Forums > Social Discussion > Israel back at war (a rant)

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:[rant]Now for many years I have opposed Israel for their politics in Palestine, Gaza and so on... These days it seems to be mainstream, especially since Israel is back at war with the nations around them, threatening the "rest of the world".



I certainly have a natural opposition towards people, who were suffering the holocaust and seem to put this fate on other, innocent people - it seems as if they have not learned from their own history.



But nope - not this time. I am sick and tired of news and stories about extremists and insurgents, kidnapping and killing other innocent people.



For quite some time, the Israeli govt has done efforts to come to peace with the troublemakers (yes, heck they are troublemakers themselves and yes "collateral damage" done by the Israeli military to innocent people in Lebanon and Gaza is hard to accept...) it just doesn't stop...



And now, I only have to imagine that it would have been the sister of my ex-girfriend to be one of the kidnapped Israeli soldiers - it would disturb me just as much as imagining that my arab cousin lives in Beirut...



I know that war (as violence) is never the way and retaliation is as wrong as attacking, but please tell me: If you're making efforts to live your life in peace and you find out that all compromises you make are answered with neglect (yes, the majority of arabs DO actually WANT PEACE finally and do NOT support the hizbullah - I acknowledge this fact) - bottom line is that there are some blinded people who never learn - how can this be ended? It's a merry go round...



It's not ironic that I am sitting in a hebrew internet cafe in Bangkok - it's almost hilarious! There are millions of young and old jews across the globe who would just LOVE to finally see peace in the middle east and I am sick and tired of reckless politicians who condemn a nation just because of their faith, they actually DO have a democracy and prosper AND that their small number of soldiers (with high tech) is able to keep the entire arab nations around them in check (and do not tell me that those nations would not have the funds to arm up with as much high tech)...



I am SICK of it! I want it to END, I want the killing to STOP NOW!!!!! Why does it seem further away than ever? Why is war the way?



Disclaimer: and pls note that I am not falling into the mainstream thinking that muslims are generally to be held responsible for extremism - it's individuals and their political interest, it's NEVER collective.[/rant]



sorry guys


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: GitasGuy



Israel started it offensive on the grounds of retrieving the kidnapped soldiers.

Which was just a good excuse to flex their muscles once again, knowing no one in the region can stop then and they have the USA wrapped around their little finger





So I've gone over the evidence, if you would please care to read that:

1) Hezbollah is part of and funded by the Lebanese Government.

2) Hezbollah attacked Israel, raided, kidnapped two soldiers, and fired rockets.

3) Hezbollah hides behind citizens.

4) Hezbollah may be forcing said citizens to stay at gunpoint.



And your problem is with Israel. I don't get it. I just don't.



Explain it. Logically. So far nobody's making any sense. They keep on mumbling nonsense about "commitment to peace" and "Israel starting it" and "Israel firing on civilians." And they don't seem to want to listen to evidence that it ain't necessarily so.

EDITED_BY: Doc Lightning (1154062243)


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:Some of you are letting your emotions get the better of you!~

This is a very emotional topic.

I try to keep my emotions tight, i didnt even cry at my own fathers funeral, but i was watching the late news the other night. There was a civillian girl who's family van had been targeted, and they had almost all been killed. She was in hospitel, 11 yrs old, and she had lost all her skin. Totally burnt off... i couldnt help it. It made me cry.

The whole thing is so pointless and the worst part is we all feel so helpless. But i believe we can do something. We can try to better ourselves as people and try to let things go, and try to see things from anothers point. And be prepaired to compromise.

If you believe there is no hope, then what hope is there? If something failed it dosnt mean it cant work, it could just need more faith and hope and positive re-enforcement.

Imagine if every shell fired creates a terriost

I think as people we should try as hard as we can to build bridges and not burn them; to try and make the world a better place, you should lead by example... that is how you stop creating more terroists, and how you start to build hope.

love u all grouphug


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GitasGuy
GitasGuy

Pooh-Bah
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 6th Jun 2006
Total posts: 2303
Posted:i've read your rederic, and you are very one eyed!! I'm not saying Hezbollah is right cause thats not true. But someone has to be the bigger person in all this. And seeing as tho Israel is the one with the supposed morals and judgement of a civilised nation, and not some group of terrorist, you would think that they could be that (the BIGGER person).
The death toll is a 10 to 1 ratio on Israel side. And it seems that not many of those dead are actual Hezbollah fighters.


:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!! ubblol ubbtickled

Homer rocks!!!! ubblol ubbrollsmile

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Colin J
Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 24th May 2005
Total posts: 116
Posted:it seems there are people who hold a pascifist view and are writing about fighting. Not that is a problem, but I read someone going on about I don't hate ect. If you don't experience "hate" how can you possibly understand it?



Also to lead by example and lay down your all your arms could make you a martyr very quickly in any sort of warring confict.(i know we are fluffy here smile ) to simple dissarm and be peaceful would leave you and your loved ones, well screwed.



because

There are those people who have F***ked up priorities man. And some whacked ideas.

there are those people with the will to fight. And laying down your weapons won't make them think any differently if they hate you or what you represent. See you don't even need to be a threat, they could just as well justify killing a child because it represented something else, like a shield that protected a terrorist or the future enemy. even after disarming, those people with the will to fight, still have the desire to fight. No matter how many victories they obtain and no matter how much is sacreficed. Its 100% mental, if the fight is there to be fought, they will seek it. if not they will make one up in their head. whole peoples can be moved to war. Some fight because of ideals, some fight because its all they know. Some are sheep, its alot easier to justify killing if you are ordered to do it, rather than deciding for yourself to. Others fight because they have no choice.



BUT......

I think its right when OWD and everyone esle is saying don't give up on talks. negotiations are the only reasonable solution. But reasonable to you and me may be way different. And suicide and terrorist attacks are not reasonable actions. Far from it. And as patriarch mentioned earlier there is no compromising with a group who is fully dedicated to your destruction. fighters do not quit. Its not in the nature of a fighter. Its either lots of someones change their mind about lots of things(which seems unlikely considering the unreasoning issue) or one side destroys or renders the other impotent. How most conflict ends really.



 Written by: stone

I think people are stuck in this viscous cycle of war because they enjoy it; they enjoy wallowing in hatred, and moaning about how unfair life is. If they were to take a good hard look at themselves, they would probably find they fear their lives would loose meaning without conflict, in a peaceful world.





I agree with that statement.



*being peacful is one thing, but not protecting yourself is unwise.

*many people are stuck in a self perpetuating

circle of hatred.

*changing the way people think is the most reasonable solution.

*Terrorist actions are unreasonable. Reasoning with them and negoiations seem very difficult.

*I think its in the nature of the ideals at conflict in this situation that one side or the other must face annihilation. or atleast the ideals do.


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sagetree
sagetree

organic creation
Location: earth
Member Since: 7th May 2006
Total posts: 246
Posted: Written by: andrealee

I do not hate Isreal. I do not support the Hezbolla. I do not hate, period. I am trying to learn discuss and understand. I want to explore the possibilities for a non violent or less violent solution to some of the problems in Lebanon. My motivation is compassion.



i completely agree with you

 Written by: doc lightning

You concede with this that Israel has no reasonable alternative to its actions and that you cannot offer a different viable solution.



i honestly believe that moving Israel is a better suggested solution than building a wall. the people that live to destroy Israel will get longer range missiles, build tunnels etc.

 Written by: ken layne

Lower Baja California has only 420,000 residents, most in the capital city of La Paz and the booze resorts of San Jos del Cabo and Cabo San Lucas. But north of La Paz, it's pretty much uninhabited desert, just like British-controlled Palestine before the Zionists arrived and made the harsh land blossom with fruits, vegetables, software companies and night clubs.

Unlike the Holy Land and all its complications, Lower Baja has never been a center of anything but piracy and tequila binging. Francis Drake was one of the many pirates to land on Baja, long thought to be an island. The Spanish Jesuits finally made a few permanent settlements. There wasn't even a paved road from the Mexican mainland until a few decades ago. And check it out, Ariel: it's said that Sephardic Jews came to Baja to escape the freakin' Inquisition back in the 15th Century. (There's a 1973 book about this, but I can't find a copy.)

Baja California Sur has 46,920 square miles. Israel has 10,840 square miles including the West Bank and Gaza Strip.




doc - i think your part in this discussion has been realistic and backed with accurate information. even though we don't always agree i appreciate your views.

i find it much easier to say "If there is no better solution than "what's currently being done" then "what's currently being done" is the best solution" than to challenge the the cycle of violence and try to work together to discuss new ways of resolving conflicts. it's not helping anything to demand answers from people trying to find answers through discussion.


i may be a pacifist but if my neighborhood was filled with people that wanted to hurt me i would move without question. even if all of my sacred memories from childhood were at that house. even if my great great grandfather built that house. even if i could defend myself from the people wanting to harm me, i would move for my children and their children.


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Colin J
Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 24th May 2005
Total posts: 116
Posted:yeah, but where do you go when your country is at war? You and the few 100k of other refugees from you city can't just walk off to another country? can you?

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: FireTom



OWD: moving Israel is an interesting concept, but would this mean they have a souvereign state? The US/ Canadians/ Mexicans/ Australians providing independance?







Yes, ideally; I think that for it to be a viable and fair option, it would be a full soverign state; basically exactly what they've got now, just in a better place.



Is that possible? I don't know, obviously there's real issues with independant states with military being set-up in america.



Then again, Israel and America are supposedly good friends- america has certainly done much to support Israel in the Middle East, including providing a lot of weapons and military training.



Given that level of friendship and trust, surely America wouldn't object to having Israel as an independant state on American soil



 Written by: FireTom



On top of this, pls don't forget that the land you are talking about already belongs to someone else (Aboriginals, Indians). The gov't of Australia and the US was generous enough to donate (parts of) the deserts to the native people - now you want to take it away (again)?







Land that belongs to someone else can be bought.



Given that this solution will end the Middle East conflict and is probably the only way to end it, i would expect the international community to provide willingly all the cash and resources necessary.



Of course, wherever the land is, some will be unwilling to be paid off and move- for them, sadly, forced displacement (or an option to stay, as Israelis) will be necessary.



On balance, that displacement will be infinitly better than the current one, and will not lead to the violence we have currently.



As for aboriginals- why their land necessarily? There's plenty of wide open tracts of wilderness land that belongs to people other than aboriginals.



I also feel it's worth saying that, despite the incredibly difficult situation and location they've been in, the Israelis have done an incredible job of creating and maintaining a culture, economy and country.



Despite being in a war zone, they're prospered in many ways- they have much in common with western culture and ideals.



From that perspective, setting up Israel II in America could be viewed as a welcome and positive benefit to America.



Where the middle East is concerned, the removal of 'the thorn', suddenly means that the extremeist muslims have got everything their claim to be wanting.



Given that, as Lightning as pointed out, many of the main Middle east Muslim lands are now activley fighting terrorism, i feel that the removal of Israel would enable that attitiude to spread.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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dream
dream

currently mending
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 15th Jul 2003
Total posts: 493
Posted: Written by: the guardian



Palestinian factions, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, have agreed to stop firing rockets at Israel and to free a captured Israeli soldier in a deal brokered by Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president.

The deal, agreed on Sunday, is to halt the rocket attacks in return for a cessation of Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip, and to release Corporal Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier captured on June 25, in exchange for the freeing of Palestinian prisoners at some point in the future.

An adviser to Mr Abbas told the Guardian that all Palestinian politicians were united on the need to free the Israeli soldier and stop all violence in Gaza, but the obstacles were the Israeli government and the Hamas leadership in Damascus.

"The problem is that both Islamic Jihad and Hamas have to seek the advice of their political bureaux in Damascus and we are waiting for their response," he said.

Ibrahim al-Naja, a Hamas minister in Ramallah, told the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz: "This initiative was presented in an attempt to alleviate Palestinian suffering, but now it depends on Israel, which is showing no indication yet of its willingness for a ceasefire."

The ceasefire has yet to take hold completely but there has been a marked reduction in the number of rockets fired at Israel. A spokeswoman for the Israeli army said 16 Qassam rockets were fired at Israel on Sunday, seven on Monday and three on Tuesday. None caused any injuries.

Qais Abu Leila, a member of the executive committee of the Palestine Liberation Organisation, said the Hizbullah rocket attacks had highlighted the futility of Palestinian attempt to build home-made rockets. "Now it is finally clear to everyone that these rockets do more damage to Palestinians than Israelis," he said.

The Israeli army has withdrawn from all areas of the Gaza Strip but is still firing shells and carrying out air attacks. Five civilians, including two children, were killed by Israeli shells on Monday. An adviser to Amir Peretz, the defence minister, said there was still no agreement but added: "There are negotiations going on."

The raid on Israeli positions by Hamas gunmen on June 25 that left two soldiers dead and one in the hands of Hamas plunged Gaza into crisis. Israel destroyed much of Gaza's infrastructure and killed about 120 Palestinians, including 26 children, without achieving its objectives of freeing the soldier or stopping rocket fire.

One Israeli soldier was killed, possibly by friendly fire, and 14 have been injured. Six Israeli civilians have been hurt by Qassam rockets over the same period. Israeli jets have destroyed bridges, Gaza's only power station and public buildings.

However, the Gaza crisis was quickly overshadowed by Hizbullah's attack on Israel's northern border. The depth of the crisis in Lebanon has reduced the pressure on Gaza and made Israel more amenable to a solution, according to Mr Abbas's aide. Earlier this month, Yuval Diskin, the head of Israel's internal security agency, Shin Bet, met Mr Abbas in Jordan.

According to the aide, Israel is willing to release Palestinian prisoners in return for Cpl Shalit but insists the exchange will not be simultaneous and its release of prisoners will be described as a "goodwill gesture" and not as a direct exchange.

This has been accepted by Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas prime minister, and the Hamas political movement but not by Khaled Meshal, the Hamas leader in Damascus. Mr Meshal wields considerable power because he controls funds donated by Iran, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. The military wing of Hamas, which is holding Cpl Shalit, is particularly dependent on the money from Mr Meshal.

Mr Meshal is susceptible to pressure from his host, Syria. "It appears that Syria's main concern is the investigation into the murder of the Lebanese prime minister, Rafiq Hariri. If Syria could be assured that the investigation does not continue, there are indications that Syria would be willing to be helpful on many issues, not just the release of Israeli soldiers," Mr Abbas's aide said.

Syrian agents are among suspects in the ongoing United Nations investigation of the murder of Mr Hariri in Beirut last year.




He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Nietzsche

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hey Si wave

smile


Getting to the other side smile

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning


 Written by: GitasGuy


Israel started it offensive on the grounds of retrieving the kidnapped soldiers.
Which was just a good excuse to flex their muscles once again, knowing no one in the region can stop then and they have the USA wrapped around their little finger



So I've gone over the evidence, if you would please care to read that:
1) Hezbollah is part of and funded by the Lebanese Government.
2) Hezbollah attacked Israel, raided, kidnapped two soldiers, and fired rockets.
3) Hezbollah hides behind citizens.
4) Hezbollah may be forcing said citizens to stay at gunpoint.

And your problem is with Israel. I don't get it. I just don't.

Explain it. Logically. So far nobody's making any sense. They keep on mumbling nonsense about "commitment to peace" and "Israel starting it" and "Israel firing on civilians." And they don't seem to want to listen to evidence that it ain't necessarily so.



I really don't understand why they don't understand you Mike. You've explained yourself impressively clearly.

My only attempt at understanding is to guess that some of them think that 'there is no excuse to do something bad'. Even if that means letting terrorists push your country into the ocean. It's better than killing an innocent civilian.

*shrug*

I don't get it Mike, I really don't.

I think there are two sides to this arguement but I don't see them both here.

Maybe it's simply a lack of sympathy for Israel. Maybe it's because of their close ties with the US. I think there is much more sympathy for the terrorists out here. Perhaps thats what you get in exchange for actually preserving human rights.

*shrug*


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Colin J
Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 24th May 2005
Total posts: 116
Posted:I think there probably will always be fighting on large scale until there is no poverty or poor countrys. It seems that the most viciuous fighting happens when someone threatens to take what you have, takes what you have or when you have nothing to left lose.

America and the UK would surely resort to very drastict measures if their own soil and infrastructure was being attacked daily. Israel is doing exactly what every one of our rich western countrys goverments would be doing. They have too much to lose to not be reactive to any threat. And the states and Europe probably have even more to lose in trms of stability, wealth ect. The only difference I can see is that this stuff is happening right on Israels doorstep. This looks the same to me as when 911 happened and the allies piled into Afganistan and Iraq.


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: sagetree


i may be a pacifist but if my neighborhood was filled with people that wanted to hurt me i would move without question. even if all of my sacred memories from childhood were at that house. even if my great great grandfather built that house. even if i could defend myself from the people wanting to harm me, i would move for my children and their children.



The problem is that Israel now is an established first-world nation with the 28th-highest GDP per capita in the world. It has a population of about 8 million. It spawned ICQ. The program you are proposing is not feasable.

Israel has managed to convince Egypt and Jordan to be friends. They're amazingly good at regime change.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: FireTom



Relocating Israel is an interesting thought, but nowhere even in range of possibilities.




Or maybe someone could just talk them into being less Jewish. Then they wouldn't be so attached to their holy land.

confused

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:NYC raises an interesting point, although I don't think he realizes it. (Really, he's not too bright, just rather lucky. wink hug)

I often think that Israel would have been much better off if it was placed on, say Madagascar. This wouldn't have empowered the religious extremists as much.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Spiderbaby
Spiderbaby

c",

Member Since: 31st Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted:But Doc Lightning if Israel was in Madagascar that wouldnt be solving the problem, it would just be moving the problem to Madagascar

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Ok. Suppose Australia gave up Tazmania or something. My point still holds.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Spiderbaby
Spiderbaby

c",

Member Since: 31st Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted:Why should Australia give up Tazmania? Australia owes nothing to israel . . or at least it doesnt owe that much. and i dont think your point holds,

Why should the jews even deserve their own nation?


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Because we keep getting caught in holocausts when we don't have somewhere to go. And so when in Germany in the '30's when Jews tried to flee other countries wouldn't take them.

Why do the English deserve their own?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Spiderbaby
Spiderbaby

c",

Member Since: 31st Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning



Because we keep getting caught in holocausts when we don't have somewhere to go. And so when in Germany in the '30's when Jews tried to flee other countries wouldn't take them.









Its ok to remember your troubled history but its not ok to repeat it on other people.



English deserve to live in England because they have always lived on their island and still continue to . . up until last time i checked.



The Jews havnt lived on the land that is now Israel for near 2000 years, thats why i question their right to their own nation there.

EDITED_BY: Spiderbaby (1154210609)


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I question that right every day. I don't question the right of the Jewish people to have a safe homeland.

Frankly, Australia owes Tasmania to the natives.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:New Jersey.

Everybody wins.

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:we deserve a nation, we chose this place because it is the 'holy land' or the 'promised land' etc blah blah blah.
personally i couldnt care less where israel was as long as we wouldnt be in constant war.


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:NYC, do you know why New Jersey got all the toxic waste dumps and California got all the lawyers?

New Jersey got first pick... ubblol


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: FireTom



Now Jews are back and they live in this spot for 50 years - tell me a reason why they should give up their home, other than the rest of the world is tired of the region fighting all the time...



1. It's better for the Palestinians and other surrounding Muslim regions

2. It's better for future generations of Israelis

3. It's better for the world as a whole

Where future (as yet unborn)generations of Israelis are concerned, I'm suggesting that most of them would far prefer a homeland that is safe, where they don't have to face, on daily basis, fear and the loss of their children from terrorist bombs and, where they don't have to devote vast resources to defence and engaging in operations that result in the deaths of muslim civilians.

As for that portion of Israelis who place more value on interpretations of religious texts. than on having a genuinely peaceful homeland and would prefer to live in a war-zone that accords with those interpretations- personally, I think those considerations should no more be taken seriously as grounds for action, than any of the other dysfunctional religious fundamentalist views that lie behind much of the violence we see in the world today.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: onewheeldave


As for that portion of Israelis who place more value on interpretations of religious texts. than on having a genuinely peaceful homeland and would prefer to live in a war-zone that accords with those interpretations- personally, I think those considerations should no more be taken seriously as grounds for action, than any of the other dysfunctional religious fundamentalist views that lie behind much of the violence we see in the world today.



I agree. But Israel isn't budging. Not in reality.

And where would we put it, anyway? Madagascar now has a population of 18 million and they aren't going to be too keen on giving up the island.

It's got to be arable land, some place with some natural resources, so Greenland isn't any good. Perhaps New Zealand would be willing to give up the North Island? wink Perhaps the U.S. would be willing to give up Hawaii?

ubbidea Or TEXAS!!! ubblol


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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spudmonkey
spudmonkey

Member
Location: kildare
Member Since: 20th Nov 2004
Total posts: 55
Posted:yea texas would b grand stetsons could b worn instead of kippas

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Bah... as this drags on and more civilians die and more civilians pick up arms this gets uglier and uglier.

Yeah, we all knew it was going this way but it's sad to see it when it is.

The highest support for any millitary action is always the first day.

The Israelis are calling for blood. The Lebanese are calling for blood. Looks like everybody is getting what they want. frown


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: FireTom


eehaa - texas sounds suitable... ubblol

I get and syphasize with your point OWD... but it always looks more easy from the outside, than it feels from the inside... shrug I applied the same for all the Tootsie, the Kurds, the Shiites in Iraq, the Muslim in India, not to speak of all ethnic minorities all over the planet, who happen to get caught up in a conflict... nobody wanted to listen... :cry: so I'm trying to be "realistic" (as my teachers always demanded)...



Tom, honestly, whenever this sort of thing happens, I like to just split things up and say "OK, all Star-Bellied Sneeches go this way, all Plain-Bellied Sneeches go that way." And then draw a line and say "OK, Star-bellies this side; Plain-Bellies this side. Stay in your place, don't cross the line, and now please behave yourselves.

This little tactic is seldom used, but it works wonders. I give you the Former Yugoslavia. Croatia and Serbia now sit side-by-side and they just keep to themselves.

Iraq needs to be split into Sunnistan, Kurdistan, and Shi'iastan. Half the nonsense there would stop if the fighting children just got separated.

Israel needs a wall.

Nigeria should never have taken half of the Ibo, Yoruba, and Hausa-Fulani groups each and stuffed them into one country. It's a mess.

Sometimes you just to have separate the fighting children, give each of them some territory, give them something to do (like building a country), and they stop fighting until they grow up to stop acting like tribal idiots and start to act like civilized people.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:i really think that the ceasefire was a mistake on our part, the hizbullah will probably use that time to regroup and prepare for an attack...

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:You mean 'recruit'? frown

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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