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Forums > Social Discussion > Pirates of the Carribean and Hollywood Crap

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Okay...this may contain a slight spoiler..I haven't decided yet but I wanted to put the warning up anyway.

The next part is a complete rant.
I am sick to freakin' death with Hollywood but I am stuck in a catch 22 because I love movies. However, they don't want people to download and yet they raise the costs of movies which makes it hard to go and then pull shyte like they did with the recent P.O.T.C. movie.

The thing is a freakin' waste of money. There is one good fight scene and two good lines (both of which are in the trailer). There is little character developement and the only redeeming factor are some of the characters they brought back. It is predictable, at times quite boring and more reliant on the look of it over the actual plot.

Conceptually it is a brilliant movie and Disney completely failed to deliver on the concept. Why when they have such resources? Because they know we are massive dipshits that will pay too much to see a movie without fully understanding that all it really is is a trailer for the next movie.

Yup. That's right. This movie literally doesn't end. It has a giant dot-dot-dot at the end leading to the third movie.
NOTHING is concluded. So I paid for my family to sit for 2 1/2 hours, half of it bored and wondering when it would pick up just to see a freakin' commercial that went NOWHERE.

And I am pissed.

To hell with Hollywood.
From now on we are going to download the movies, watch them at home and then if they are worthy of my money I will only then pay to see them on a large screen.

And I can tell you that this movie is most definately not worth it. I hated it when the Matrix did this shyte, I hate it more with this movie...mainly because it was so long.

(But for reference point, things like LOTR and such I knew were going to be as such, and each section had a defined ending so I was fine with those)

Oh, and there were some *very* bad CGI sections in this as well...which were mostly unecessary anyway. UGH.

Rant over..I think..for now...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted:i atually had no choice to go and see it on the big screen ..... usualy i refuse to pay the prices but it was a treat so didn't mind.

i'm not a huge fan of CGI and i do think it was used a bit too much and generaly thought i was a great movie but not as good as the first. as for ending i had been warned that it had huge cliff hanger at the end and i ould shout at the screen. it didn't though it just made me go "oooooooooooooooh"

i honestly think though that if the film didn't contain pirates i just wouldn't of enjoyed i so much, as the pirate factor clouds my judgment some times ubblol


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I have to agree that this one wasn't as good as the first as far as plot goes, although as far as CGI goes, I thought the effects were AMAZING. Davey Jones and his crew were spectacular. I did think there was some character development and plot development. SPOILER WARNING

First, there's the issue with the sinking of the Pearl, and Sparrow's livelihood. We know he'll be back... Then there's the whole crush between Elizabeth (is that her name...I suck at this) and Jack and the fact that Will saw them kiss. And there's the fact that Will meets his father. Lots of plot development. Oh, and the fact that old animosities become alliances and alliances have fallen and become animosities.

Yes, it's a set-up for a finale, but it's pretty good.

Now, we all saw Barbosa die. What the hell's he doing eating an apple? And how come the monkey's still undead?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted:ah but did we see him die or just fall to the floor after being shot? ubblol the crew did look amaizing though agreed..... especialy Mr Jones himself. as for the monkey i am not sure and that did confuse as well as scare me frown

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I do have a complaint. I do not enjoy movies that spend a lot of time with someone snooping around with eerie music and then something jumps out and startles the bujeesus out of you.

It's cute once or twice, but this movie WAY over-played that card.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:honestly? I just went for Johnny. No other reason. So I have no complaints. biggrin

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted:would just like to say something on the Barbosa subject.
At the said part of the film it was said that they would need some on who has sailed those seas of doom and gloom. and who's the one to do that? I very much doubt whether after all that time of being cursed only to be killed he was more than a little peeved and saw no point in letting being dead stop him from having coming back to get that all so important revenge. see makes sense now doesn't it?
The only thing we can think of for the monkey is that he could of well stole a coin of his own after the rest of the crew had been de-cursed... he's a naughty little monkey he should of learnt what happens when you do that after the firt time he had done it...or perhaps he just didn't ike the idea of getting to be an old monkey ubblol


And as for teh Jack factor *swoon* its the only time i have ever found Mr Depp to be atractive and Mr Bloom come to thin of it. Hell i just love Pirates. biggrin


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Firetramp


Firetramp

old hand
Location: Binstead, Isle of Wight

Total posts: 896
Posted:About the monkey; I guess u didn't stay till after the titles of the first movie...

Does that mean the dog will play a big part in the third one...?


Ask a question and be a fool for a minute...don't ask and be a fool your whole life.

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solar_bear
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

solar_bear

journeyman
Location: Kent, UK

Total posts: 78
Posted: Written by: Pele



...I am sick to freakin' death with Hollywood but I am stuck in a catch 22 because I love movies.

 Written by: Prometheus



I completely agree that Hollywood, like the music industry, is churning out more and more crap in the hopes that something will hit it big, instead of focusing on creating a few high-quality products...

 Written by: Brit_Joe



Well thats hollywood for you isnt it. They just throw millions of dollars into mediocre scripts and think thats enough...



The simple fact is that many Hollywood films tell exactly the same story, over and over again (although to be fair, so have several authors over several years / decades / centuries). In fact, the history of the story they all tell, stretches way back to the roots of mythology itself and its name is...



The Campbell Monomyth a.k.a The Hero's Journey



Joseph Campbell (March 26, 1904 October 31, 1987) was an American professor, writer, and orator best known for his work in the fields of comparative mythology and comparative religion...



...Campbell believed all the religions of the world, all the rituals and deities, to be masks of the same transcendent truth which is unknowable.... Campbell was fascinated by what he viewed as universal sentiments and truths, disseminated through cultures which all featured different manifestations...



...Heroes played a crucial role in his comparative studies. In 1949
The Hero with a Thousand Faces introduced his idea of the monomyth (borrowed from [James] Joyce [especially Finnigan's Wake]...)... Heroes were important to Campbell because, to him, they conveyed universal truths about how one should live one's life and about an individual's role in society...

Source - Wikipedia



Whatever guise it takes, a re-telling of Campbell's Monomyth always contains the following key elements...



1. Call to Adventure Increased Awareness

2. Refusal of the Call Reluctance to Change

3. Meeting the Mentor Overcoming Reluctance

4. Crossing the First Threshold Committing to Change

5. Tests, Allies, Enemies Experimenting with First Change

6. Approach the Inmost Cave Preparing for Big Change

7. Ordeal Attempting Big Change

8. Reward Consequence of the Attempt

9. Road Back Rededication to Change

10. Resurrection Final Attempt at Big Change

11. Return with the Elixir Final Mastery of the Problem


Source - Wikipedia



Campbell summarised it thus, in his 1949 book, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, initially in a single sentence...



The hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.



... but later in detail...



The mythological hero, setting forth from his commonday hut or castle, is lured, carried away, or else voluntarily proceeds, to the threshold of adventure. There he encounters a shadowy presence that guards the passage. The hero may defeat or conciliate this power and go alive into the kingdom of the dark (brother-battle, dragon-battle; offering, charm), or be slain by the Opponent and descend in death (dismemberment, crucifixion). Beyond the threshold, then, the hero journeys through a world of unfamiliar yet strangely intimate forces, some of which severely threaten him (tests), some of which give magical aid (helpers). When he arrives at the nadir of the mythological round, he undergoes a supreme ordeal and gains his reward. The triumph may be represented as the hero's sexual union with the goddess-mother of the world (sacred marriage), his recognition by the father-creator (father atonement), his own divinization (apotheosis), or again - if the powers have remained unfriendly to him - his theft of the boon he came to gain (bride-theft, fire-theft)... The final work is that of the return. If the powers have blessed the hero, he now sets forth under their protection (emissary); if not, he flees and is pursued (transformation flight, obstacle flight)... the hero re-emerges from the kingdom of dread (return, resurrection). The boon that he brings restores the world (elixir)... Source



Sound familiar? It ought to.



George Lucas was probably the first Hollywood filmmaker to acknowledge Campbell's influence and openly stated in the 1970s, that the Star Wars story had been very heavily influenced by the ideas expressed in The Hero with a Thousand Faces.



Some of the following are personal opinion (marked with a *), but other re-tellings of The Campbell Monomyth include (although are by no means limited to)...



The Matrix

The Hobbit / Lord of the Rings

The Lion King

Minority Report*

Hitch-hiker's Guide To The Galaxy*

Pinnochio*

Terminator*

The Odyssey
(Homer)

Some episodes of The Simpsons



and, of course, dear old Pirates of the Caribbean*



So-called "interesting plot twists" often seem to me, to be deliberate departures from or perversions of the Monomyth, such as in Terry Gilliam's Brazil, where it finally transpires that the Hero (Jonathon Pryce / Sam Lowry) has been dead for the final half hour of the film (see also Time Bandits, where the child hero is left standing outside the half-burnt remains of his house, with both parents killed).

EDITED_BY: solar_bear (1153130082)


It may stop, but it never ends.

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted:no i didn't stay until the end... i tend to want to get out of their ASAP

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:although the general story is true, of course they make the story relevant to the particluar culture. and *some* of those movies you mentioned Solar_bear also have specific meanings/warnings about possible futures.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Hey, it's Johnny Depp. What more do we want?

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:2 sets of 3 words: -

'The' 'Astronaut's' 'Wife'

and

'Nick' 'of' 'Time'


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:ubblol at Valura....you hit the nail on the head with that one! mmmm, johhny....

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Azadondo
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Azadondo

journeyman
Location: Los Angeles, USA

Total posts: 59
Posted:Here is my rather lengthy opinion of the movie (it is summed up in the first sentance)

I loved the movie. I loved it even more the second time I saw it. Alot of people say that they don't like the way it is structured and the ending-- you need to look at the larger picture. They had three options when starting this endeavor. They could have told three completely separate stories that had little to do with each other than the reoccuring central character (Indiana Jones, Jurrassic Park) or croup of character (X-Men, Spiderman); or they could have chose to tell one story that stretches across three movies (Star Wars, LOTR. They chose to tell one long story. So they are essentially extending the three act structure through the entire trilogy. The first act introduces a problem for the characters to solve (this problem acts as way to introduce the characters) the problem is solved by the end of act one, but a larger problem is revealed and the rest of the two acts focusses on solving the second act. During the second act the problem is complicated and the hero(s) are forced to overcome a series of escalating problems and the second act ends with the hero at his darkest point. This movie ends with our hero, Jack, at his lowest point. The next will get our hero(s) out of this and solve the major problem.



*****SPOILER*****

I think that bringing back Barbosa was a brilliant move. A) It brings back a great actor. B) It brings back a great character. C) It sets up a wonderful matching with Jack and Barbosa. They are essentially the same, but Barbosa is slighty less trust worthy. He isn't really a bad guy at all, he is just another pirate. Davey Jones (who was beautifully played by Bill Nighy) is evil.

The movie also developed the characters of Elizebeth and Will. I wasn't all that excited to see them come back on at the beggining of the movie, but they were so interesting to watch. Especially Elizebeth, who kept me guess almost as much as, if not more than, Jack did. William in this became more than just the strate man for Jack to play off of, but was interesting and gave Orlando Bloom something more to play and something to do on screen.

All the preformances was great, the effects (other than the cracken at the very end) were astonishing in my opinion.

**TIP FOR CITY DWELLERS** If you live in a big city, and even small cities, movies will have press screenings for critics to go see the movie. It is in their best interest if these showings are full, because it gives the reviewer a sense of how the audience will react, more people=more energy, those people will tell people to see the movie. But I digress, they give away free passes to these. You can normally find them online if you do a search, if you can't get it that way, Barns & Noble's often getss alot of these passes for people to pick up, so ask them. It is how I have seen every movie for the past several months (and you get to see them a week or so in advance)


Performing marriages, funerals, baptisisms, last rites and absolving the sins for HoPers for-- not very long actually.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: Azadondo


Davey Jones (who was beautifully played by Bill Nighy) is evil.





But interestingly, trustworthy. cool


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pen Draven


Pen Draven

Unofficial Lord Of Confusion And Pirate Extrodinaire
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 1363
Posted:I'm Really Rather looking forwards to seeing this tonight biggrin Been a while since i had my Pirate Fix heh

Some men see things and say why....

I Dream of things that never were and say Why Not....?

Oh No I'm going to get Shot Alive if he finds out - DA wink

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Azadondo, the thing with using LOTR or SW as examples is that they did indeed encompass smaller plots with in larger ones which *were* wrapped up at the end of each "chapter" so to speak. It is why I love those movies so. Another example of this is Harry Potter. Big story over all, smaller ones to fill it all in but each with a concise ending.
POTC didn't even attempt it.

Newspapers give away the free passes as well, but what also needs to be said is they give away more free passes then there are seats in the theater. It is a first come, first served situation for most, so get there early. I've seen alot of films this way, however, for top billing movies in our area they only give them away through radio station contests and the like. And usually only two, which doesn't help if you have a family.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
Posted:I think the point trying to be made is that POTC 1 was a stand-alone movie as well as being the beginning of a trilogy. If they never made a sequel, I'd be happy with the way the first one ended. It didn't need more chapters. Same goes for trilogies like Star Wars or Harry Potter. You don't need to see the previous films to understand or enjoy the current one. (Imagine having to see every Star Trek movie before watching The Undiscovered Country.)

A note on movie passes. Newspapers do get some, radio stations get a few, trade papers get the most. If you live in a major city, and are lucky enough to have an artsy, night-life, what's-going-on kind of weekly paper, that's where you'll find the most/best movies passes. They often advertise them as well "Come to Such&Such at Noon on Tuesday to get free passes to Whatever: Pt. 2."


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Azadondo
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Azadondo

journeyman
Location: Los Angeles, USA

Total posts: 59
Posted:Each of the LOTR movies had a huge cliff hanger ending, but people didn't notice/didn't mind because they all ended with a pull away shot in a gorgeous setting with a voice over monologue from Sam. SW did the same thing but with John Williams music instead of a monologue. Harry Potter is a totally different animal in that it is not a trilogy but a-- I don't know what to call it. POTC could have done something similar to cap the movie with an false ending, but that isn't the genere they were dealing with. I don't think this one was as good as the first one, but I think it was a good middle child of a trilogy. Once the third one comes out and people can watch them streight through, the cliff hanger ending won't bug people as much, if at all.

But at the end of the day, everyone of the movies we have listed is from Hollywood and everything said about Hollywood is sadly true. If you don't want to deal with Hollywood and its endless pile of crap-- then don't. Go to independant theatre houses. Little Miss Sunshine, which i think is already out, is a wonderful independant film that you can take your family to and everyone will enjoy. The writing, directing and preformances are all wonderful. The movie is both funny and poignant. That might get over your frustration with POTC.

Here is the trailer: http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox_searchlight/littlemisssunshine/trailer/
br>Here are a few reviews:
http://www.cinemablend.com/reviews/Little-Miss-Sunshine-1662.html
br>http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10006346-little_miss_sunshine/


Performing marriages, funerals, baptisisms, last rites and absolving the sins for HoPers for-- not very long actually.

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3999
Posted:on a side note i Wathed the first LOTR and didn't like it so didn't watch the others.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:What is the cliff hanger at the end of Pirates 1? Jack sails off in his ship, Will and Elizabeth get together... If there WAS going to be a continuing plot, then it would be Norrington chasing Jack again. Which isn't what happens.

Structurally, POTC 1 is like A New Hope, but POTC 2 isn't like Empire Strikes Back. Maybe because I don't like Will, and love Skywalker, but the better "middle" film I think is SW


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I didn't like Star Wars 5 at all.

And if I may just say, at risk of offending Tolkien fans, the 2nd part (or, 3&4 in the books) was really bad. I mean, okay, Rohan isn't too bad, but the rest is just Frodo walking over endless stretches of countryside, completely oblivious to Gollum being evil, and moaning, moaning, MOANING about the ring! wink

For the plot I'd prefer the Pirates!


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Pen Draven


Pen Draven

Unofficial Lord Of Confusion And Pirate Extrodinaire
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 1363
Posted:Well,, Watched it last night and Rather liked it smile

Lots of humour which to me is utterly important in a film because thats just the way i am lol, but also a plot that i could get to grips with,, not sure if i found it better than the first as it'll need another viewing or two,, but still it gets my thumbs up.


Some men see things and say why....

I Dream of things that never were and say Why Not....?

Oh No I'm going to get Shot Alive if he finds out - DA wink

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:All I gotta say is any movie that overshadows the acting tallents of Johny Depp with cheesy CG effects and one piss poor Leviathon (someone shoulda sent Disney some Robert Antwon Willson books...) deserves to be shot.

For that matter, Secret Window can be shot too but that was just poor writing...


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