Forums > Social Discussion > Alarming news: Frozen vegetables and butter

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I also heard 2 alarming things at coffee break, just there a minute ago. Be warned this is alarming.
1) Frozen vegetables are better for you than fresh vegetables
2) Butter is better for you than a spread, like low low

Both of these ideas go against everything I know and believe in, in this world. eek

So you could say my life has been turned upside down today. frown

I must research this and find out if there is any truth in these claims.


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Frozen better than fresh from the ground? I doubt it but I'd be willing to read anything that does prove it.

Butter has always been better for you than spread confused Why would anyone think otherwise? The only pro for spread is that is has slightly less fat (80%> for butter and <80% for spread).

Did you know margerine is actually grey in colour! When they invented it for the 1st world war none of the soldiers would eat it because of it's colour so they changed it to look like butter colour and voila! Lots of happy chappies in the trenches with their butties smile


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:mmmm

butter with no butter in it

milk with no milk in it

veges with no vege in em....

james, your upsetting my delicate psychological balance... dont leave me like this!!!!

wow, is any one else hung over?


Love is the law.

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted: Written by:

wow, is any one else hung over


Savagely. ubblol


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:About the butter, and the phrase "better for you", I really think that everyone's heath needs and risks are different. The phrase "better for you" is often purely individual depending on your body.

As someone with a tendancy for high cholesterol, it's important to keep to a low saturated fat diet. But I can eat as many calories and as much unsaturated fat as I want. For me, avoiding butter is important. Even 'heathy' things like cheese are unheathy for me. And 'unheathy' things like sugar aren't as much of an issue for someone like me who isn't overweight. There are lots of heathier spreads than regular margerine and butter, again, for me.

I could see some logic for frozen vegetables to be heathier in some aspects, for example, in places where transportation is limited and it would take days to get to. I wonder if frozen also traps some of the um... goodness. I dunno, I'm guessing. smile


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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted: Written by: Solas

Savagely. ubblol



I knew it...

posting about vegetables on a friday morning is a dead give away...

hey nyc

can you freeze goodness in? i always 'feel' like the frozen peas just dont the the same vitality you know? vitamins maybe... but goodness... maybe im being a bit esosteric about it...


Love is the law.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Oh hey, I'm right. Pesky antioxidents.

If the internet says so it must be true. smile


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Good point NYC.

Taste is got to be a factor too! smile I trust my taste buds too so maybe it's obvious about the butter...

But not obvious for the veg after lookinghere...

 Written by:

One study, by Dr. Barbara Klein, compared the Vitamin A and C content of frozen vegetables to fresh under typical storage conditions. Fresh green beans held for three days in a display case and three days in a refrigerator were compared to frozen green beans. Frozen vegetables retained twice the original amount of vitamin C than fresh green beans after storage. Dr. Klein's findings rebuffed the common assumption that fresh vegetables are always the most nutritious.


wink


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Makes sense actually. Freezing is really just making it cold. It's not actually altering it in a negative way.

I still won't eat my lima beans.


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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Frozen veges get picked at optimal time and probably less transport to the freezing place. Then they are in statis till we eat them. I have heard that they are better for you as well.
I prefer frozen veges compared to shop bought cold stored alternatives. I think they taste better....but homegrown ones are better.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:If there is a Hell, then vegetables are what you eat there. smile

I'm on the take multivitamins every day so I can eat all the "crap" I want plan. No vitamin deficiency here, just glorious bright yellow urine smile


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:ubblol bless your luminecent self!

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:You have to be carefull not to freeze them for too long though, the formation of ice crystals causes alot of damage to cells and well anything it freezes, ice can excert enough preasure too break apart boulders.

We have a chest freezer outside in one of the farm shed/building things and we cleared it out and found a layer of meat we had frozen a few years ago and we couldnt even tell what the meat was it was so manky with chillburn lol, it looked vile


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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rin_666
rin_666

enthusiast
Location: cambridge
Member Since: 30th Jul 2006
Total posts: 223
Posted: Written by: stout


No vitamin deficiency here, just glorious bright yellow urine smile



I may be being stupid here but how do you manage that? confused


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Motley
Motley

addict
Location: UK
Member Since: 9th Oct 2005
Total posts: 434
Posted: Written by: rin_666



 Written by: stout



No vitamin deficiency here, just glorious bright yellow urine smile





I may be being stupid here but how do you manage that? confused





Vitamin supplements can make your wee yellow smile or should I say yellowER



dehydration also makes your wee yellowER because your kidneys recover water from your urine and make it more concentrated



so either hes taking vitamin supplements or not drinking enough.. I'm guessing since he says no vitamin deficiency its the former smile

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=Flashpoint=
=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...
Member Since: 1st Sep 2004
Total posts: 2719
Posted:Joe: Freezing damages cells, but fast freezing doesnt (as much). Thats why your bag of peas is not a bag of mush.

Gods bless Wikipedia, the font of clicky knowledge


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:As for the yellow pee pee.
You find that a surplus of vitamin B12,
will give you glowing UV active day glow yellow pee pee.

Join the Glow piss club.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Raver Urine?

I think tonic water works also. Quinine or something.


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: Solas


I also heard 2 alarming things at coffee break, just there a minute ago. Be warned this is alarming.
1) Frozen vegetables are better for you than fresh vegetables
2) Butter is better for you than a spread, like low low




I see no reason why claim (1) would be true. Claim (2) is true in a limited fashion.

There are two types of unsaturated fatty acids, cis and trans. cis- fatty acids are found extensively in nature, trans-fatty acids are not. In butter, there are only cis- fatty acids, although there is also cholesterol. The body can metabolize and utilize these fatty acids.

Margarine is made by the catalyst-driven partial hydrogenation of saturated fatty acids to produce unsaturated fatty acids. In other words, margarine is made from liquid vegetable oil (with unsaturated fatty acids) into a solid by saturating the fatty acids. In the process, some trans-unsaturated fatty acids are produced. These are absorbed, but they are not metabolized and are eliminated from the body very slowly. They are thought to be related to the development of vascular disease (heart disease, strokes, etc.).

So although butter has cholesterol and tons of fat, margarine has trans- fatty acids and is probably worse for you.

Now, there are now new vegetable-based spreads that have high levels of omega-3 fatty acids and are free of trans-fatty acids. There is no evidence that these improve health in any way, but they're probably better for you than butter.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:-try mixing 1/3 flax or hemp oil, 1/3 mild flavour olive oil, and 1/3 butter for a healthy spread with a nice consistency and good flavour. Adjust the ratios for a flavour and consitency you like. Use it in moderation, like with all good things...

-if you eat fresh and *local* - like grow a garden and eat from it--I cant see how frozen could be better? Ice can't actually add anything?

I am loving all the local fresh organic food right now, it is heaven!


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Colin J
Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 24th May 2005
Total posts: 116
Posted:Some of my indian relatives say stuff like, wild animals have more 'power' than domesticated ones. Makes sense to me, a buffalo would kick the crap out of a cow. smile

By power they mean something like its life energy. when you consume something as food you take part of that in.

I've also noticed it in fruits. I'll get a much larger gain from eating a fruit within seconds of being picked. Its just more alive and in turn makes me feel more so too.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning


 Written by: Solas


I also heard 2 alarming things at coffee break, just there a minute ago. Be warned this is alarming.
1) Frozen vegetables are better for you than fresh vegetables
2) Butter is better for you than a spread, like low low




I see no reason why claim (1) would be true.



Mike, dude, scroll up. The antioxididents oxidize. It's not rocket science. Check the data on the vitamin C.


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Oh. Silly me.

My guess is that FRESH (like picked this afternoon) veggies are the best.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:I prefer my veggies covered in dirt from the local market. Picked the day before and beautiful ubblove

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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kash
kash

Dangerous cynic

Member Since: 22nd May 2006
Total posts: 166
Posted:Frozen fish is fresher than fresh fish too. This is because it is frozen as soon as it gets to shore, while "fresh" fish is only chilled then stored/transported for up to 2 weeks before it hits the shops. Fresh fish gives off more ammonia (a sign of decompostion) then defrosted frozen fish.

I would imagine this is the same with veggies, veggies frozen straight out of the field don't lose much and are comparable to freshly picked veggies, whereas fresh shop-bought veggies could have been harvested days or weeks ago.


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ickleMatt
ickleMatt

enthusiast
Location: L.O.N.D.O.N.
Member Since: 4th Apr 2006
Total posts: 242
Posted:The longer you cook veggies the more they lose nutrients. Therefore what YOU do with them has a bearing.

Personally I like my veggies kinda crunchy. If you cook frozen veggies less then you get slimey cold veggies!

I summise: fresh veggies are better for ME!

Oh and its butter all the way baby!


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dream
dream

currently mending
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 15th Jul 2003
Total posts: 493
Posted:without having any evidence either for or against this i have my doubts...

statements from birds eye (a major frozen food producer) and the american frozen food institute (with their oh-so-honestly named website healthyfood.org) are hardly likely to shout from the rooftops that frozen veg is massively inferior to fresh...

it seems a little like taking the American Society of Petroleum Geologists' (the oil indusrty in other words) word that climate change has nothing to do with anthropogenic fossil fuel related activities.

not saying its untrue... just that i'm quite cynical


He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Nietzsche

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: dream


without having any evidence either for or against this i have my doubts...

statements from birds eye (a major frozen food producer) and the american frozen food institute (with their oh-so-honestly named website healthyfood.org) are hardly likely to shout from the rooftops that frozen veg is massively inferior to fresh...

not saying its untrue... just that i'm quite cynical



It seems like there are lots of reputable independant references. And a decent amount of logical science.

"Freezing" is simply gettting something colder.

You can try this experiment at home:

Put one package of frozen veggies in the freezer. Put one in your fridge. Wait one year. Defrost them and eat them. See which one tastes better.

wink


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dream
dream

currently mending
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 15th Jul 2003
Total posts: 493
Posted: Written by: NYC

It seems like there are lots of reputable independant references





there really aren't.



though your qualifing term 'seems' may be true - but this is only with a very superficial glance at the sources given ie if you dont follow them up. which I suspect is purposeful deception.



the first article linked to is a UK tabloid article. It refers to two sources. The first is 'research by frozen food giant Birds Eye,' the second is an interview with someone descibed vaugely as a 'scientist' from Leatherhead Food International. Leatherhead describes itself as



 Written by: Leatherhead Food International website



as an independent, market driven, client-focused organisation.



LFI is regarded by over 1,000 companies from around the world as a preferred partner - for market intelligence, food research and analysis, food legislation, business and technical information and training. We are continually honing our skills to deliver added-value and innovative solutions consultancy to meet the rapidly changing needs of ingredient suppliers, manufacturers, retailers and foodservice businesses. Our client list reads like a whos who of the global foods and beverages market





now birds eye aren't on Leatherhead's client list which might lead one to believe there isn't a financial connection (and vested interest)... but their parent company Unilever are a client of Leatherhead.



The second link is to the Birds Eye website itself (obvious bias) and its link is to the American Frozen Food Institute.





Sorry but none of those sources (with the exception of the mirror which is simply reporting what the frozen food industry says)are without an obvious bias towards the industry. Unless you've done some research into it yourself and havent shared your sources with us there are no 'reputable independent references.'



As per my first post, I'm not saying it isn't true or debating what you claim is logical science - i just don't like trusting buisness's PR. If you have links to lots of independent reputable (peer reviewed) research please share


He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Nietzsche

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:I've seen reference to the frozen vs fresh veggies on Discovery channel. I'm not sure, but they could be in the pocket of "Big Vegatable"

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JauntyJames
JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2004
Total posts: 3533
Posted: Written by: NYC



 Written by: dream



without having any evidence either for or against this i have my doubts...



statements from birds eye (a major frozen food producer) and the american frozen food institute (with their oh-so-honestly named website healthyfood.org) are hardly likely to shout from the rooftops that frozen veg is massively inferior to fresh...



not saying its untrue... just that i'm quite cynical







You can try this experiment at home:



Put one package of frozen veggies in the freezer. Put one in your fridge. Wait one year. Defrost them and eat them. See which one tastes better.



wink





Dude, NYC? If you wait a year, it's no longer fresh. That's what fresh means. It's the same with your earlier point, it no longer contained as much vitamin C because it's no longer as fresh. I know I for one have never considered store bought vegetables as "fresh." For fresh vegetables, you need to hit a farmer's market or suchlike. We already know it doesn't do vegetables any good to sit around for day or weeks. It doesn't do prove anything comparing frozen vegetables to just vegetable that are just plain old.

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"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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