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Forums > Social Discussion > Girl, 6, dies at fire eating show: BBC news

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Bad news:
Girl, 6, dies at fire eating show:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5239986.stm
br>
Brithish Girl in Turkey 3 days ago.also 6 others injured.

Any one know any more information.
frown
Drew


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pitman
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pitman

addict
Location: swansea

Total posts: 544
Posted:Yeah this sucks I feel so bad for the little girls family, and I also feel bad for the performer having to live with what he has done, but some good has hopefully come from this accident. Performers around the world will here of this one way or another so at least people will hopefully be more careful when performing.

DONT DO DRUGS THERE BAD FOR YOU.
SO GIVE THEM ALL TO ME AND I WILL GET RID OF THEM FOR YOU!

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Not too sure pitman.

People will hear that he used petrol and quite possibly ASSUME that you use petrol and something else went wrong, like the container being the wrong type or something.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted: Written by: pitman


... I also feel bad for the performer having to live with what he has done...



That's if he's ok, he is still in critical condition at hospital...
frown


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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Posted:in the mail yesterday (admitedly a [censored] newspaper) it sed sumthin about the guys baton not lighting and a waitor came ova and poured some alcohol on it and it still ddnt light so he poured the whole bottle over it and thats wen the explosion happened, completely different story to all the others ive heard but it was quite a recent report. horrible thing to happen however it happened.

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Yeah, I heard the same story in the Metro, again not the best source of info. but I think all the accounts of what happened are a bit hazy...

Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/5243406.stm
br>


and



http://www.cumberland-news.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=397121
br>


Quotes from the above-



 Written by:





He added: "It was a fire display of a sort which is fairly commonly seen in Turkey.



"You pour some meths on the ground and set fire to it, producing a very wispy 6in flame that dies out very quickly.



"They did it once, then they poured the bottle on top to do the thing again. Unfortunately there was a small spark that hadn't died out from the first display.















 Written by:





Mark Hunter, from Carlisle, the father of 13-year-old Sarah Hunter who suffered burns during the display, said the problems started after the entertainers tried to repeat the dance.



"It was at this point there was a massive explosion and the fireballs produced went into the audience, and it was this time that there was total chaos and that people suffered their injuries," he said.

















 Written by:





They'd just put the record on again, and were going to do the same again with the bottle of flammable liquid when it blew up in the barman's hand. It was a massive explosion.

I saw a huge blue flame, and felt the heat. There was a fireball, which travelled across the room. Sarah's chair was on fire and my skirt was burning.









 Written by:





Earlier reports that the accident had involved a fire-eater have now been discounted, but according to one Turkish newspapers the head of the Altinkum resort, Kamil Koyun, was arrested as police began their investigation into the tragedy this week.











Sounds like it wasn't a fire breathing, eating,spinning or juggling act.



Nevertheless, if, as the article suggests, this was the result of meths, it's highly relevant to those many performers who use fuels other than paraffin in their acts.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Mark P
BRONZE Member since Oct 2001

Mark P

old hand
Location: Bath, England

Total posts: 1031
Posted:OK,

I have read 2 english newspaper repots on this and then looked at the links from here. I quite often include some Firebreathing Hazards of Fire Breathing in my displays so I have analysed this a bit and here are my views.

The fuel has been described as petrol, meths, ethyl alcohol or ethyl alcohol acetyl druing these reports.

If it was a fire performer doing breathing, which a paper in the uk showed a picture suggesting, (even though they had the caption of 'A Fire Eater'), then none of these fuels are actually appropiate as they are too volatile. If this was a fire eater then I could see the use of an alcohol based fuel. Alcohol based fuels are a lot more volatile and therefore it is the vapour burning (which means lower temps involved aswell) and the flames will probably be easier to extinguish.

If you were using a pure alcohol based fuel, it would burn with a fairly translucent but blue flame which several of the reports mentioned. This could be used by a performer to lay a trail which would ignite and 'firewall' effect.

In the reports there are also mentions of the 'barman' having the fuel and using it when the explosion happened.

Maybe these reports are not telling the whole story?

My thoughts are with all involved, those hurt, the family of the little girl killed, the performer and the sad loss of life involved. For people who perform, professionally or for fun, in public areas this is a good reminder to make sure all safety measures are in place and no shortvuts are taken.

Mark P x


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:ditto

Those reports rarely tell the entire true story... problem now is also that initially papers were talking about a fire-eating accident - now even if there was no fire performer involved, people will still refer to this initial headline.

Researching the headlines I can only find one version released in German language, indicating that the flames jumped from his torch to the container in his hand, which then exploded... I guess he used glass (if) he just wanted it to appear "nicer" than a plastic container - which wouldn't have generated such force.

Usage of fast fuels can be really scary sometimes and requires EXXXTRA caretaking!

However there should never be "routine" in dealing with fire and fuels - it should always been treated as the very first time - with caution and respect...

Maybe this suffering will at least generate additional awareness with the performers... maybe preventing some worse accidents... I hope


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:really bad news, it's times like hese that I'm glad 1 member of my fire group is acually a registered fireman he has all the fire safety info as well as the brigades recommendations for performances using fire and has no qulams about stopping or not doing a gig if there is a (likely) chance someone will get hurt.

Although this is terible there will always be reports of some kind based around a hobby / skill, of people getting hurt. It's always horrible to see and even worse when it's something you do.

I wish those injured a speedy recovery. frown


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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peggalicous


member


Total posts: 26
Posted:how terriably tragic.. my deepest condolences to the family.. please pass this on if anyone can

Little Angels

When God calls little children to dwell with Him above,
we mortals sometime question the wisdom of His love. For no heartache compares with the death of one small child, who does so much to make our world seem wonderful and mild. Perhaps God tires of calling the aged to His fold, so He picks a rosebud before it can grow old. God knows how much we need them, and so He takes but few, to make the land of heaven more beautiful to view. Believing this is difficult still somehow we must try, the saddest word mankind knows will always be "Goodbye". So when a little child departs, we who are left behind, must realize God loves his children, Angels are hard to find.

Author Unknown


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Psyri
SILVER Member since Apr 2003

Psyri

artisan
Location: Berkshire, UK

Total posts: 1576
Posted:This is shocking. It is indeed a freak occurance but in my opinion one that shouldnt have happened. I dont want to re-iterate how careful most fire performers are.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:The problem is, as noted, this completely illustrates the widespread view of "officials" that we are dangerous.
The very fact that reporters were keen to jump up and shout "Fire Performer!" (insert one style here) and knowing the history of most of these types of incedents with fire involved it won't matter. They will be lumped as fire performers and it will be lumped.

When pyrotechnics go badly, we feel the reprocussions.
This will be no different.

Luckily for me, it never made the media here. No Americans were involved so it wasn't viewed as important (it's the first time stupid reports are actually in my favor).

I feel bad for the families involved.
I am shocked at how many bars and resorts acts such as this. It's sad.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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brittle
GOLD Member since May 2006

brittle

member
Location: leicester, uk

Total posts: 131
Posted:so does anyone actually know what happened in the end?

What to do in case of fire??? LET IT BURN!

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Alcohol was poured on the stage and ignited. Before it was fully out, it was repoured. The stream ignited from the flame that was left, followed the liquid back and blew up the bottle.
Pieces of bottle and flaming liquid went into the audience.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:The bottle actually blew up? How'd that happen? Was the bottle tightly sealed and allowed to sit in the flames until the content's actually boiled, causing an explosion?

Would an unsealed bottle of alcohol actually explode?

I propose another scenario. The ( assumably large ) bottle of alcohol caught fire in the barman's hand, and he quickly dropped it. I also suspect they were using gasoline as a fuel too. one report gave the flame height on stage as six inches, another gave it as 18 inches, what was it ?


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted: Written by: stout


The bottle actually blew up? How'd that happen? Was the bottle tightly sealed and allowed to sit in the flames until the content's actually boiled, causing an explosion?

Would an unsealed bottle of alcohol actually explode?

I propose another scenario. The ( assumably large ) bottle of alcohol caught fire in the barman's hand, and he quickly dropped it. I also suspect they were using gasoline as a fuel too. one report gave the flame height on stage as six inches, another gave it as 18 inches, what was it ?



Actually, it was alcohol.
The flames traced the fluids back into the bottle.
It does cause thin glass to explode.
I've seen it.
Hell, there've been known explosions from fumes tracing across a yard to a fuel container and exploding.(ask Riz about that one)

I'm on a pro-fire eaters group. One of the members works for a resort agency. We can not put the statements made there public but that is what happened. It also was released in the news somewhere.

BTW, in the reports, you have to read carefully, it says that they started at about 18" high and then burned down to about 6 from them and then *seemed* to have gone out. However, there was enough flame left to cause issues when additional fuel was poured down.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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