the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Idolized by Aurinoko
Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....
Bob Dylan
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: Doc LightningWritten by: sagetree
the only solution i can suggest would be in agreement with onewheeldave and move Israel. However i don't think the people of Israel would accept this offer, unfortunatley.
Not feasable. Believe me, I'd be all for it myself.
Written by: Doc Lightning
Not feasable. Believe me, I'd be all for it myself.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
Written by: onewheeldave
I think you'd more effectively get your point of view across in this debate if you also gave some indication of why you think it's not feasable.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: andrealee
The point remains, a government may be partially aware of terrorist plans, and not be able or willing to do anything about it. This does not necessarily make them responsible for the terrorists actions when and if they do happen.
Written by:
Mike, I do hope you realize that being against the violent actions taken by Isreal does not mean I am, or anyone else is, " for" actions taken by the Hezbolla, or any other enemies of Isreal? I think that paradigm of "if you are not with us your against us "- divisiveness -is actually in itself a huge impediment to understanding and peace. You can be critical of a choice made, while understanding its origins,and even supporting some or all of its stated intended aims. I don't agree with terrorism either, and have not been ignoring or approving of the heinous actions of the Hezbolla.
NYC, very interesting point. But I dont think the analogy holds all that well when you extend it in dimension from a building to a whole nation.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: sagetree
"Were we right to bomb Japan and kill innocents?"
nope
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: Doc LightningWritten by: onewheeldave
I think you'd more effectively get your point of view across in this debate if you also gave some indication of why you think it's not feasable.
It's not feasable because Israel won't do it. Israelis view that land as the Promised Land (Ha'Ysrael) and won't take anywhere else other than the land of Israel.
So the only FEASABLE option in the REAL WORLD is a wall. And a clear warning that anyone approaching within a given distance of said wall WILL be fired upon. And that will probably stop the killing, or at least minimize it.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: NYCWritten by: onewheeldave
I ask again, if the terrorists were hiding, not in Lebanon, but in US/UK cities, would you all feel that Israel was justified in bombing London/New York.
Would you all feel as complacent and accepting, if it was your mother/father/sister/brother who had ben killed in a Israeli bombing attack.
If terrorists using Muslim civilians as shields justifies Israeli killings, then why wouldn't them operating in UK/US citizens justify similar attacks?
I think you're comparing apples and oranges. We can try and make it apples and apples and I'll give you my own personal response. Please accept this as a BAD analogy and try and focus on my point rather than my details.
If:
1) I was in my building in New York City
2) Terrorists had taken over the building and were shooting rockets into Montreal, Canada.
3) The US government was unable to stop the threat due to lack of power
4) The terrorists had secured the building making a rescue too dangerous.
I say to the Canadian millitary: Blow up my building.
My life is not more important that the Canadians that are being killed.
And full blame for my death should go towards the terrorists, not the Canadian government or the pilot that pulled the trigger.
****
If a US plane was hijacked with me and my family on it and it was being flown into into the Empire State Building I would WANT my government to shoot me down and 'kill innocent civilians' (me!) to save the lives of others.
***
I know the situation in Israel is VERY different and MUCH more complex.
My fundemental opinion on the scruples question is:
If a terrorist organization puts a security force in a position to either kill me (innocent civilian) to save other civilians, I would expect them to do it and full blame would go to THOSE WHO INITIATED THE SITUATION, not those who pulled the trigger.
Now I will end by repeating three more times:
I know the situation in Israel is VERY different and MUCH more complex.
I know the situation in Israel is VERY different and MUCH more complex.
I know the situation in Israel is VERY different and MUCH more complex.
*runs away*
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: onewheeldave
However, as I think at least one other person on this thread has pointed out- given, as you yourself know to be the case, that the terrorists do not care about civilians dying, that the terrorists are not interested in peace, and that as far as the terrorists are concerned, the more violent Israel becomes, the better: given all that, surely the very first thing the terrorists will do once the wall is built, is fire missiles over it, bringing down armageddon on the country they fire it from.
ie building the wall will create more killing.
Yes/no? If no, please explain where the above reasoning is wrong.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by:
Cpt Doron Spielman told BBC News the battle was being fought at close range and accused Hezbollah of using the civilian population as human shields.
"Hezbollah blockaded the city before the battle began, and we now know at gunpoint forced the Lebanese residents to stay inside the city," Cpt Spielman said.
"We are engaged in a very close combat urban battle - but there are Lebanese civilians trapped inside the city which makes our progress very difficult. We are trying of course to take care of the terrorists while preserving civilian life."
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Doc LightningWritten by: Birgit
right... that's just ridiculous. 1 rocket and Israel invades the country? Like, even if the majority of Lebanese or Syrians or Palestinians (if that counts as a country in that respect) decides to leave Israel alone, and 1 militant fires off a rocket, Israel's given the right to take the whole country? Sorry, that's just a REALLY bad idea. But it'd probably get the support from the USA
Well done for hitting that UN/Unifil post and killing 4 people who I suppose hid Hezboolah terrorists, too, by the way!
Again, if you don't want to get hit, don't hit.
:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!!
Homer rocks!!!!
Written by: Stone
A gesture of commitment by Israel would be a good start. Something like offering the Muslims complete sovereignty over Temple Mount would end jihad. Sure, Israel would have to give up something, but what price do you put on world peace? The ball is in your court. The choice between Peace and War is yours. What are you going to do?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: andrealee
uhm. Doc. you do realize you are on a poi forum? I mean, yeah, we are interested in the subject, learning and debating and expressing opinoins, but can we really be expected by you to solve the middle east crisis? it is you who needs to get real .
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: andrealee
Yikes! I dont agree that whats currently being done is necessarily actually the best thing!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: GitasGuy
Doc if your neighbour was a wanted criminal and just by chance the police raided your house and you were killed. Do you see that to be acceptable.
These poor (one without money) people cant choose what terrorist cell moves in next door to them (so to speak) yet they become the victims.
They have hit nobody but now they are being hit!!!!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!!
Homer rocks!!!!
Written by: GitasGuy
Got another question for you Doc. Supposedly Israel started this war to retrieve there 2 soldiers.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!!
Homer rocks!!!!
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
Written by: GitasGuy
Israel started it offensive on the grounds of retrieving the kidnapped soldiers.
Which was just a good excuse to flex their muscles once again, knowing no one in the region can stop then and they have the USA wrapped around their little finger
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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