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Distorted Silence


member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 217
Posted:Possibly a subject thats been posted before but...

I went and had another little chat with staff at juggleart to find out some rather disturbing news... and I felt I should spread it around.

Fibre glass wicking is quite deadly. there is a boy of 20 years of age who from using the fibre glass wicking is now suffering from cancer based on the inhalation of the fibre glass fragments from his wicks. Its said that he wont live to see next year.
Now its also said that because fibre glass is so much cheaper than kevlar, people are going around and selling it at twirling groups, where you find it hard to tell the difference between fibre glass and cotton kevlar.

Well, it may be expensive, but i know that im sticking to the real stuff.


You've got to move fast to beat the Devil - Your arm's too short to box with God.

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:that's very interesting and disturbing. Was the guy twirling 7\8 hours a day, or was he manufacturing the wicking or making toys for retail sale? I find it really hard to believe that I am inhaling dangerous levels of fibre glass by twirling fire for a couple of hours now and then.

Lots of kevlar wicking is a fibreglass/kevlar blend, supposedly to increase the life of the wick. I'd be interested to know if using that was any more carcinogenic than sitting in front of a computer all day long.


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Distorted Silence


member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 217
Posted:hrm, a bit more detail...

from twirling with the fibreglass (i believe it was completely fibre glass) the inhaled bits got caught in his lungs, and then the cancer formed around the fibre glass. the meds traced it down to his staff.


You've got to move fast to beat the Devil - Your arm's too short to box with God.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Let me look this up and see if fiber glass causes lung cancer. It sounds fishy because normally, things don't cause cancer that quickly, even asbestos.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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fireboy


An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia

Total posts: 252
Posted:might i note: fibreglass when burns makes small fragemets like aspestos and cuts your lung...and that with the deadly fumes would go directly into your bloodstream or elsewhere oh dea...
hey distorted silence tell leonie from juggle art hi from brock when your next there please:).
fibreglass bad
kevlar gooooood


Fireboy

<<SINister miNISister>>
remeber kids jesus slaves

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:this is kinda messed up.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:It may depend on the type of fibreglass he was using to, there is many diffrent consitancies. Does anyone know if fibreglass is pure glass or if there is additives? glass it's self is really hypoalogenic. But glass crystals stuck in your lungs are still glass crystals stuck in your lungs I suppose it doesn't matter how hypoalogenic it is.

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:That is such a crock of SH!T.

I am a construction worker.In my time in the trades I have used a number of materials that all contained some kind of fiber glass i.e. building insulation,duct wrap insulation,fire wrap insulation,etc,etc.Mind you these forms of fiber glass are in a loose form so the fibers come apart from the material very easily and just being near them means you are breathing them in.Granted I feel one day they will outlaw fiber glass the same way they did asbestos but people work with fiber glass every day without these kind of problems.

Also there is more to the story than you are being told.Maybe this person was allergic to fiber glass or has a history of lung cancer in his family.Even asbestos won't kill you that fast.Not to mention not all people will develop asbestosis and can work with it with minor consequence to their health.Workers used to have snow ball fights with asbestos.Just like workers I have met who have slept in fiber glass insulation.

Sometimes in my opinion a doctor will come up with these scenarios because there is no real explanation.Not so long ago I read an article wherein a doctor rooted an infection of the brain to a tongue ring.In reading the article and from my own knowledge of the piercing I deduced the real reason for the infection but nonetheless people still think you can get a brain infection from a tongue ring.


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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:quote:Originally posted by poiaholic22:
people still think you can get a brain infection from a tongue ring. thats gotta be the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life.
i've been piercing myself for over 7 years now, and totaled over 250-300 piercings on my own body, and never had a serious infection or any thing i have had probably 4 minor infections that have cleared up in a few days on their own.
i'd like to meet that doctor and educate him.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Yeah PK and we all know everyone has the exact same immune system and circumstances surrounding their piercing's as you did.

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Zoltar
BRONZE Member since Nov 2002

Zoltar

Beginner
Location: Beyond Time, South of Melbourn...

Total posts: 282
Posted:I've never had any piercing complications either, but some people's bodies have an aversion to foriegn metal and get infected.
Pk are you saying that you are sporting that number of piercings now? I can't think of where they would all go


So much fire, so little body hair...

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Distorted Silence


member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 217
Posted:hey poiaholic i was just trying to give warning from what i heard.

You've got to move fast to beat the Devil - Your arm's too short to box with God.

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:And we appreciate it, thanks Distorted Silence.

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:i only sport 14 now adays and 2 implants, and too much ink.
i do new stuff now and again, but not very often, my ears seem to scare people enough.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:What do you have for inplants? Inplants are nifty.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:actually, when you are burning fiberglass it is different than just "sleeping on insulation", or any other form of contact. burning it creates a mist of fine particles, with are easily inhaled. Your body cant do anything with these glass particles, so they are there for a very long time, possibly forever. I know people who were in car crashes ten years ago who are still pulling peices of glass out of their skin.

It is also interesting to note that 98% of the people who got cancer from "working in asbestos factories" were also cigarette smokers. There are still bad things about inhaling that kind of stuff (glass fibers, asbestos). But, it seems carcinogenic chemicals (which are also contained it the fumes from fire twirling) play an important part of cancer development. AND There were still 2% of people who got cancer, and didn't smoke cigarettes.

About the brain infection....actually, is is possible. If they got a blood infection from the peircing (very easy, considering the size of some of the blood vessles in the tounge, and considering some people's hygenic habits) the infection could have easily gotten to the "blood brain barrier" and once there, it is possible for the bacteria (or whatever) to cause damage. Most people have no problem (aside from talking, chewing, breaking teeth LOL) with a tounge peircing. Bacteria can be wicked though.

now I am a little worried though, because there is fiberglass in our wicks, in if they are "well worn"" some of that fiberglass is exposed. On fire ropes, it would be advisable to glue the ends with white glue, to keep them from unraveling and exposing fiberglass. Not a bad idae to glue the edges of your wicks too.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Well said PH22. Rumors are dangerous.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:Distorted Silence,I didn't mean to come across in a demeaning way I was just trying to disspell what to me sounds like bologna in as fast a manner as possible.Sorry.

Also I have had my tongue pierced three times and gauged about 8-9 times.The story was that a girl,I think she was from Missouri,got her tongue pierced and because she didn't take care of it properly it got infected.Well taking the advice from her doctor she removed it because of the infection. This is a big no-no.Never remove a piercing that is infected as it can form an abscess due to not being able to drain. The infection stayed in her tongue and then proceeded to spread to her brain.Fortunately they were able to save her life.

Moral of the story:There is always more to the story than meets the eye.


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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Rumours are only dangerous if they spread quickly with no substantiated facts.

I must admit the whole story surrounding this concept seems flawed to me in many ways.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take in the warning as a cue to do our own research.

I've emailed juggleart and asked them for as many solid, researchable details as they have. So i can look into it more closely. Hopefully i'll be able to track the hospital itself down and get us some concrete facts.

Remember almost every rumour will be greatly exagerrated, but it doens't mean it's beginnings weren't from a true story originally.

Thank you, Distorted Silence, for bringing this to our attention, and thank you to everyone who has so far expressed their views.


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* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:hey astar i have a 10mm bead in my left wrist and a 4mm bar in my left forearm under one of my tattoos. also done a few pockets not so long back.
mostly all seriously guaged piercings left now.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Just a little NZ site for those who want to look at the details (this site may be biased but at least there are a few facts about industrial fibreglass used for insulation

Fibreaware.org.nz


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* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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fireboy


An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia

Total posts: 252
Posted:quote: when you are burning fiberglass it is different than just "sleeping on insulation", or any other form of contact. burning it creates a mist of fine particles, with are easily inhaled. Your body cant do anything with these glass particles, so they are there for a very long time, possibly forever. -santanatwo

quote: might i note: fibreglass when burns makes small fragemets like aspestos and cuts your lung...and that with the deadly fumes would go directly into your bloodstream or elsewhere oh dea...- fireboy


evedently poiaholic22 has some knowledge of firbeglass when not burned.


well i have to edit this...to hostil
meh
well poiaholic22 no hard feelings, apparently when my sarcasm get out of hand someone looses an eye (yet again sarcasm)
so to put it to a simple way
fibreglass bad when burnt.....

*walks off muttering that they murderd fireboy's post, starts to cry and runs off in a unfashionable manner*

[ 16. February 2003, 14:43: Message edited by: fireboy ]


Fireboy

<<SINister miNISister>>
remeber kids jesus slaves

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Fireboy I think that post was necessarily hostile.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Fireboy, I'd be curious to see your medical research which supports that claim.

The only ingredient which has been actually proven to cause cancer in humans is the kerosene. Therefore your "kevlar good" comment is ignorant as well.

I'm unsure why you feel necessary to be condescending and aggressive on this board. Suggesting that someones childhood brain damage is the cause for post is ignorant, hateful, and antagonistic. And insulting someone by suggesting they "might need help" is purely looking for a fight.

If you have any medical evidence that what you are saying is right, post it. If you just want to hurt something so you can feel self important, buy a kitten.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Yeah if you have pent up rage take it out on a baby animal.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I don't see how Fireboy's post was in any way hostile. I think he was pointing out the fact that you guys are missing a major point here...

PEICES OF GLASS IN YOUR LUNGS!!!

"I'm not a smart man...jennay" but the last time I checked, glass and asbestos cannot be easily removed by your body because they form little "hooks" and sharp edges that cut your lungs every time your inhale and exhale. They are also "hypoalergenic" which means your body doesn't even know they are there, which also means your body doesn't know it needs to remove them, (even if it could).

It is like little razor blades in your lungs. This causes scar tissue and other little nasty things to happen (possibley including, but not limited to DEATH DEATH DEATH) due to the contantly open wounds in your lungs. The last time I check, having glass in your body isn't a real good idea.

For you guys to "demand" scientific proof is a little premature, because it already exists. You remember the fact that asbestose has been heavily banned in the USA? Why? I think it is called cancer....

I think Fireboy IS wrong on one thng. It is not likely for a lot of that glass to make it into your blood steam. It doesn't matter though, because it doesn't realy do the most damage in your blood stream.

Those little particles also have the potential to do physical damage to your DNA, because they are shreading your cells ever time your breath. Damaged DNA is like THE cause of cancer. You can take that one to the bank.

I, like fireboy, am not trying to be hostile, or stat a fight. I am attempting to show you all the reasoning behind it.

In addition, you are burning hydrocarbon fuel, something which DOES release some amount of bad stuff (carcinogenic). In adition to the peices of glass in your lungs, this creates the identical conditions that working with asbestos and smoking cigarettes produces. This is somewthing that IS scientificaly proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

please consider what I have said very carefully. We are only saying all this for YOUR protection. If we were attacking you, we would be worried about YOUR health. But we care about you people.



we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:Point here for people....
Fire eaters?
wick inside of mouth, mostly when flame is presant!! big problem.
could be inhaled from particles left on their tongue or oral faculties?


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Satanatwo you know it is possible to make a point without flameing and hostility. Infact flameing and hostility really undermines most points including the one fireboy is makeing.

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:i think he had a good point to his post. maybe just got read in the wrong context?

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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fireboy


An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia

Total posts: 252
Posted:AHHHHHHHHHHH not hostile just making it a very blaeten fact most of you missed the whole point ot the topic.....
except for santanatwo, thanks for agreeing with
sorry to all who thought it was complete and utter agryiness (last post which i had to edit)
my sarcasm can kill people (yet again sarcasm.
i just wanted to mock some people, not say they actually had brain damage which some people enteripited *cough charles cought*

i just find it a tad annoying when people miss the whole point of A) a topic.
B) a situation

*note to all: if i have edit this post i will shoot myself because i am not attacking anyone in this post (i think)*


Fireboy

<<SINister miNISister>>
remeber kids jesus slaves

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fireboy


An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia

Total posts: 252
Posted:Well, when fibreglass is burnt (i will let you read above where santanatwo has made it more explainable to you all).
but....... when it is burn it does relese some toxic fumes, and with cut lungs, it could enter the blood streem. and also the lungs supply oxygen to the heart immedaly, so when you breath in the fumes from the fibre glass it will A) cut your lungs due to the small fragments of glass in the smoke (not immeadly, but over a long period of time).
and B)like being a smoker some of the toxic fumes are inhaled and will eventually go to the blood stream and else where.

thats mine 2 cents
*not an attack on anyone yet again*

peace be with you all


Fireboy

<<SINister miNISister>>
remeber kids jesus slaves

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