Forums > Advanced Staff moves > Doubles Isolated Antispin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

You are both insuferable geeks and that is all i have to say about this conversation

although I will be asking meg to explain it on thursday

Viva UGLY STAFF

weaving, no problem, antispin, no problem, isolating, no problem, understanding you guys........

problem

Meg - ill see you at the weekend, when you can show me this jargan without words, so i can then say - "ahhhh is that all you mean!"

Saying that - please do not stop talking i like being confused

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

So you must have the five point pentagon / pagan star and the three point triangle / flux capacitor also.

Though at least for the box / cross the difference is mostly in the spinner, and not much in the pattern. (apart from the turning of the pattern.) The difference being in which lines you emphasise.

The three beat weave with staffs anti-spun is pretty different from my extra beat anti-spin weave. Just gotta try the btb 3b weave anti-spun....

Forgot to try and join the crosses last night... will try harder at lunchtime. Plus all these weaves would be much more fun with random direction changing isolations chucked in...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

To me, A doubles anti spin weave feels like an extension of translations where the translation is extented (rotated) to the point that it must cross the body in order to be continious.

In short. there is no decent way to describe this and agree... it has to do with geekology and personal preference.

I understand meg better that the monkey, but he knows what he's doing, no doubt.

Strugz, maybe you can come back and explain it when meg shows you.

That way we can have it in three completly different languages.

I havent played to much with this. But, my lovely Amelie has. After four dys of learning double staff she has cracked most or cetainly alot of variations. Including but not limited to hybrids (polyrythyms), flowers both paralell and butterfly and so on. its very impressive and yes meg, it does look cool.

I want more, I reckon antispin is good for your brain in a different way to normal spin...

Love is the law.

 Written by: ado-p


its very impressive and yes meg, it does look cool.




unsure as to what precedes me, is it my reputation?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Love is the law.

meg, about the translation, we're in agreement, i just misread you the first time.

 Written by: mcp

Oh, so that's why you illustrated your ideas with two pluses rather than one...


no. Two pluses. One staff. you missed the point there. although i am being vague, because being precise makes my head hurt (and i should be working)

one staff goes round the whole pattern of ++ by going
[far left horizontal] > [top left vertical] > [middle horizontal] > [top right vertical] > [far right horizontal] > [bottom right vertical] > [middle horizontal] > [bottom left vertical] > [far left horizontal] > repeat

you see? "joined up crosses".

alternatively you transpose the right or left verticals in that pattern to get a lovely wierd swooshing pattern

 Written by: mcp

wait wait wait, are you saying to move the cross shape of an anti-spin movement in a circle that is itself anti-spin? So that not only the arm is anti-spinning, but the pattern created by the staff is moving in a circle... (or any other pattern) That would be cool. I think that would be compound circles ish.


no i wasn't saying that at all. But that's cool! if it makes sense

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

 Written by: simian



one staff goes round the whole pattern of ++ by going

[far left horizontal] > [top left vertical] > [middle horizontal] > [top right vertical] > [far right horizontal] > [bottom right vertical] > [middle horizontal] > [bottom left vertical] > [far left horizontal] > repeat



you see? "joined up crosses".







No I don't see. I see what your getting at, I just don't see how it's done.



does it involve going behind the plane of your body? Or snaked anti-spin?



I start from the bottom left, up to the left vertical, then down to horizontal then up again? Or down to the the right bottom, which is probably what my anti-spin wants, rather than getting tricky with those two verticals in a row.



If I'm at the left horizontal trying to go up again, which end is going up? the end that used to be horizontal and is closest to the right vertical or the correct vertical end, meaning the horizontal end has to do something in order to get out of the way... ?





 Written by: simian



 Written by: mcp

wait wait wait, are you saying to move the cross shape of an anti-spin movement in a circle that is itself anti-spin? So that not only the arm is anti-spinning, but the pattern created by the staff is moving in a circle... (or any other pattern) That would be cool. I think that would be compound circles ish.



no i wasn't saying that at all. But that's cool! if it makes sense





yeah it would make sense...



Code:

+

+ +

+





the anti-spin crosses would move in a circle like above... (but with each cross just being a normal cross... and tiny sticks and long arms.) not doing anything fancy...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

the burning question then is exactly how those four crosses join up meg and what the true resulting pattern is...



i think i get what monkey is saying:



the double crosses ++ pattern is a continuous pattern produced by making a new pattern with the hand spinning the stick.



this pattern is like a double, joined-up version of the bendy sided diamond shape that produces the normal cross antispin isolation, no?



kinda like this shape if you join up the gaps on the outside (to make a continuous line enclosing a vaguely figure 8ish shape) with nice bendy-inwards lines:



Code:

^ ^

< = >

v v





the translation between the standard single cross antispin pattern happens on the horizontal lines (although in reality this is actually a bendy line in a smile shape) between the diamonds.

i used an equals sign to show your hand traces it twice - once right to left and once left to right, on its way around the shape.



i think



i like it in this forum.

its like i can be vague and not care at all that i'm probably both wrong and incomprehensible at the same time :mediatate:





cole.

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

yes, like he said

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Ah look the man learns antispin at EJC - now hes finding himself all comfortable in this forum!



If you had come here a while ago cole you would have realised that vaugeness and being incomprehensible are required trates of a staff spinner.



Welcome my friend, your journey to the staff side is complete

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

thank-you mr strugz!



however, i may be destined to never spin a staff normally...



even though i live with princess bambam and have watched you spin for countless hours strugz, my favourite things to do with sticks are still what drew used to do when he got bored doing perfect fishtails (i.e. off centre pendula, off centre spinning and translation) and monkey's techier-than-thou antispin-based wonderfulness.



me playing with a stick is not pleasent to watch and it may well never be.



but i'm having fun playing with my rod and that's what its all about in this forum innit





oh, and i answered my own question to meg in my last post:



if you do the crosses as x's, you can join them up nicely:



staff wick pattern:

Code:

X

X X

X





the hand pattern can then be determined by joining up the outside points of the crosses with those lovely bendy-inwards lines.



i'm not going to try to draw it in ascii but i have it on a piece of paper in front of me



damn you monkey and meg - i have loads of work to do and only and hour and a half left to do it!





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

monkey was desribing patterns that the wicks of the stick make.



you are assuming that he is describing hand patterns and are thusly getting confused.



i posted the equivalent hand pattern - did you read it or did you ignore them cos you thought they'd probably be about poi?



as for "does it involve going behind the plane of your body? Or snaked anti-spin?" that's far too complicated for my brain...



i am nonplussed about where i fit in crossovers in these hand patterns - there's probably a bunch of ways but i don't spin sticks so i just imagine doing everything in front of me using fingerspins



told you i'm not normal.



ich bin UNTERNORMALISCHE!!!





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"THe hands makes a giant circle when doing anti-spin, so I don't see how you can have confused it with me talking about vertical and horizontal lines... "



no, they don't - that's exactly what we're talking about, no...?



quote from monkey's first post in this thread:



"antispin doesn't have to be circles, it can go in ovals of any dimension (fat, thin, tall, short) or bumpy circles or swastikas (a really visually impressive pattern thats got a real bad rep thanks to those pesky nazis)"



in order to make the double plus antispin pattern ( ++ ), the hands make the pattern i posted above:



Code:

^ ^

< = >

v v





and like i said, if you just cheat and do fingerspins until you understand at least the hand movements and resulting wick pattern, none of the level of twistyness of any of your joints matters at all.



i know this is poor technique but i reckon the pattern is possible while holding onto the stick too - you just need to work out when and where you need to cross to the opposing plane.



i'd hazard a guess that it would fit neatly into a forwards to reverse figure 8 pattern - now, go prove me wrong (or wait for monkey to turn up again)





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"does it involve going behind the plane of your body? Or snaked anti-spin?"

how would you do it "snaked antispin" without going behind the plane of your body???

it's a pattern of staff movement, the manipulation to achieve it is secondary the way i see it.



And the ++ doesn't get close to triplespin. As my esteemed colleague Mr Column correctly says, a forward to bacward fig 8 does the business nicely.



maybe you should try putting one of the staffs down miss meg. It makes it easy, you see?



"I start from the bottom left, up to the left vertical, then down to horizontal then up again? Or down to the the right bottom, which is probably what my anti-spin wants, rather than getting tricky with those two verticals in a row."



um, bottom left to left vertical?? wha??

and i'd say the antispin prefers to go from vertical pole to vertical pole. Otherwise there's a direction change (which still looks sweet).



"If I'm at the left horizontal trying to go up again, which end is going up? the end that used to be horizontal and is closest to the right vertical or the correct vertical end, meaning the horizontal end has to do something in order to get out of the way... ?"



um, the end that alway goes up there in antispin?



This might help. The two wicks would make interlocking T shapes.



one wick is making this shape: ----]

while the other makes this one: [----

so the two of them together make this: --[--]-- (which is what i meant by ++ )



and coles

Code:

X

X X

X



is like my ++, only the massive version

which is:

+ +

+ +

but i left that out cos it's impossible without icklesticks.



but you can fit the crosses together anyway you want really, like sticklebricks.



and no, hands don't have to make a giant circle when doing antispin. Well, it depends how you define it really. But mine almost never ever do.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

that's not a pattern, it's like join up the dots.

Yeah, but we're not talking about those stylistic versions of anti-spin we're talking about bog standard anti-spin, with a singular movement in the middle to create two anti-spin patterns. After all, box anti-spin hand movements make the space between four circles in a cross, but we don't talk about that. Just the crosses and the boxes. hands aren't on fire after all...

But you answered after a while that you didn't know so that's cool.

Seems like it should work with a closed grip in my head if you went from top left to bottom right and top right to bottom left. But this could just be my head.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Think if I had a hour to kill I might be able to get some sort of under standing of what your on about (but would probably end up with something complete different). Think you should film so sort clips of the basic patterens (not that I would bother cos am lazy but you guys should).

go on, go on, go on

Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct

oh, yes, i see now meg - you are mental



translation of the double plus pattern to 'normal' (read 'hands move in circles only' or 'messy') antispin, would equate to something like two circles next to each other:



oo



to link them and maintain the antispin motion, you have to go over the top of the first circle, down to the join *staying on the top* over the top of the second circle then round and then across the bottoms.



"I start from the bottom left, up to the left vertical, then down to horizontal then up again? Or down to the the right bottom, which is probably what my anti-spin wants, rather than getting tricky with those two verticals in a row."



this seems to suggest that you think you link these two antispin circles/patterns by moving your hand in an infinity sign type motion.

and you confirm that line of thought here:



"Seems like it should work with a closed grip in my head if you went from top left to bottom right and top right to bottom left. But this could just be my head."



i can confirm, it is just your head.



that method does not work: if you traced top left to bottom right and top right to bottom left, you end up doing antispin round one circle and spi-spin round the other.



unless you cahnge the direction of rotation of the stick halfway through the pattern.



which is whooooooole nother story









cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

ahhhh, I was thinking in terms of starting in the forwards position and then going further away from my body with the second cross, rather than across my body to the reverse figure eight across my body position.

but you don't need to go behind the back to snake up an anti-spin, you might need to get out of the snake without changing direction... but that's another story...

putting down one of the staffs? I haven't picked one up yet...

I think you should try +x or y'know x+ or maybe two triangles or boxes or whatever, that'd be fun... if it wasn't sooo easy...

Do it with two and the pattern might be worth watching without a 8 second exposure on a camera...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

megsed: "box anti-spin hand movements make the space between four circles in a cross, but we don't talk about that"



its less that we don't talk about it and more that you just ignore it...



this was in monkey's first post:



"A true antispin circle makes very different trails to an antispin circle thats been emphasised to, for example, make the wicks isolate vertically and horizontally (circle vs "curvy diamond")"



and this was in my first post:



"the bendy sided diamond shape that produces the normal cross antispin isolation"







x+ doesn't work as a one stick pattern as there are gaps - show us where they join up and we'll tell you how to antispin it





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

"nobody cares cole, it's either a box or a cross. Or something else that doesn't look so nice."

that comes directly after a post containing a video with little other than cross antispin - that you yourself called "lush"

it does indeed only make a cross, but the way the wicks move through the cross is beautiful.

if you really think it 'doesn't look so nice', its probably because you're crap at it still - maybe when there's a contact version, you'll decide its hard enough to bother getting anywhere near clean...


until then, i apologise sincerely - please excuse my efforts to aid your understanding empress meg.

i truly did not realise when i started posting here that "if meg doesn't understand it yet then it doesn't count for sh!t".

i'll come back later when your brain has caught up...




cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

 Written by: coleman


"nobody cares cole, it's either a box or a cross. Or something else that doesn't look so nice."

that comes directly after a post containing a video with little other than cross antispin - that you yourself called "lush"

it does indeed only make a cross, but the way the wicks move through the cross is beautiful.




don't quite understand this argument... "it's either a box or a cross..." and then you talk as if I hadn't mentioned the cross? What are you on? If you're going to insult my intelligence, at least try and read my posts...

and dude, there is a contact version...

and it's more like: Nobody else has bothered to say anything, so it's not like I'm really interrupting any fervered discussion so I might as well get it clarified in my head, which may or may not help other people to get it clarified in their heads. Somebodies got to say SOMETHING in order to have a discussion.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

box and cross

you're mixing up hand movements and wick movements there aren't you?

the "box" antispin patterns make two perpendicular pointed ovals (like two of these: () crossed over)

how do you make a box with antispin? The only way i can think of doing it is spin-spin...

ON AN ENTIRELY SEPERATE NOTE
i still think the coolest thing about the bendy diamond pattern is that it's actually a circle thats been cut into quarters then turned inside out.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."