to have a sway in their life, and only a single person can allow someone else to have that for them in our society.

Thingeymajig, I can honestly say I root for the women. I watched the first installation of Survivor: The Amazon becuase I heard it was supposed to be men vs. women. Watching the cocky attitudes of the men I was sooo happy when the guys lost their first challenge. I have also watched the Battle of the Sexes on MTV and again, I cheer for the girls. Sure, there are guys I like and girls I don't but on the whole, it is fun to watch the boys eat crow. Maybe if they didn't talk so much smack I would feel differently, but it seems anytime women are pitted against men in competition, the men talk alot that they can not seem to deliver on. *shrug*
All that ego stuff I suppose!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
Grrrr, I hate that battle of the sexes stuff. Yep, it is heaps amusing, but so often it just encourages a bunch of stereotypes (this whole "men are this, and women are the opposite" rubbish).


Astar, I guess I can't tell you what to think. You are experiencing what you are experiencing. I don't know whether it is just Canada, or just the bunch of people you are hanging out with, but my experience of feminism and feminists has been vastly different. If events are occurring exactly as you have described, and there is nothing more to the story, well I will be honest with you it puzzles me as to why any intelligent person would greet such comments as those attributed to Ms X with any support. It would be nice to know a little more context however.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Pele:

I have also watched the Battle of the Sexes on MTV and again, I cheer for the girls. Sure, there are guys I like and girls I don't but on the whole, it is fun to watch the boys eat crow. Maybe if they didn't talk so much smack I would feel differently, but it seems anytime women are pitted against men in competition, the men talk alot that they can not seem to deliver on. *shrug*
All that ego stuff I suppose!

I think you need to check again because the boys have come roaring back not by talking smack but by being a unit and supportive and just getting it done.They started out cocky but after getting their @$$es handed to them the first two times they have made quite the comeback.Meanwhile the girls team is coming apart due to petty infighting.Though at this point it is anyone's game.

Where is dromepixie when you need her?She always seems to have a zen-ist style response for these kind of things.

I personally don't associate myself with these people on either side.If you want to be racist,sexist or oppressive than go rain on someone else's parade.I associate with those of open-mindedness and try to encourage others to do the same.An acquaintance of mine is always telling me about her bad days because the girls she hangs out with are so competitive and bitchy and rude to each other and the advice I give her every time is to just not hang out with them.She gets so emotional and worked up about it and yet she won't do anything about it. I swear women confuse me to no end these days.

It is hard to walk the line of being sexist and not.I try so hard to be impartial to everything and sometimes feel that by pointing out sexism on one side makes me sexist at the same time.It is too broad of a generalization to say that women are more sexist than men these days.

In my opinion there are two kinds of people:$h!theads and beautiful poi spinners (even though some don't know they are).I try to be the latter as often as possible and have a tendency to associate myself with the latter.

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Wow... so many different side conversations on this topic. Firstly, I can only speak comfortably on the situation in America. I think it's the same for most Western countries but I'm not willing to make that blanket assumtion.

I guess I'll start with Pele. M'dear, on a personal level, you must acknowledge that you are, for some unknown reason, often a victim of reverse prejudice. I don't think that what you experience is common for most people in this world.

The sad reality of the majoity of the western world is this:

Being white makes my life easier.

Being male makes my life easier.

Yes, there are examples in which that is not true. I think reverse sexism is prevelant in some circles.

Cheryl originally offended me for the same reason that Astar reacted (though I'll only speak for myself) but her underlying point is an excellent one. There is a huge difference between prejudice and oppression.

For example, I certainly know many black people who are prejudice against whites as well as whites who are prejudice against blacks. But, on a national level over recent history argueing that blacks have opressed whites is just plain silly. Clearly African Americans have been opressed in America. It is relevant to distinguish between oppression and prejudice.

I do agree with Astar that some aspects of our society do promote reverse discrimination. There are several cases in which the X and Y situations have happened BUT I think the reverse is true MUCH more often. I think that on a day-to-day level, women are still being discriminated against in the workplace AND opressed.

Keep in mind Astar that the following situation occurs often, perhaps more often:
Mr. Y is a strongly worded efficient boss who clearly states his goals and expectations and disiplines strongly when they are not met.
Ms. X runs her company exactly the same way.

Mr. Y is viewed as a strong and confident leader. Ms. X is viewed as a bossy bitch.

To further drive that home, I can't name a famous contemporary female who is powerful and isn't ridiculed for being a "bitch".

Most Americans are much more comfortable taking orders from a male than a female... For obvious reasons. Most homes are governed by the male of the house. Most of my students respect male teachers more than female teachers because their fathers demand more respect than their mothers.

Getting back to thingey's original point: It's important for us to define gender roles and stay true to our moral definition. If you believe that males and females should be respected equally, then you certainly should fight the urge to judge each with different scales.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


brainstormaBRONZE Member
old hand
1,184 posts
Location: under the fairie wheel, Australia


Posted:
im sorry but i have to say this

I HATE FEMANISM

ok i have that off my chest

i feel it is just as sexist as male shovanism. women are just as capable of doint this as men are if not better in may casesas the same gose with men in others

i was dating a femenist for a couple of months and every time i would make a coment abou tthis i was told that i was afraid of femnism adn tat was shovanistic of meyet this was never the case. mind it was ok for her to belittle the scills i knew and make me feel like shit just because i was male

shoot me down if you like but femanists are just as sexist as men


next rant is re performances. i have been involved in the underground performace art scean for many years now and have noticed a disregard to male performers by new female artist as if it is not right for men to enjoy the artistic quolitys of the performace (quit usualy they are sexualy orianted) i have had my ideas for performaces ridiculed because they are seen as being overtly sexual but have seen the same people do sexual acts on stag purly for shock value and this makes me sick and in some ways make me feel like leaving the scean i love


thats my rant thankyou for putting up with me

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
I'm concerned by how people are defining feminism. So I did the trite thing and hit the dictionary:

***

(from Cambridge International Dictionary of English)

feminism
noun [U]
the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power and chances as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state

(from Webster's)

1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

***

Feminism has gotten a bad wrap. Feminism is, by definition, striving ONLY for equity. I consider myself an avid feminist. It sounds strange coming out of a white male's mouth because the word is so often misused, but it's true.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
Brainstorma, this thursday you are going to get a hug from a feminist that you like...

me.

I am a feminist, I have no shame in saying that. I have always been thus. My mother marched in ban-the-bomb rallies, organised by women in the UK in the 60's. She has always worked, despite the instances of prejudice shown against her.

I believe in equality, not female supremacy. Feminism is no excuse for bullying, for ignoring basic human decency. I am not alone in believing this.

Feminism is going through a difficult age, you only have to read such texts as "The First Stone" by Helen Garner, to understand that. Women are frustrated, they are at the point where they have done away with a lot of the most obvious barriers and prejudices. Yet the forward momentum seems to be slowing. This is for many reasons. As a group, there is disagreement on the end result, so a lot of women want to stop here and now, they do not consider themselves to be feminist, they believe that equality is already here. I do not believe this, I believe that there are a lot more subtle instances of prejudice (such as the working hours of politicians which prevent family women from entertaining that career) to be combatted. This does not mean browbeating men, because these are institutionalised prejudices, not a prejudice created by individuals, and there are equivalent prejudices felt by men.

To return again, these are the frustrations felt by feminists, along with the fragmentation of the movement, and the gap between generations.

Frustration leads to some fairly extreme and oft times unfair behaviour. Issues such as pornography, childbirth, and sexuality divide us and result in some pretty peculiar behaviour, it is because we are in part confused.

Whatever the reason, do not attribute the behaviour of individuals to the whole movement (if I can call it thus ). Understand that there is a lot more going on.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


thingeymajigmember
43 posts
Location: London


Posted:
There's this new show on in the UK called 'without prejudice', where a panel has to slowly eliminate people from a group of 5 or 6 and decided which one to give 50,000 pounds to, based on their background beleifs etc. It's a really trashy show, but well worth watching just because of how unbeleivably stupid and prejudiced the panel actually are. And they are just normal people. Very insightful into different views of the general public, but you will find yourself screaming at the TV set and creating a hit list of idiots you want to have whacked.

Anyways, on another notewhat was thinking about what a few people said about women using sexual favours to get ahead. Now I don't agree with doing this, but if you think about it, sexual prowess is the greatest power women have over men, so why is it so frowned upon? (just an idea, has no bearing on my actual opinion...yet)


xx

....so does it come with a hat?


PK_BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,996 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
that show kicks ass, i some times watch it if theres nothing on.
well as my TV is less than 24inchs away for my monitor, the tv is aways on

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.


Trippie HippieBRONZE Member
old hand
733 posts
Location: Bewildered state of nothingness, United Kingdom


Posted:
WOW Heated!!!!
I can only speak for what i have seen and heard as a white english male.

I cannot be bothered to go back and find all the relevant quotes, but if you've read all the posts above i won't need to.

OK, I think that women do have power over men in many ways.
Over many years women have been banging on about men not being sensitive enough, so men become more sensitive to the needs of women, then women move the goal posts. Now women want men to be physical fit and muscular/toned and successful, so in this way women do have a power over men because they've got us chasing our arses trying to keep up!!!!!!

It has also been said that men are more violent in schools/life than women, i don't think that is the case at all, when i was at school i remember there being just as many girls fighting as men, but the difference was that men would fight and that would be that, but women kept it going for weeks and weeks.
If two blokes have a problem that they feel words will not sort, yes it comes to blows, but that is that, it's left there, it's out of their system.
But women bitch and bitch, come to blows, then continue to bitch and bitch for months, i know women who are still not speaking 5 years on, after disagreements they had at school.

When it comes to the work place, i've found women to be a lot more cold and heartless than men when it comes to their jobs, they will do anything and tread on anyone to get where they want to be, and 9 times out of 10 they get there.
Women no long want to stay at home and look after the kids, they want a career and god help any one who gets in their way.

I think in the current state that the world is in, men have to walk a very fine line.

I have payed women compliments and every time they think that i'm hitting on them.
Women, i feel have a chip on their shoulder, in that, they are so used to men thinking that they are "Superior" to them and that they can say and do anything and get away with it, that they find it difficult to accept the fact that a lot of men are no longer as bad as all that.
Men are all tared with the same brush.
But women wanted us to be more sensitive, we pay them a compliment and they throw it back in our faces.
Ladies, you can't have it both ways!!!!!

Thats my take on it, and probably ONLY MINE!!!!!!
Please feel free to question me on any of my views
LOL
Taking it easy
Trippy

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Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone.
N.E.W.B. Agent #012
"I Got Soul"
Non-Https Image Link


Trippie Hippie- Monty Dons secret love child

Fly like a mouse, run like a pillow, be the small book case.

"Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone".

Because dressing up is fun.


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