the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by Lurch
I'm all for reasonable restrictions on weapons, but as the Supreme Court just said, there is "nothing reasonable about an complete ban."
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :Stone
Faith, I like your idea of psych tests.Written by Faith
I'm sorry but I don't see what the Iraq war has to do with our domestic gun policies
I think it started when President Bush appointed John Howard, the then Prime Minster of Australia, his Deputy Sheriff.
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by : Stout
Tom, it's curious that you'd include bodyguards in your list of "approved" gun carriers. I side Lurch in his accusations of hypocrisy concerning what's her name and her armed bodyguards. Anti gun is anti gun and paying someone to do your "dirty work" for you is no excuse. So only the rich...those who can afford to pay bodyguards should be allowed firearms for self defense ?
Written by : Lurch
I've been saying that no *legally* owned Class 3 weapon has been used in a crime.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by : Telegraph
An American man accidentally shot dead his wife while trying to install satellite TV in their bedroom.
Ronald Long of Missouri did not own a drill, so he used his .22 calibre handgun to fire two shots into the wall of the room so that he could run a cable through from outside.
Mr Long's wife Patsy was standing outside the house when he fired the gun. She was hit by the second bullet and died from her injuries in hospital.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :FireTom
Lurch: Ain't that cheeky?Written by : Lurch
I've been saying that no *legally* owned Class 3 weapon has been used in a crime.
Meaning that *illegally* owned Class III weapons have been used in crimes?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by :FireTom
I just can't take your argumentation remotely serious anymore, if you continue to dismiss and ignore valid, reasonable arguments and scientific studies. Same (in this discussion) applies to OWD. I even start considering to have this thread locked.
Written by :FireTom
I even start considering to have this thread locked.
Written by :FireTom
*Turns to fading HAL voice Dave...... Dave....... Dave*
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by
Victims of gun violence called the expiration of the ban a tragedy. Tom Mauser of Littleton, Colo., said in a statement that "a small lobbying group" had triumphed over "the safety of our entire nation." He said he would protest Bush's visit to Denver today, wearing the shoes his son Daniel was wearing when he was killed in the massacre Columbine High School in 1999.
The law enforcement community is split between Kerry and Bush. The 236,000-member National Association of Police Organizations endorsed Kerry on Monday. He also has support from the 10,000-member International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the 30,000-member National Coalition of Public Safety Officers. The Fraternal Order of Police, with 318,000 members, endorsed Bush last week.
Written by OWD
Fact is, that what you, in your opinion, consider to be valid arguments and valid studies, are, in my opinion, somewhat dubious.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by
It’s obvious from the high level of gun violence in the USA that the biggest problem is with legal civilians who, for what ever reasons, are not responsible gun owners. Education has not proved effective in the past; therefore some people might have to give up some of their perceived rights for the good of the community. Unlikely, given the selfish nature of most gun owner as show by remarks such as “from my cold dead hands “ or “I’ll never give up my gun, never.”
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :FireTom
...I won't let him or you get away with blatant ignorance, erroneous arguments and by that creating a falsified view of reality and promote it.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Written by : Pyrolific
Unless the postings you are alluding to are breaking the rules (I think you will find they arent) then there really isnt anything you can do to stop anyone posting anything that you think is wrong.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :FT
- Ever heard of ballistic fingerprinting/ microstamping and full records on ALL guns, that would enable law enforcement to trace guns used in crimes back to their owners?
Written by :FT
- Ever heard of 2nd hand sales NOT requiring background checks, by that INCREASING the number of ILLEGAL guns?
Written by :FT
- So what's your *opinion*: why are so many (bad) guys (carrying guns (il/legal or not) in the US?
Written by :OWD
1. given that, by definition, any weapon used in a crime is being used criminally, is there much point in stressing the fact that no legaly owned class 3 weapon has been used in a crime?
Written by :FT
[ed]except for the ones that he feels to uncomfortably tackling his preconception....[/ed]
Written by :FT
In the meantime you could tell me how many hours you have undertaken in research and posting? I'm certainly in a three digit number - same applies to Lurch, Stone and Stout.
Written by :Stone
Anyhow, the problem I have is with the semi automatics, especially when kids can easily buy them and commit massacres like Columbine. Perhaps, the guns were purchased illegally, but this would not have been possible without the support of American gun culture ie. your so called law abiding citizens.
Written by :USATODAY
Kerry said, is that Bush caved to the NRA. "It is a test of character," he said. "In a secret deal, he chose his powerful friends in the gun lobby over the police officers and families that he promised to protect." He said Bush has made it easier for terrorists to do their jobs and harder for police to do theirs.
Written by :Stone
It’s obvious from the high level of gun violence in the USA that the biggest problem is with legal civilians who, for what ever reasons, are not responsible gun owners. Education has not proved effective in the past; therefore some people might have to give up some of their perceived rights for the good of the community. Unlikely, given the selfish nature of most gun owner as show by remarks such as “from my cold dead hands “ or “I’ll never give up my gun, never.”
Written by :Stone
The point is most suicides, accidents and acts of domestic gun violence are committed by responsible legal civilians, not “bad guys”. You consider yourself a good citizen. So put aside the “good guy-bad guy” scenario for a minute. Consider, how in all honesty you could not contemplate giving up your guns if it was for the good of the community?
Written by :Stout
I can't see including WMDs as a "logical" extension of the 2nd Amendment as part of this discussion at all. It's really just an extension of those hypothetical gun free utopias arguments that assume legally owned guns never pass into the hands of criminals. We could try the militia argument on this I suppose, but since this is about guns for self defense and all the misuse of those guns, it's more of a distraction than anything else.
Written by :US Supreme Court
JUSTICE STEVENS: May ask this question, Mr. Dellinger? To what extent do you think the similar provisions in State constitutions that were adopted more or less at the same time are relevant to our inquiry?
MR. DELLINGER: I think they are highly relevant to your inquiry because now 42 States have adopted constitutional provisions.
JUSTICE STEVENS: I'm not talking about those.
MR. DELLINGER: You're talking about at the time.
JUSTICE STEVENS: I'm talking about the contemporaneous actions of the States, before or at the time of the adoption of the Second Amendment.
MR. DELLINGER: I think that the -- the State amendments are generally written in different -in different terms. If you're going to protect the kind of right that is -- that is being spoken of here, different from the militia right, the plain language to do it would be "Congress or the States shall pass no law abridging the right of any person to possess weapons for personal use." And that's not the right that is created here.
One of the troublesome aspects of viewing this as a right of personal use is that that is the kind of fundamental liberty interest that would create a real potential for disruption. Once you unmoor it from -- or untether it from its connection to the protection of the State militia, you have the kind of right that could easily be restrictions on State and local governments and -
JUSTICE KENNEDY: Well, there's no question that the English struggled with how to work this. You couldn't conceal a gun and you also couldn't carry it, but yet you had a right to have it.
Let me ask you this: Do you think the Second Amendment is more restrictive or more expansive of the right than the English Bill of Rights in 1689?
MR. DELLINGER: I think it doesn't address the same subject matter as the English Bill of Rights. I think it's related to the use of weapons as part of the civic duty of participating in the common defense, and it's -- and it's -- it's -
JUSTICE KENNEDY: I think that would be more restrictive.
[...]
JUSTICE SCALIA: And as I recall the legislation against Scottish highlanders and against -against Roman Catholics did use the term -- forbade them to keep and bear arms, and they weren't just talking about their joining militias; they were talking about whether they could have arms.
MR. DELLINGER: Well, the different kind of right that you're talking about, to take this to the question of -- of what the standard ought to be for applying this, even if this extended beyond a militia-based right, if it did, it sounds more like the part of an expansive public or personal -- an expansive personal liberty right, and if it -- if it is, I think you ought to consider the effect on the 42 States who have been getting along fine with State constitutional provisions that do expressly protect an individual right of -- of weapons for personal use, but in those States, they have adopted a reasonableness standard that has allowed them to sustain sensible regulation of dangerous weapons. And if you -
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: What is -- what is reasonable about a total ban on possession?
MR. DELLINGER: What is reasonable about a total ban on possession is that it's a ban only an the possession of one kind of weapon, of handguns, that's been considered especially -- especially dangerous. The -
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: So if you have a law that prohibits the possession of books, it's all right if you allow the possession of newspapers?
Written by :FT
Maybe it's helpful to view the topic on an enlarged scale as to show the obvious. The US opposes nuclear arms to be held by Iran and North Korea. These countries are *bad* and irresponsible, they violate human rights. What about China, I ask you? They do have nuclear arms and never abused them. The US is even undertaking a great deal of cooperation with them. Why those ambiguities and this bigotry?
Written by :FT
maybe it's more useful in this context to accuse you of posting outright lies and 'made up stories' (as you did in the past) and by that you directly violate HoP posting guidelines
Written by :FT
- Why do you oppose ballistic fingerprinting/ microstamping and full records on ALL guns,
These measures IMO enable law enforcement to trace guns used in crimes back to their owners.
- Why do you oppose the regulation of 2nd hand sales that don't require background checks?
- Why do oppose banning "cash and carry" sales on gun shows that don't require background checks?
- Why do you oppose the regulation of gun sales to ppl under the age of 21?
These measures IMO are to prevent guns from getting into criminals hands or to be handled wrongfully and irresponsible.
Written by :FT
- How do you feel about the 2007 studies of Harvard Public School of Health, I posted earlier?
Written by :FT
- Have *ILLEGALY purchased* Class III weapons ever been used in crimes?
Written by :FT
What is YOUR suggestion to diminish the number of illegally owned guns in the US? Your proposal on how to reduce gun violence and gun accidents?
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by :LurchWritten by :OWD
1. given that, by definition, any weapon used in a crime is being used criminally, is there much point in stressing the fact that no legaly owned class 3 weapon has been used in a crime?
I definitely think there is a point to it. Criminals don't follow gun laws, they don't acquire their weapons through legal means, so can anyone explain to me how further restricting the guns that aren't hurting anyone is going to help?
Written by :LurchWritten by :FT
- Have *ILLEGALY purchased* Class III weapons ever been used in crimes?
Do you really have to ask that? Illegally buying a class 3 weapon would be a crime in itself, use some common sense here FireTom.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by : Lurch
Written by :
In the meantime you could tell me how many hours you have undertaken in research and posting? I'm certainly in a three digit number - same applies to Lurch, Stone and Stout.
Now now, play nice FireTom. I have no problem with OWD's posts, even if they were against me (they were in the beginning remember?). He argues with logic not statistics, I find his comments refreshing, well thought out, and relatively unbiased in an otherwise cyclical debate.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
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