the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: simian
NYC, Mike, are you saying that the Isreali military is right to be firing on civilians?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: NYCWritten by: onewheeldave
To me, attacking innocent civilians is wrong and, the fact that Isreals civilians have been atacked does not, IMO, in this scenario, justify then doing the same back.
Last night on TV was a report on the recent incident where several hundred palestinians encircled, and climbed on a house that Israeli military had targeted for bombing.
This seems to pretty well contradict the fact that Israel is TARGETING innocent civilians.
If a house is targeted and innocent civilians run onto it I don't see how that's targeting innocent civilians. I also don't see how hitting people that are acting as human shields for terrorists is 'targeting' them.
A human shield makes a decision to be a human shield to avoid being killed/family killed/etc... Once that decision is made they must face the consequences and I've always maintained that fault goes to those who are making them choose, not those who pull the trigger.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: Doc LightningWritten by: onewheeldave
*Israel should continue to defend itself, when that defence does not include targetting innocent civilians
Now... Good plan. How do you propose Israel defend itself without hitting innocent civilians?
Written by: Doc Lightning
Incidentally, Israel has NEVER targeted innocent civilians. They've hit them plenty to be sure, but never targeted them.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
Written by: simian
NYC, Mike, are you saying that the Isreali military is right to be firing on civilians?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: onewheeldave
By only (or by prioritisng)hitting targets where civiliian losses are a risk, not a certainty.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: Doc LightningWritten by: onewheeldave
By only (or by prioritisng)hitting targets where civiliian losses are a risk, not a certainty.
And how do you propose they do that, Dave?
Written by: Doc
And if those civilians are bringing their children into the war and holding their children up as human shields while they shoot, then they are responsible for the deaths of their own children. If you hurl your child in front of an oncoming train, the train driver is not responsible for your child's death. If you bring your child into a war zone to be a human shield, the opposing side is not responsible for the child's death.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Written by: NYC
So as long as terrorists have innocent kids duct taped to them they should have free reign?
And if the terrorists are using kids to protect them while they kill larger numbers of children then what? Let them kill the kids because we don't want to hurt the kids?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: onewheeldave
The children are innocent, therefore the attack should not take place.
Yes, the parents are out-of-order, yes, they could be said to be to blame for their childrens deaths.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: Mike
You have terrorists in a building filled with civilians (whether there willingly or not) who are firing mortars and rockets at Israeli towns.
What should Israel do?
And do *NOT* answer with what Israel *SHOULDN'T* do. Answer what they SHOULD do. As in what course of action should they take?
Written by: simian
well, i'm not a military strategist, but it'd seem to me that the highly publicised Isreali offensives that cause so many casualties are generally due to deployment of explosive munitions in so-called "surgical strikes".
This is due to a fairly simple choice made in regards to the relative values of life of: israeli military personnel vs palestinian civilian
Modern warfare seems to be leaning toward placing more value on the lives of military personnel, and therefore reducing the relative value of life of a non-combatant. Meaning a reduction in actual "surgical strikes" of the type carried out by highly trained troops putting their lives at risk (google the history of the UK's Special Air Forces for some examples), and an increase on blowing stuff up from a distance.
The question is, how much does one side risk the lives of it's military personnel in order to maintain the safety of the other sides non-combatants?
Written by: NYC
So as long as terrorists have innocent kids duct taped to them they should have free reign?
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about killing civilians
If those civilians are shooting, then yes.
And if those civilians are willingly acting as human shields for those who are shooting, then...yes.
These actions make them combatants.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: simian
ie, taking out targets close up with highly trained troops in lightning raids would eliminate targets
Although the situations obviously have differences, i'm talking about operations along the lines of the covert SAS raids in the 1970s infiltrating Eire to capture IRA Commanders (with no "collateral damage").
Written by: SimianWritten by: NYC
So as long as terrorists have innocent kids duct taped to them they should have free reign?
No, it just means you have to get close enough to shoot them somewhere that a kid isn't. Anything else is simply barbaric, and i'm genuinely shocked that you could hold these opinions.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: Yell fire!
Good posts onewheeldave. Some people can choose not to understand what you're saying but that doesn't mean that nobody does.
As for what Israel *should* do, how about withdrawing to its 1967 borders in return for formal recognition by all Arab states as a starting point.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: onewheeldave
It's easy to construct bizarre examples about terrorists duct taping Palestinian babies and a bomb to themselves, then running into a group of Israeli babies which is one baby bigger than the number of babies duct taped to the terrorist etc.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Written by: Doc Lightning
But when the mortars are coming from miles behind enemy lines, you have an issue with getting the IDF troops in there.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: NYC
I can't JUST point the finger at the Israelis.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: simianWritten by: NYC
I can't JUST point the finger at the Israelis.
This seems a common refrain.
Has anyone who's taken part in this discussion put forward the view that palestinians are blameless?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: Doc Lightning
Dave, I didn't read your post because you went on some philosophical rant about blame and such. You aren't answering my question; you're evading it.
You have terrorists in a building filled with civilians (whether there willingly or not) who are firing mortars and rockets at Israeli towns.
What should Israel do?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: onewheeldaveWritten by: simianWritten by: NYC
I can't JUST point the finger at the Israelis.
This seems a common refrain.
Has anyone who's taken part in this discussion put forward the view that palestinians are blameless?
Thank you
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Written by: NYC
Bizarre examples?
There are plenty of examples of terrorists hijacking planes with babies on them. There are plenty of examples of terrorists launching rockets from school yards. There are plenty of examples of terrorists holding babies in one arm and shooting machine guns from the other.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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