• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

Forums > Social Discussion > Air conditioning, global warming and the American *cough* Western way

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:This is a rant more than a debate. For more focused global warming threads please use the ones already available, this is just for the air-conners and inspired by Doc Lightnings Too Darned Hot thread in Social Chat. A thread I was surprised to read after reading this quote from the Doc himself



 Written by: Doc Lightning 11th Dec 03



Whether you believe that global warming is happening as dramatically as some would have us believe, you cannot ignore the fact that we have been pulling a lot of extra carbon out of the ground and reintroducing it into the biosphere. In the mean time, we are destroying ecosystems that could help to buffer that excess carbon.



We can't undo what we've done. That carbon we've introduced is going to stick around for millions of years. But we can slow, and eventually stop our use of fossilized carbon for fuel and start using renewable sources





Now this isn't a pop at the Doc, he's lovely, it's just an example that even those who are environmentally aware still put their own convenience before reducing their global impact. Something I am also guilty of frown



And this isn't just about our lovely Yankie doodle dandy friends over in the New World, but their excessive use of global energy for short term national (read personal) benefit is unrivalled.



I'd like to say I love america(n's) so it's nothing personal, raised a certain way you know no better wink (yes that is my tongue firmly wedged in my cheek)



So on with the post



I have a problem with Air Con, infact with most things that pollute the earth but especially air con. Even tho I have it in my car (not by choice) I only really use it if it's been sat in the sun for a few hours (in public so the windows/sunroof were closed) and I need to reduce the 50degree heat so my <1yo son can get into it. If I have a few minutes spare I will open the windows/sunroof and vent as much heat as possible without the unnatural intervention of aircon.



Our world is increasing it's average temperature faster than it ever has before. Regardless of natural cycles in weather patterns the rate of increase is far far more rapid than has ever been recorded in recent years (hundreds since records began) or proven by science over the past few millenia.

When the temp goes up so many people like to crank their air con up, in America the annual Gasoline (Petrol) consumption JUST to run vehicle air con units is equal to Indonesia's total oil consumption!!! Now seeing as Indonesia has 245m people and America has only 50m more at 295m there is an obvious and astounding imbalance.

How can indonesia, and indeed the rest of the world prior to Willis Haviland's 1902 invention, survive the heat so well without it when so many in present day think they need it just to be slightly more comfortable or because "they just can't take it" *puts back of hand to forehead and mock faints onto a sofa* regardless of the severly high carbon output from these heat transferring environmental disasters.



I agree there is a place for air con; some surgeries; essential equipment cooling etc but it's far far less than the amount we use.

50 years ago there was barely a demand, now the demand has been conveniently created by the sellers of these devices the world is being driven even further into long term environmental chaos in return for very very short term benefits and profiteering.



Ultimately air con is self propogating; leaving an air con building and entering 30 degree heat makes it feel more like 40 degrees. Once you've crossed the road to the deli or dohnut shop wink you're back into air con and appreciating is because "it's so damn hot outside" and so the cycle continues. After growing in this world it's easy to understand that so many people think they can't survive without it, if only they'd think outside the box a little, or even just think a little and realise what huge damage is being caused for our and our future generations in return for such miniscule personal benefit.



I'm no saint myself, I have a carbon footprint far bigger than it should be and I work everyday to try to reduce it. Born into a western capitalist world I need certain tools to survive daily life, I also know no better, but I'm trying my best to live in harmony with mother nature and reduce my carbon consumption every day. After all she's the boss, I'm just a little bug that lives on her, if I kill her I won't have anywhere to live any more frown



The modern use of comfort air con as apposed to process air con is bascially fuelled by economy. Putting the profit penny before the health of the world, it's sick.



If you have time please read THIS article. It's quite long but very well written and detailed.



I don't really expect many replies to this thread, but feel free to rant against the airconners with me if you want to smile If anyone feels they can justify their house hold or workplace (ie office not process) air con please do so, I'd like to hear it.



[/rant]


Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete Topic

Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Good post there Dunc, it takes guts to admit cowardice. I'm no better than anybody else however I am loathe to point fingers at others when I'm comitting many of the same "crimes" myself.

Ok, off to work ( driving, 8 minutes, no ac ) Time to use my hippy artwork to lighten the wallets of well heeled international travellers.


Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Dunc


Well you haven't seen a Blame America sentiment in this thread!



Um... you called "The American Way" a nasty disease that is being spread around the globe. You then discussed how horrible Air Conditioning is and said that the spread of Air Conditioning has come directly from America.

In what context is that not Blaming America?

[Note: I'm not actually cranky or upset, I'm just raising an eyebrow and pointing to an inconsistancy.]


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:Yeah ok fair enough, even if it was in a different threa I can admit my error there smile



The first part was all meant in a more sarcastic tone, sorry. I do mean most (erm...all) global capitalism. Japan, Europe and America are all to blame for turning the rest of the world into what it is and after all we did 'create' America once we nabbed it off the native peoples.



"The American Way" is a common analogy here, it's always meant tongue in cheek when talking comically (sp?) about wasteful consumption and obviously not all that common a sarcastic phrase IN America.



The second part about the AC I stand by what I said and if you think that blame or criticism counts as America Bashing I think you're being over sensitive and taking it very personally. As I'm sure I saw you write somewhere you didn't vote for GWB, and I doubt you're old enough to have been there at the beginning of it all either so don't count yourself as part of the cited cause of the spread of AC around the globe if you know you aren't part of it smile



So with some resolve....can we get back on topic or start a new one on America bashing perhaps? I can then proclaim my innocence in everything in a whole new thread wink ubbangel


Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Maybe "The Modern Way" or something along those lines would alleviate any discomfort. After all the problem we're referring to really is a global issue that has to be addressed by most every country on the planet.

Delete

Eera


old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:How does air con in a warm climate compare to central heating in a cold one?

I bought two air cons the other day, and the thing when you use them a lot, you get the most efficient one you can afford. Both my models are inverters with five star efficiency rating, both are set to the recommended minimum 25C, on top of this I recently spent $5000 to have solar hot water so I wasn't using electric there. My quarterly electricity bill is never over $80, I recall from living in a central heated house with electric hot water that the quarterly bill was always in the GBP120 mark ($300).


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Delete

Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:For me using air con for comfort when you could quite easily survive living at 35 degrees is not justified where as central heating when it's less than 5 degrees and could cause you many health problems and deteriorate the condition of your house etc is justified.
No matter how relatively efficient the air con machine is it's still infinately more pollutant to manufacture the units and then run them compared to not having them at all and just living in normality.

clap on the solar panels clap


Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I'd say that in many parts of the U.S. aircon is as necessary as centeral heating. Yesterday, in conservation with American tourists I heard about how you need a cloth just to open then door of your car, otherwice you risk getting burned ( Phoenix, AZ )

Can't have a bbq out on the back deck, too hot, too humid, have to sit in the aircon house and admire the deck from there ( Georgia )

You call this a heat wave? I like YOUR heatwaves ( Houston )

Our climate sucks, that's why we're here ( Florida )

I'm just glad I live in a place where we don't need aircon ( almost nobody here has it in their homes ) because I personally don't like it, it bothers my sinuses


Delete

Eera


old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:It is far easier to survive low temperatures; put some more clothes on. Heat and humidity saps the very energy from your bones. The UK does not experience that sort of weather for months at a time.

So correct me if I'm wrong but you say having central heating is OK, but air con (which you generally have INSTEAD of heating) is a bad thing? I can't speak for people in the US but here we have a fan heater which we turn on for maybe a total of 30 hours during the year. I reckon that balances out in favour of the air con.

Additionally, we live in the tropics; we don't have four seasons, we have the Wet and Dry, and during the Wet your washing doesn't dry, mould grows everywhere and paper deteriorates very fast unless you dehumidify the air, and that climate control is the massive benefit of air con.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Delete

polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:Definately not an American or west only thing (That's just what we see on TV). Tokyo apartments have AC like London apartments have lightbulbs. Likely the same anywhere it's hot that has cheap electricity.



Thing is, Tokyo is a lot hotter than the surrounding countryside, firstly because of all the people pumping out heat, then the electrical equipment (AC included), cars and other motor vehicles, then the fact that the AC is pumping all the heat out of the buildings into the surrounding air. The concrete also holds the heat in overnight like a storage heater, instead of it just being released into space.



In the countryside we just switched all the shutters for ones made of mosquito screen, and let convection draw air through the building.



Nothing beats a tree canopy though.


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Dunc



For me using air con for comfort when you could quite easily survive living at 35 degrees is not justified where as central heating when it's less than 5 degrees and could cause you many health problems and deteriorate the condition of your house etc is justified.







I guess the 20 New Yorkers that died in the latest blackout were just not trying. Typical Lazy Americans. wink



On topic, I was thinking about this and I think there's also a big difference between night-time temperatures. 'Hot' places like Los Angeles don't have AC as commonly because it cools off every night.



There's a huge difference between 35C at noon and 35C at midnight. As someone who just lived through 'the hottest UK summer in history' wink I can assure you, it's not hot ANYWHERE in the UK at midnight. I remember as a kid sleeping without AC in New York and it was way horrible.



Heh, just peeked at the weather and at midnight tonight it will feel like 33C in Miami and only 21C in LA. Compare that to an Average summer low of 12C in London and 10C in Edinburgh.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: Dunc


For me using air con for comfort when you could quite easily survive living at 35 degrees is not justified...



Human body temperature is 37 degrees. In fact, a human body at 35 degrees ambient temperature with high humidity CANNOT survive for an extended period of time. The cause of death is usually dehydration because the heat makes the brain not quite work right and not notice that it needs to drink. Sheer hyperthermia can also affect the overdressed. Babies DIE in 35 degree temperatures, especially when humid (you have one, if I recall...so listen carefully) and it happens strikingly quickly (a few hours).

The solution would be to raze New York City and re-build it as an energy-efficient city that isn't a complete wind screen and heat pile. But that's not feasable, so for the mean time we need to figure out how to more efficiently build new buildings and their A/C systems. Central A/C systems also need to be mandated in all buildings because the waste from a central system is much less than the waste from an equivalent number of window units each cooling its own room. Our hospital has no central A/C and it's decorated with window units sticking out of every window and it disgusts me (and doesn't keep the building cool).

I agree that the problem feeds in on itself, but the solution is renewable energy sources that stop the production of greenhouse gases. Like working out some acceptable commercial nuclear fusion systems.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Just to keep this from everyone slagging people with central heating off in turn - before central heating got common in "cold" countries people were dying from the cold, too, or getting pneumonia etc... again we're mostly talking old people/sick people/children. But I don't think slagging each other off with "noone dies from xyz" helps the debate tongue

I remember arguing with NYC about the cold winter in New York because for me it just wasn't cold enough to complain wink

By the way, it's also a lot to do with what you're used to! I know many people here who've actually been unwell from the UK heatwave, just because their body isn't adjusted to it. I had a reputation in Germany for being uncomfortable with the heat and I'm fine here, but for someone who's used to 12C nights a few nights at 20C can be quite straining, too.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

Delete

MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:What about, say, evaporative airconditioning? Those really big boxes you see on some roofs?

Admittedly, they're not good for humid places, but they aren't too bad if its dry. Only use a fan and a little pump.

Oh, and how many people here that don't like a/c have a fridge? May as well chuck that out, cos it's the same damn thing.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [air conditioning global warming american cough western way] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > Air conditioning, global warming and the American *cough* Western way [43 replies]
2. Learn > Diabolo > Good Skills > air stall *help/resource
3. Learn > POI > Orbitals & airwraps > air wrap bumps *help/resource
4. Learn > Cartoons, Fun, Jokes > Pictures, Cartoons, Meme > Air Traffic Controller learns spatial awareness *help/resource air traffic controllers improve spatial...
5. Learn > POI > Wraps > air wrap variations *help/resource to catch and reverse your in plane air wraps  this tutoral also shows you...

     Show more..