Forums > Advanced Staff moves > Doubles Isolated Antispin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

 Written by: mcp


Somebodies got to say SOMETHING in order to have a discussion.



you're right.

the area of antispin technique that monkey and i have been going on about obviously doesn't engage you too much at the moment, and since this was supposed to be a thread on how you can combine two sticks using basic antispin, i won't keep banging on about 2nd order antispin compound patterns...

sorry, again


on a completely different note:

butterfly weaving is confusing by itself since it involves mixing spin/antispin but seems much more akin to regular spinning than any of the same direction spin/antispin mixed patterns.

of course, you could quite easily do two ++ patterns at the same time, going in opposite directions - that's doubles antispin utilising isolation.

(-- checks thread title --)

yes! i said something on topic!

better sort that out right now...


after spending just five minutes drunkenly playing with two acylics last night, i have given up on sticks for anything bigger than the ++

you can make *massive* complex antispin patterns just sitting on the floor palmspinning two balls

just joining up crosses with boxes totally broke my brain

i'm afraid four balls (like two sticks) is just too much to comprehend at the moment.





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

yeah, pich has an overhead camera/projector setup that he uses to perform with i believe.

whereas, i'm not a performer so i don't care at all that no-one else gets to see the beauty in my hands

as you well know, to get those crosses really clean, you have to be well down with the bendy diamond hand pattern - doing this will, i'm certain, bring you around to the opinion that just moving your hand in circles (rather than in specific shapes that accentuate different parts of the antispin pattern) is crap

"making a cross anti-spin travel over two crosses that don't cross your body (forwards and forwards, instead of forwards and reverse) is possible too, just with having to make an infinity sign around the points instead of doing them in the order that the monkey states. Might look alright if it was hella tight."

i'm assuming you mean to do it on the right then do it on your right, then on your left in wheelplane?

if you do the cross in an 'infinity path order', the infinity sign must be 'folded' around you so the join is the crossover point in front of you.

relative to someone watching you from your side, you are always going the same way round the circles and they see an overlapping cross - is this not just an antspin double fig 8?

if the pattern is flat to an outside observer (i.e. it like this ++) and you do it in the same plane, but describe the crosses in the order of an infinity sign, to maintain antispin motion, you would have to reverse the direction of the stick's spin on the middle horizontals.

though tricky, this actually makes the trick possible as your arm then twists up on the left cross and untwists on the right one


and no - i don't get the swooshy pattern mr monkey was suggesting by 'transposing the left and right verticals' either...


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

 Written by: coleman


i'm assuming you mean to do it on the right then do it on your right, then on your left in wheelplane?
cole. x



No, I do it on my right, and then on my 'more right'. None of this fancy stuff needed. Forwards anti-spin and... forwards anti-spin. (though my reverse is what I prefer.)

I still think to make at least good cross anti-spin my hands move in a giant anti-spin circle to the rotation of the sticks. I might need to squish the circle in various places to make the cross really clean, but I'm not ever going to think about that pattern, I'm always going to be thinking about a nice clean horizontal and vertical line, and a big straight arm circle.

If I want to be down with the bendy diamond pattern, I'll learn box anti-spin while REALLY concentrating on isolating the corners. y'know?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Love is the law.

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

mr cole is so right it hurts



"horizontal and vertical line, and a big straight arm circle"



now i'm baffled. As far as i thought, the two are incompatible.



can you draw me a diagram?



EDIT - Monkey is talking rubbish here. Apart from cole being right. That bit is still true.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

 Written by: mcp

If I want to be down with the bendy diamond pattern, I'll learn box anti-spin while REALLY concentrating on isolating the corners. y'know?



bah humbug

Just do it really really really fast, then
A) people won't notice your isolation is poo
B) you won't need an 8 second photo exposure, cos people can see the patterns with their eyes.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

here's a picture I made earlier, it's for imakode, about anti-spin with quarter time isolations.

http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=1
br>
[ ]

What am I replying to?

Oh cross anti-spin, I mean standard anti-spin. One end only goes up and down, the vertical bit of the cross, the other only horizontal, while the arm holding the staff, not the other one, that would be weird, makes a big anti-spin circle.

cole: it's not difficult. You spin a figure of eight in your right hand and then take a step to the right and you're still spinning the same figure of eight. like OO it doesn't have to change direction and cross your body, you just have to move.

It's the same with the anti-spin version, except you have to do the think I describe somewhere above to get it to work.

simian: people would only see the pattern if you could do it that well that fast. And I'm not going to spin fast just so I can do anti-spin. Though actually, that sounds like a good smackdown opportunity... maybe I will learn faster spinning...

I may learn triangle anti-spin only because then I can do flux capacitor patterns.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

 Written by: mcp



here's a picture I made earlier, it's for imakode, about anti-spin with quarter time isolations.



http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=1
br>


[ ]





Nobody likes it when i do that one with doubles doing mirrored versions of the pattern.



They think it looks ugly. Maybe i'm just wearing the wrong trousers when i do it. Or possibly i need a new hat. Or maybe if i stopped in the middle for a little bit of contemporary dance...





it is rather an odd beast though.



and ARGH! you can make wick axis isos with proper arm circles. WIERD!!!



the timing of rotation of staff along different points of the curve is different. The 8 compass points all match up (either horiz, vert or diagonal)

But the how rotation speed is emphasised along the eighths seems to be different.



That is odd and requires some thinking. or some playing. hmm, playing i reckon. it's much easier.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

meg - what you describe is certainly not the same thing as tracing an infinity pattern:



 Written by: megthementalist

cole: it's not difficult. You spin a figure of eight in your right hand and then take a step to the right and you're still spinning the same figure of eight. like OO it doesn't have to change direction and cross your body, you just have to move.



It's the same with the anti-spin version, except you have to do the think I describe somewhere above to get it to work.





nah - spinning a figure 8 then stepping to the right doesn't make an infinity pattern - think for like two seconds about the paths the wicks follow as you move right and you'll see that none of what you're saying makes any sense.



 Written by: madmeg

simian: people would only see the pattern if you could do it that well that fast.





wicks moving in straight lines is messed up.



wicks moving in straight lines across a big ++ pattern around your body is pure firespinning crazyness in a bottle.



and i say this antispin cross stuff looks waaaaaay better in motion than it ever will in a photo.



so nerr





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

 Written by: coleman

and i say this antispin cross stuff looks waaaaaay better in motion than it ever will in a photo.



awww i luv you cole

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

 Written by: coleman


meg - what you describe is certainly not the same thing as tracing an infinity pattern:

 Written by: megthementalist

cole: it's not difficult. You spin a figure of eight in your right hand and then take a step to the right and you're still spinning the same figure of eight. like OO it doesn't have to change direction and cross your body, you just have to move.

It's the same with the anti-spin version, except you have to do the think I describe somewhere above to get it to work.



nah - spinning a figure 8 then stepping to the right doesn't make an infinity pattern - think for like two seconds about the paths the wicks follow as you move right and you'll see that none of what you're saying makes any sense.




no none of what you're saying makes any sense.

I was talking about the anti-spin version when I talked about the infinity sign. Then you went and applied it to the figure of eight version, which I was using as a prop to explain to you what I was doing.

Simain: What *are* you talking ABOUT?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

meg - did you bother to think about what pattern you get by spinning a circle and stepping to the side.

i know that i can do what i've been describing so you can show me what you're doing when i see ya next

 Written by: simian


i've been spinning a biro in front of my monitor



glad i'm not the only one...

there is indeed some weirdness going on with these patterns but that is why we love them so...

i'm not a trigonometrist but try this:

go inbetween the two possible hand patterns to see the relationship more clearly, i.e. try and trace the cross antispin pattern using a straight-sided diamond hand pattern...


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

 Written by: you

You spin a figure of eight in your right hand and then take a step to the right and you're still spinning the same figure of eight. like OO it doesn't have to change direction and cross your body, you just have to move.



It's the same with the anti-spin version, except you have to do the think I describe somewhere above to get it to work.





i still think that this:



 Written by: you

making a cross anti-spin travel over two crosses that don't cross your body (forwards and forwards, instead of forwards and reverse) is possible too, just with having to make an infinity sign around the points instead of doing them in the order that the monkey states. Might look alright if it was hella tight.





doesn't work for the reason i stated here:



 Written by: me

tracing an infinity sign with your hand would mean mean that you travel round one half of the pattern clockwise and the other anticlockwise.



unless you reverse the direction of spin of the stick as you go from one side of the infinity pattern to the other, one half will be spin and the other antispin, no?





i stated yesterday:



 Written by: me



translation of the double plus pattern to 'normal' (read 'hands move in circles only' or 'messy') antispin, would equate to [a hand pattern that is] something like two circles next to each other:



oo



to link them and maintain the antispin motion, you have to go over the top of the first circle, down to the join *staying on the top* over the top of the second circle then round and then across the bottoms.



"I start from the bottom left, up to the left vertical, then down to horizontal then up again? Or down to the the right bottom, which is probably what my anti-spin wants, rather than getting tricky with those two verticals in a row."



this seems to suggest that you think you link these two antispin circles/patterns by moving your hand in an infinity sign type motion.













cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Ok I've read this thread 3 times all the way through, over the last few hours. And i can honestly say i understand it all far less than when i came in. I think the 3 of you - Cole, Meg and Simian - seem to be saying pretty much the same thing but all using differing (and deranged) terms. Aside from that i'm muchly baffled.

[mutter]This is why i don't venture into the spinning forums any more. Way too geeky... I'm going back to hide in intros. It's safer, comfier, fluffier and far less prone to brain meltage...[/mutter] wake me up if you decide anything?

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

i played with a stick last night



and even better than that, i worked out why there's a difference between an antispin cross isolation using a long arm circle and doing it using a bendy diamond:



to get the isolation to work in both dimensions (horizontal and vertical) using a long arm circle, it is necessary for your stick to be *exactly* twice the length of your arm (from shoulder to palm).



of course, you can get it to work if you turn your full arm circle into a cone (i.e. like tracing a circle out in front of you) to reduce the size of the circle, but it isn't a full arm circle then is it?



not to mention that getting the angle of your arm from your shoulder, speed of rotation of your arm and speed of rotation of the stick to coincide and produce an antispin cross, is a bit too much for me - i don't think i'd ever get it clean working on that method.



to me, the bendy diamond method feels easier to spin for two main reasons:



- it has arm direction change points at corresponding the wick direction change points so the wick motion doesn't feel so disconnected from what you're doing with your arm/hand (still looks mental though)

- you can very easily adjust the patterns to any size stick (up to and including a stick twice the length of your arm)



i can't do ++ as a fwd to rev antispin fig 8 yet but, i did work out that spinning ++ using longarm circles only is impossible without either a direction change of the arm or the stick on the horizontal join.



new outlook for friday:

maybe sticks are okay after all...





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Yay mr cole! thats made the circle thing much clearer to me, and explained why i previously thought it impossible.



to all people complaining that we're not writing this in baby language:

well if you want to have things easily explained to you, then you should only learn about stuff that's completely understood already, innit?



it was only through reading Rev's posts on antispin with poi that i came to an understanding of it in the first place. Rev's posts were confusing and near unreadable, BUT they contained an enormous amount of useful information found nowhere else.



in other words: If you wanna read the good stuff, you have to learn how to read properly. So take what you can from our rambling and shut up your complaining



 Written by: cole

i can't do ++ as a fwd to rev antispin fig 8 yet but, i did work out that spinning ++ using longarm circles only is impossible without either a direction change of the arm or the stick on the horizontal join.



i kinda said that when first mentioning the pattern, but i was being fairly cryptic at the time.

Yup, i think direction change of larger circle feels more natural, but meg reckons stick direction change feels nicer. Matter of opinion really.

EDIT: Whoops, wrong bit highlighted in red. no there isn't a direction change as such. The pattern is simply reset back (or forward) 180 degrees. Direction of large and small cricles remains unchanged. Possible with long arm. With bendy diamond method that is.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.