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Forums > Social Discussion > Airport Security Tightens, UK 10/08/06

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Asena
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Asena

What a Bummer
Location: Shatfield, Hertfordshire

Total posts: 3224
Posted:For those who don't know, or intend on flying out from the UK today...



16 men were arrested in connection with suspected terrorist activities today. The plan as such, to blow up explosives in the hand luggage midflight. Due to that, nearly every UK airport is on max security. Queues, for check-in and going through security gates galour. Also, changes to whats allowed in hand luggage has changed, and only the following items are allowed:



 Written by: BTI UK Travel Alert



UK AIRPORTS BAGGAGE POLICY



Bulletin issued by BTI UK Travel Alert Service:

09.05 10 August 2006



Please be advised of the following development(s) that may impact your travel program:



Further to todays national security alert at UK airports, the Department for Transport (DoT) has issued additional security measures. With immediate effect, the following arrangements apply to all passengers starting their journey at a UK airport and to those transferring between flights at a UK airport.



All cabin baggage must be processed as hold baggage and carried in the hold of passenger aircraft departing UK airports.



Passengers may take through the airport security search point, in a single (ideally transparent) plastic carrier bag, only the following items. Nothing may be carried in pockets:



-pocketsize wallets and pocket size purses plus contents (for example money, credit cards, identity cards etc (not handbags));

-travel documents essential for the journey (for example passports and travel tickets);

-prescription medicines and medical items sufficient and essential for the flight (eg diabetic kit), except in liquid form unless verified as authentic.

-spectacles and sunglasses, without cases.

-contact lens holders, without bottles of solution.

-for those travelling with an infant: baby food, milk (the contents of each bottle must be tasted by the accompanying passenger) and sanitary items sufficient and essential for the flight (nappies, wipes, creams and nappy disposal bags).

-female sanitary items sufficient and essential for the flight, if unboxed (eg tampons, pads, towels and wipes).

-tissues (unboxed) and/or handkerchiefs

-keys (but no electrical key fobs)



All passengers must be hand searched, and their footwear and all the items they are carrying must be x-ray screened.



Pushchairs and walking aids must be x-ray screened, and only airport-provided wheelchairs may pass through the screening point.



In addition to the above, all passengers boarding flights to the USA and all the items they are carrying, including those acquired after the central screening point, must be subjected to a secondary search at the boarding gate. Any liquids discovered must be removed from the passenger.



There are no changes to current hold baggage security measures.



Regrettably, significant delays at airports are inevitable. Passengers are being asked to allow themselves plenty of extra time and to ensure that other than the few permitted items listed above; all their belongings are placed in their hold baggage and checked in.





Thoughts anyone?


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Cole - I like to question the coincidence in the event that such substance has been found dumped, shortly AFTER the measure was inplemented.

To carry explosive liquids is not a new idea, it simply has never been used - maybe for a reason. People carry liquified drugs over the borders every day, so what's the big news? shrug

All this is due to insurance companies, nothing more/ less. Airliners are expensive and ALL NECESSARY MEANS have to be taken in order to avoid claims.

You wanna attack an airliner? How simple. Just get yourself a "Stinger" or any ground-air missile and you will not have to worry about "tightened airport security"... fire and forget...

But maybe the western brainwashing propaganda thingy "yes, this 'war on terrorism' is serious and we're producing results: the world is getting safer" simply works well... wonder who's winning the next election with what kind of arguments... umm


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: FireTom


You wanna attack an airliner? How simple. Just get yourself a "Stinger" or any ground-air missile and you will not have to worry about "tightened airport security"... fire and forget...



yep, its that simple tom.

they sell surface to air missiles in supermarkets nowdays and the intelligence services don't even bother stopping you to ask ask what you're planning to use it for wink


i don't believe that "all this is due to insurance companies".

whether or not i agree with the measures is irrelevant - i think they were put in place for several reasons:

1. to allay the fears of foreign countries receiving flights from the uk

2. as a preventative measure to nullify the possibility that there might be cell members that had not been apprehended and were considering attempting to carry out the attack as planned

3. to pacify the moral majority who, if no measures had been put in place and an attack had occurred, would have condemned those in charge for 'doing absolutely nothing' to protect the public despite all the intelligence they had gathered suggesting that an attack of that specific nature was immenent.


look how many people knew 9/11 was going to happen but did nothing to prevent it:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=911+knew&btnG=Search&meta=
br>rolleyes


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol

1) they usually don't sell C4 or NitroGlycerin over the counter either
2) IF you have been to an international airport in, for say Goa, or let's name Georgia, or maybe let's take Cabo Verde and take a flight to Europe - THEN fear is adequate, due to very lax security... There are NO de facto international standards, except for monitoring. BEHIND the monitors are PEOPLE, who decide what they regard as suspicious and what not.

Therefore your nailclippers certainly go bust at JFK, but most likely NOT in DEL

What you take into consideration to be likely and what not rolleyes is a matter of taking a look at the world. "Object may be closer than they appear" has been placed into rear mirrors because of....? Another example "Do not attempt to dry your pet in this microwave oven"... do you think "they" are woried even an inch over your pet? IMHO they are simply not keen to pay a $ 10O.000 compensation, because they HAVEN'T mentionend it... hence they knew... "common sense" you may claim... don't.

But what the *&%$ do I know, anyways?

Cole, I do not even know whether those "cell members" have been/ are not (in)directly linked to the CIA... Do you believe, all ties of CIA to extremist (terrorist) cells have got cut, because and after 9/11? umm


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted: Written by: FireTom


To carry explosive liquids is not a new idea, it simply has never been used - maybe for a reason. People carry liquified drugs over the borders every day, so what's the big news? shrug

Actually, liquid explosives have been used in just this type of scenario.

And, Coleman's mention of finding dumped liquid explosives has caused me to rethink my opinion on airport security. I still don't like it, but I'm willing to endure it as a necessary evil.


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks stout - haven't been aware of this.

Don't anyone share a thought that the detection of a dumped liquid explosive could be staged?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Staged? I don't think so, mainly because I can't see who would benefit from staging it.

One thing I have noticed about conspiracy theorists is a certain level of, errrrrrr, paranoia. There's an underlying concern that these conspiracies are staged as a means to impinge on. and eventually deny a persons civil liberties.

It's been five years since 911, and I'm at a loss to determine just what civil liberties I've actually lost. I'm not talking about the loss of my ability to take my own brand of drinking water on a plane, or the fact that I have to take my shoes off before boarding a plane, as those really only amount to minor inconveniences when it comes right down to it. I don't like it, but I wouldn't call it a loss of liberties.

For more "insight" see prisonplanetdotcom or propagandamatrixdotcom.

Hummmm, prisonplanet seems to be down, I suspect the government wink


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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Whatever about the conspiracy, Have a read of this page stout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
br>
then this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act_controversy
br>
Between the two of them, and the extensive list of external links... (coz the wiki aint got it all... Its fast though, and im in work.) You should get some idea of the civil liberties you have lost.


Love is the law.

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:True, the Patriot Act does make it easier for the government to spy on me, so I guess that's where I've lost a few liberties, but it hasn't affected my life at all, even if I have visited a few subversive websites.

Hey,,,two guys wearing suits and driving a dark sedan just picked up my trash.

If I were all that fussed about my privacy, I wouldn't leave a trail of everything I bought and everywhere I've been by using bank and credit cards.


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:I think what people are concerned about stout is that:

The government is allowed to spy on you more. Without your say or knowledge.

Then the government is allowed to 'detain' people for an unspecified length of time who they suspect of being terrorists.

Then the government decides or fabricates evidence that you're a terrorist.

You have no public support for your case because you're a terrorist.

and then they do that to anybody else who could conceivable appose the current party.

Then they do what ever they like.

yay poetry!

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Pastor Martin Niemller (18921984)


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:You figure that eventually, they'll apply the patriot act to people they simply don't like ? I won't discount the possibility, however I'm not convinced that the world is going the way of China under the Cultural Revolution,,,yet.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:not the world...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
br>
searching google for "voting machines exit polls" is also quite fun.

I wouldn't really be surprised if bush or one of his relatives sat on the board of a company that makes voting machines...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:some links from the geeks...

feasable?

Titone!

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted: Written by: mcp


I wouldn't really be surprised if bush or one of his relatives sat on the board of a company that makes voting machines...



Not quite.


--------


OK, so there are no major losses of civil liberties yet. But the structures are being put in place that would allow our governments to have a lot more control over our lives in future.

Why would they want to do this? Well if global oil supplies are running out, and if they are running out quicker than expected (due to China and India developing more than expected and using more oil), then in 50 years the [censored] could hit the fan real [censored] hard. The limiting factor on the human population is oil, by our use of it for food production (fuel for growing and transport, chemicals for pesticides and fertilizers) and medicines.

I've seen speculative papers saying that without any foreign oil imports the UK could support a population of just 2% of current. And that's if everyone is organised towards producing food and doing not much else.

You only have to look at the milatary posturing of countries like China and Russia (who have been supplying cruise missiles to Venezuela, Syria, Libya and Iran that can sink aircraft carriers, with no defense as they fly at ~mach 3 15' above sea level) to see that oil supplies are being carefully protected by all the major powers.

Anarchy is understatement for what will happen to humanity if oil supplies run out, and our governments may well be preparing for that. Making sure that people are unaware of what is coming up is part of the plan, so they can stay in power long enough to get the pieces into position, instead of people panicing and it being really difficult for anyone to stay in power long enough to get anything organised.


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:I handled TATP once (over 10 years ago) and on hearing that the bombers were attempting to smuggle liquids onboard it's the first thing I thought of. It's ridiculously easy to make, and the quantity you could make from just 2 litres of reagents would cause pretty serious damage to an aircraft. It isn't something you'd want to keep stored, as it goes off at about 50C and is also destabilised through contact with metals and other chemicals, even chemicals in the reagents if they aren't pure enough.

You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: polarity


OK, so there are no major losses of civil liberties yet.



Really? Random searches of backpacks and other large containers on the subway (a public space, really, even if it's fare-controlled) isn't a loss of civil liberties?

What they're saying is "If you don't like it don't take the subway." But there's no alternative because if you're in a car they can search you, too. So the only alternative is to walk everywhere, which isn't really an alternative.

THAT'S how it's happening, slowly but surely. And now they can detain legal US residents (and possibly citizens) for an indefinite period without charges, trial, appeal, or recourse. And that means that it can't even go to the Supreme Court because it's "secret." Nasty little legal trick.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:By major I'd mean having your every whereabouts logged using the RFID tag in an ID card, same as needing papers to go places and prove who you are all the time. Not quite NAZI Germany yet, but getting there with CCTV everywhere and ID cards close on the horizon.

You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning


THAT'S how it's happening, slowly but surely. And now they can detain legal US residents (and possibly citizens) for an indefinite period without charges, trial, appeal, or recourse. And that means that it can't even go to the Supreme Court because it's "secret." Nasty little legal trick.



It's funny how it's so little different from china or nazi germany. In twenty years time we'll look back on this at laugh at our failure to see the repeated pattern in histroy. Y'know? If we're permitted by the government to laugh at all.

The holocaust was only stopped because germany was at war, and we won. If it hadn't been at war, would we have gone to war to stop it?

Who'll rescue us when the 'civilized' western nations go barmy and facist?

I can only hope that one night in the future, I find secret copies of V for Vendetta and Fight Club. And then finally I can become a mask wearing wig bound freak that blows things up! Woo hoo! My destiny!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning


 Written by: polarity


OK, so there are no major losses of civil liberties yet.



Really? Random searches of backpacks and other large containers on the subway (a public space, really, even if it's fare-controlled) isn't a loss of civil liberties?

What they're saying is "If you don't like it don't take the subway." But there's no alternative because if you're in a car they can search you, too. So the only alternative is to walk everywhere, which isn't really an alternative.




Oh jeez... Doc with the Backpacks again.

Don't get him started.

I think the lesson is "If you make Doc late for work WHATEVER your political beliefs are, Doc will vote against them."

[Hopes that Mike doesn't slrip on a gay rights flyer on the way down the stairs or he'll start voting Republican.]

wink wink wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted: Written by: mcp


I can only hope that one night in the future, I find secret copies of V for Vendetta and Fight Club. And then finally I can become a mask wearing wig bound freak that blows things up! Woo hoo! My destiny!



sorry.... the future?

T ubblol


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Ok, maybe not the world then, sheesh I have to get out more.

Conspiracy theory over the liquid explosives ? That's new to me, so I'll refrain from comment.

Advance preparation for a doomsday scenario? Hummmm, it can't be over peak oil, because, as everyone knows, we'll all be dead from global warming by then, or we'll be starving because the hole in the ozone layer burned all our crops to dust, Not to mention overpopulation.

About the backpack( and car) thing. Is this a completely random search, and is it limited to NY only? To me this qualifies as a loss of liberty, over here, this sort of thing only happens sporadically at special events, and usually the searches are for liquor, because we have the same problem with drunks "ruining it for everyone else" too.
What happens if they find contraband other than a bomb, or something else suspicious like a backpack full of obviously stolen goods?

Not even close to Nazi Germany or China......yet


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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Apparently in the last few days some hijackers diverted a plane from Turkey to Italy. They had no weapons at all. They were polite and offered food and refreshments to the other passengers.

So it seems all you really need to do is ask nicely and the pilot will take you where you want to go...


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:It's been said before, but I feel the urge for repetition:

a) 2 countries have been invaded
b) (at least international) travelling documents will bear biometric data (that has to be collected in the first place)
c) people got detained, incarcerated and tortured as they were suspected terrorists. Actually the German citizen Murat Karnatz was released only recently, after 4 years of imprisonment...

4 years of his life. From 20 - 24!!!! Without any help from his (and my) government (who knew about the plot)... The reason why he's free is maybe just because he's a German citizen. I don't want to think about ppl who had been unlucky enough to be born in Afghanistan/ Iraq or elsewhere. I am certain that there are ppl imprisoned 4 - 5 years without their families having any clue about the fact.

Conspiracy theory. Somebody stated this before (dunno guess in the 911 fraud-thread): You don't need a theory, knowing that your govt has been involved in building up terrorist cells, or entire terrorist organisations in the Middle East and Central America.

How much proof do you actually need, that regardless whether the US govt has been directly involved or not - it's a an organisation that benefits terrorists. And I am willing to admit that it'S not the only (western) govt that has completely fcensored up morals.

Look at the french govt and what happened to Greenpeaces "Rainbow Warrior"... and by far that's certainly not the only case.

The purpose? You are seriously asking for the purpose of this entire theatre? umm


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:And anyone who knows me well knows that I'm level-headed enough to be the last person to start talking about conspiracies.

I don't necessarily think it's a conspiracy, per se, but it is an example of some very power-hungry and racist/culturalist leaders taking advantage of a convenient tragedy.

I don't think that the US government caused 9/11 directly (as in commissioned, planned, or intentionally enabled the attacks). SOMEONE would have blown a whistle by now. However, the timing couldn't have been worse.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Now we have such a range of threads on the topic that it's kind-a odd to tear ones opinion in pieces and post them all over the discussion board...

Look: liquid explosives were used (as much as we know) ONCE, to attack an airplane. Until a very short while ago, you could take bottles on to the plane (not talking about all these "duty free whiskey bottles")... I hold not sufficient informations on how much impact 1 liter of Nitroglycerine can have, but I assume it's enough to bring down an airliner...

Why didn't we happen to face more than only ONE attack with liquid explosives? Why has there (co-incidentally) been one finding of a liquid explosive, JUST AFTER the airport security tightened?

IF one would want to use liquid explosives, it's still possible...

Besides I was able to accidentally "smuggle" my nailfile onto the plane (flying from Munich)... was thinking about reporting myself rolleyes


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Firetramp


Firetramp

old hand
Location: Binstead, Isle of Wight

Total posts: 896
Posted:They stole my chocolate paste frown
...but they didn't see my chocolate puddings and chocolate mousse *evil laugh*.


Ask a question and be a fool for a minute...don't ask and be a fool your whole life.

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