the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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To me it is simply ridiculous that one would own and hold a gun in his possession (with this putting his own and the lives of his relatives and friends at a higher risk) whilst he is living in one of the most peaceful surroundings... you are right: I do NOT understand this.
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Are you declaring yourself to be the sheperds dog, where there are no wolves around... ??? If this is for the vast chance that you one day have got to fight your own government, or are you simply bored out of your skull and try to impress the ladies?
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Lurch, you did say that "this kid deserved to die" - later putting this statement more politically correct... unlike in this discussion, out there you may not as easily be able to reconsider your judgement... Why do you oppose mandatory, random drug testing and registering of gun ownership? Because you refrain from recreational drugs? If so, how about others, who are abusing all kinds of drugs, altering their perception and affecting their sound judgement?
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seemed to be implying that guns were essential to maintain social order- maybe I've misunderstood and you could explain why you were using that quote?
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Written by: LurchWritten by: me
seemed to be implying that guns were essential to maintain social order- maybe I've misunderstood and you could explain why you were using that quote?
In some cases, owning arms can aid in ensuring order. It is not a requirement, it is a safeguard.
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No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave. He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion. - James Burgh
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously
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Have you talked to any vets? You might hear a vastly different story from what you hear through the media
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: influencial men in the 20st cenury
"Strength lies not in defense but in attack."
"Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live."
"Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
"A single death is a tragedy, are million deaths is a statistic."
"You cannot make a revolution with silk gloves."
"The only real power comes out of a long rifle. "
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: faithinfire
Majestik: it would be more helpful if we knew the areas that they are being displaced from and where they ended up and how they feel about the displacement.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: lurch
Oddly enough I agree. We *could* be doing a lot better over there, we've been restricted. The war was doomed from the start because we didn't have enough support going in, and the troops weren't allowed the resources they needed. Now more than ever they need that support, and now more than ever the people are refusing to give it. It's a sad state..
Written by: President Bush, Jan. 6, 2003
Our administration is concerned about deficits, and the way they deal with deficits is you want to control spending. And I hope Congress lives up to their words. When they talk about deficits, they can join us in making sure we don't overspend. They can join us and make sure that the appropriations process is focused on those issues that -- those items that are absolutely necessary to the American people. I'm pleased that members of the Congress are talking about deficits. It means they understand their obligations not to overspend the people's money.
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Keeping a gun at home increases the likelihood that one of the residents, their relatives or friends gets involved into a gun related accident - Jeff and others have tried to point this out to you before, and it seems more than obvious: no guns present, no gun related accidents.
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Cops do check for sobriety on a random basis in traffic, they do not need to justify that - claiming that simply is neglecting the facts.
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IMHO mandatory, random drug testing of gun owners -especially for those who are permitted to carry heir guns in public - is simply a necessary precaution that I (if I were to be an american citizen) would demand my government to install, if no other measure can be implemented.
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The law is there in oder to prevent crime. A heroin addict should never be able to have a "concealed weapon carry permit (CCW)"
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People who make decisions (based on opinions) and by that affect the health and wellbeing of their fellow citizens must be able to be as clear and sound in their judgement as somehow possible - it's the governments duty to ensure and enforce that, in order to protect the others. You simply cannot revive someone, after you fatally shot him. Get it in your head. An erroneous decision with a deadly weapon in your hand simply might be final. In my eyes you have not presented yourself responsible and mature enough that I would trust my life or that of my beloveth ones on you...
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PS: the above quotes are from Hitler and Stalin
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not enough support eh
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Could be wrong, but I think the probability of a gun accident to any average law abiding citizen is probably higher than the probability of them being attacked by someone with intent to kill them, far more likely if anything happens it's just a robbery, and the gun is either there purely as a threat/leverage device, or for defence.
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there are a hell of a lot of deaths that wouldn't have occurred if someone on the defensive didn't have a gun too
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we've all seen the movies where one person pulls a gun, other pulls a gun and a stand-off comes about, paranoia, fear, and shoot first attitude of the general populace makes me think such occurrences are insignificant compared to the occasions at least one of the weapons is fired.
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Friend of mine the other day caught some kid/troublemaker/opportunist maybe even, trying to short cut through his garden, went out to shout at him, just caught his back as he bolted through the side gate and across the street in front of his house. didn't think twice about it till another friend said if it was the US, it'd be quite likely the guy could have had a gun, would assume he had a gun in the house, and would probably have felt no choice but to shoot first as my friend stood at the door shouting, or catch it in the back as he tried to run away.
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lot of pro-gun ppl would simply say damn right I'd maim/kill to save my wallet/garden gnome/whatever, but that's a deep seated and probably unchangable attitude that I personally find quite sickening.
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I agree with you that it is easy to imagine scenarios where a gun would be useful for defence, or to quote actual instances of such- the fact remains that, in the UK and Europe where guns are disallowed, it's just plain far less likely that you will ever face a gun.
That's not going to sway you cos, from what I understand, you'd rather that it was statistically more likely you'll face a gun and have your own gun at hand for defence; than for it to be far less likely to face a gun and have no gun in your possession.
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Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: LurchWritten by:
I agree with you that it is easy to imagine scenarios where a gun would be useful for defence, or to quote actual instances of such- the fact remains that, in the UK and Europe where guns are disallowed, it's just plain far less likely that you will ever face a gun.
That's not going to sway you cos, from what I understand, you'd rather that it was statistically more likely you'll face a gun and have your own gun at hand for defence; than for it to be far less likely to face a gun and have no gun in your possession.
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Yes it's less likely you'll face a gun, but what were the chances of you facing a legally owned gun to begin with?
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So all you've really done is two things, outlawed guns that were already outlawed (kinda redundant) and removed the guns from people who might actually have a reason for owning them.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: faithinfire
I don't think we are closing our minds to reason, but we live in a different place too
both who own guns here have made valid points for owning them
Guns are not the solution to a crime, stopping the criminal before he commits the crime would be a more than viable solution.
You really do not seem to have an open mind about this subject and therefore your part of the discussion goes nowhere. We are always repeating ourselves and we get stuck in a loop.
We are not acting like children. We do not think guns help us grow up.
Save your hugs for someone else, it does not minimize or soften what you said. There is no point to the hug and seems patronizing...IMO
lurch has stated why he arms himself, so has pounce, i said why i briefly did and I was the only one who might not have had a valid reason. If you cannot see that, then you have blinded yourself with your own "dark energies."
Objects only have the power you give it.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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1) Compulsory sobriety checks are perfectly legal in my country, especially if the LEO's do notice any irregularity in the way someone is handling his vehicle (that might start by not putting out their indicator when changing lanes)
They do happen in the US too. Trust me. And no officer will face charges for doing so. Maybe even in your state...
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2) Owning and carrying a gun (in public) whilst high on mind altering drugs, who change the perception and clarity of judgement DO NOT mix well.
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3) You please keep on walking - that's pefect with me, I'll handle my own problems The same way I always had to.
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5) You dismiss all evidence that guns in the house increase gun related accidents - which is preposterous in itself ( I repeat: No gun = no gun related accident) - and at the same time claim (unverified) evidence that guns do prevent crimes... (*yawn*) - and expect the rest of us to buy it...
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6) You do have a "shoot first/ ask later" attitude yourself by putting judgement on that 15 yr old kid. You - in fact at least - appear potentially dangerous to me, as you see criminals where in fact (statistically) there are none and vice versa.
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You arm yourself (endangering family and friends) to defend your rights (basically to arm yourself)...
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But hey - maybe I'm just wrong trying to emphasise that guns are not the solution to crime, maybe I'm the problem here? This I'm certainly not ruling out... But if you do not want to get talked to like children, maybe stop acting like some. Guns will not help you to grow up... especially not if you depend your survival on them.
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Pretty low. The only guns that are legal are those held by police. As an innocent person, the chances are near-zero that you'd face a gun (not toally zero, as several innocent people have been shot by mistake by armed police).
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in the UK where guns are heavily restricted/illegal, it is a fact that citizens are far less likely to face a gun, than are U.S. citizens.
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These circumstances include:
- proper and mandatory background checks
- mandatory and random drug tests
- proper education and training
- registration with officials
- limited supply of ammunition
- limited numbers and types of guns
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You guys have posted your "evidence" and I have posted mine, I'm not going to get into that loop again.
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A gun in the house theory has yet to be proven. They'll probably tell you it has, but I've shown enough contradictory evidence to at least question it.
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*le sigh*... MONEY does not = support. We've spent an assload more, trying to make up the difference *because* there is a lack of support.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: LurchWritten by:
in the UK where guns are heavily restricted/illegal, it is a fact that citizens are far less likely to face a gun, than are U.S. citizens.
You still haven't really established that it is the gun, and not the culture that would make these differences. If you remove gun, gun crime will go do, but will violent crime? There are specific places in the US where crime is rampent, but the majority is fairly calm. Oregon (roughly the same size as the UK) has very similar violent crime and murder rates, our gun rates are up yes, but it's just about the same violent crime per capita across the board. If you look at washington DC, the nations capital, has the strictest gun laws in the country, and some of the highest murder rates. California has far stricter gun laws than Oregon, slightly less gun deaths per capita, but nearly 3 times the homicide, and double the violent crime.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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Yes we posted evidence; you posted your opinions.
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Again Lurch all you do is post your opinion. When other peoples provide evidence that does not support your case you changed it until it does. I posted an example from a Canadian newspaper that said 220 people were killed in American school shootings in the last six years. You changed this to a couple people being killed, because "in your opinion" the others didn’t count. Talk about pulling the wool over your own eyes.
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Sheriff Bush’s solutions are based on cowboy “gun” mentality.
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It’s complete paranoia all these stories of having to protect your self from all these criminals running around America. You make it up to justify keeping guns.
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Still, it seems a bit of a co-incidence that, in the many countires where guns are heavily restricted/banned, gun crimes are at far lower levels than in the U.S. where guns are not heavily restricted.
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I guess the main value of the fact that gun crime is so low in the many cultures where guns are banned/restricted (UK and Europe and Australia) is that it does prove the following to be untrue-
1. civilian gun ownership leads to lowered gun crime
2. banning/restricting guns leads to a population of 'sheep'
3. banning/restricting guns 'diminishes', in any way, a culture
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If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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Why does Iran want a bomb for in the first place? Why does North Korea? Why is nuclear disarmament not on the table?
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To be honest, I didn’t make the connection between paranoia and - “Ken Elius, 32, Imperial Death Star guard, being pinned to the ground and handcuffed by the other Force – the Victorian police force - after he was spotting marching through the city with a replica laser blaster poking out of his backpack.” It’s a good point.
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Written by: LurchWritten by: ...
Yes we posted evidence; you posted your opinions.
I have posted many opinions, in that case however I posted multiple sources saying that the 'evidence' that you presented was manipulated, and not by any means 'fair and balanced.'
Written by: Lurch
#1 - Done
#2 - already discussed, you don't need a drug test to get a drivers license why would you need one for this?
#3 - Done
#4 - Done
#5 - Why?
#6 - Again, why?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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1) wrong - as seen in the VT shootings. Handing someone a gun, who is "a threat to himself" is irresponsible... try ropes instead.
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2) Is drug abuse a ciminal offence in your country?
Told you (many times) before: Drug (ab)use does alter someones perception and judgement. FACT! To me that would include alcoholism. An alcoholic with a gun (legal or not) - to me - is a nightmare, especially one that has a CCWP.
Try to approach this from a legal point of view (personal sympathies set aside).
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3) WRONG: If training and education would be "proper", there would be less gun related accidents than present, and ppl would neither leave them in other ppl cars, nor "trade them for food"!
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4) So ALL legally owned guns, gun owners are registered with the autorities? Not CCWP...
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5) A handgun can hold up to 10/ 15 rounds? For self defense you do not need to hold a high ammounts of ammunition. Limiting ammunition reduces the risk of abuse.
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One does not need to hold an arsenal of guns, if he intends to protect himself. IMNSHO 2 handguns/ 2 rifles should be absolutely sufficient and max .
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Violent crimes do not necessarily include guns. This discussion is about gun laws (and maybe double standards of US policies reflecting inter/ nationally). IMO We do not need to open focus to aggravated assault and the like, because it simply is not the topic here.
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London and Madrid, the attempted bombings in Germany are a direct result of US policies abroad.
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Maybe you try to live up to your responsibility at some stage in your life and take a closer look at coherences APART from your US media propaganda. This is a unique chance to exchange with real people abroad, to listen to what they have to say and why they say it. To get new evidence and aspects, that might - if incorporated - help you build that "greatest democracy on earth" in the vast future...
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Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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It makes their argument stronger to have the shock value in saying that *gasp* 220 people were involved in school shootings! The higher that number is the more outrageous it will seem, and sadly no one questions it, they just point and scream 'look at all the people!!'
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Why is disarmament not on the table? Because of MAD. I understand that mutually assured destruction probably goes against everything in you, but it *is* effective.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
Lurch, you said:Written by:
It makes their argument stronger to have the shock value in saying that *gasp* 220 people were involved in school shootings! The higher that number is the more outrageous it will seem, and sadly no one questions it, they just point and scream 'look at all the people!!'
So what’s the problem? 220 people were involved in school shootings. Sure, I’m making a point and I’m screaming “is not right or acceptable that all those people were killed at schools”. I’m surprised you see nothing wrong with this situation. You are even trying to lower the number of people killed by guns to hide a serious problem, make guns look better.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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