Time does not exist. In theory, everything with a beginning has an end. Therefore, only things with an end can have a beginning. As time has no end, it has no beginning, therefore does not exist. GO PHILOSOPHY!!!
Brittle Week was the shizz!!!
Written by: Stout
OWD...I "found" this, which has a significantly different interpretation of the first noble truth than the link I previously posted. well, in the sense that it doesn't state all life is suffering.
It this a "better" translation of dukkah ?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: www.Buddhanet.net
Especially emphasized in Mahayana Buddhism, all sentient beings have Buddha Nature/ Essence. One can become a Buddha (a supreme enlightened being) in due course if one practises diligently and attains purity of mind (ie absolutely no delusions or afflictions).
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by:
Fire Tom, I can appreciate why you call Buddhism a religion, and that is fine. What I object to is your insistence that everyone ever one else should subscribe to your opinion.
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Siddharta as Student of Meditation
When Siddhartha reached Magadha, an important kingdom in Central India, he studied first under Alara Kalama from whom he learned the technique of meditation that enabled the adept to attain a state of nothingness. Siddhartha then sought out Uddaka Ramaputta who taught the technique of meditation of neither perception nor non-perception, a meditation which removed the mind from all contact with the world of sensation. Though more profound than the meditation of nothingness, when the meditation was over, the problems of the world returned, thus quieting the mind was an inadequate technique for attaining true wisdom.
Siddharta as a Forest Ascetic
In the company of Kondanna, Bhaddiya, Vappa, Mahanama, and Assaji, Siddharta entered the forests to practice the greatest austerities of self-mortification in order to gain wisdom and freedom.
Written by:
If I'm making/ quoting "ridiculous (3.rd hand) statements about Buddhism", please point them out.Written by:
Most Buddhists (East or Western) do have devotional figures, these figures represent "the (Gautama) Buddha" and are subject of worship.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: FireTom
Topic: Is "Buddhism - (a) religion or way of life?"
All I said is that in my opinion you can refer to (and live) Buddhism as both: a philosophy/ way of life just as much as you can regard (and live) it as a religion.
OWD and Stone, you insist that Buddhism can NOT be regarded as a religion. Evidence: Buddhism in it's pure form has no "higher beings" and "deities".
As pointed out, Animism too has no deities and higher beings, still gets classified as a religion.Written by: [url=https://www.Buddhanet.net
www.Buddhanet.net[/url]]Especially emphasized in Mahayana Buddhism, all sentient beings have Buddha Nature/ Essence. One can become a Buddha (a supreme enlightened being) in due course if one practises diligently and attains purity of mind (ie absolutely no delusions or afflictions).
OWD It's increasingly tiring to get dragged into an argument by you, when you don't want one. I didn't judge on your judgements, but clearly emphasized that "there is no right and wrong in my world" and there is "no conclusive judgement on anyone". Next thing you do is to accuse me of judging - equalling my 'observations' with 'negative judgements ' - and thereby contradicting myself... (sigh)
Now I would have to repeat my statement in a different way, try to explain myself to you, so you finally understand what I'm trying to point out... (le sigh)
You "appearing arrogant" doesn't equal that "you are wrong".
"observation" = (subjectively) neutral, no judgement involved
"evaluation" = no judgement in terms of "absolute" either, simply filtering
"judging" does not equal "breathing"
IMHO it's further erroneous to believe that only religions would be open for corruption and misdemeanour and philosophies would be not.
Stone, thanks for correcting your quoting self - so I don't have to. If I'm making/ quoting "ridiculous (3.rd hand) statements about Buddhism", please point them out.
Maybe I have to further specify: "Most Buddhists I came across do have Buddha images" (which are subject to devotional practices - I didn't specify as how).
Adapting Buddhism to western culture is not wrong - I side that.
Please stop accusing me of being a judgmental person, if in fact you have no indications of it. If you accuse me of not living in the "real world" then prove it.
Buddhism can be lived as a religion, as much as Christianity can be lived as a philosophy.
You have issues with the term "religion", don't you?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: Stone
If you are tired of arguing, then stop.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
Is it a religion?
It is neither a religion in the sense in which that word is commonly understood, for it is not "a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being."
Buddhism does not demand blind faith from its adherents. Here mere belief is dethroned and is substituted by confidence based on knowledge, which, in Pali, is known as saddha. The confidence placed by a follower on the Buddha is like that of a sick person in a noted physician, or a student in his teacher. A Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha because it was he who discovered the path of deliverance.
A Buddhist does not seek refuge in the Buddha with the hope that he will be saved by his (i.e. the Buddha's own) personal purification. The Buddha gives no such guarantee. It is not within the power of a Buddha to wash away the impurities of others. One could neither purify nor defile another. The Buddha, as teacher, instructs us, but we ourselves are directly responsible for our purification. Although a Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha, he does not make any self-surrender. Nor does a Buddhist sacrifice his freedom of thought by becoming a follower of the Buddha. He can exercise his own free will and develop his knowledge even to the extent of becoming a Buddha himself.
The starting point of Buddhism is reasoning or understanding, or, in the Pali words, samma-ditthi.
To the seekers of truth the Buddha says:
"Do not accept anything on (mere) hearsay -- (i.e., thinking that thus have we heard it for a long time). Do not accept anything by mere tradition -- (i.e., thinking that it has thus been handed down through many generations). Do not accept anything on account of mere rumors -- (i.e., by believing what others say without any investigation). Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures. Do not accept anything by mere suppositions. Do not accept anything by mere inference. Do not accept anything by merely considering the reasons. Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions. Do not accept anything merely because it seems acceptable -- (i.e., thinking that as the speaker seems to be a good person his words should be accepted). Do not accept anything thinking that the ascetic is respected by us (therefore it is right to accept his word).
"But when you know for yourselves -- these things are immoral, these things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken conduce to ruin and sorrow -- then indeed do you reject them.
"When you know for yourselves -- these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness -- then do you live acting accordingly."
These inspiring words of the Buddha still retain their original force and freshness.
Though there is no blind faith, one might argue whether there is no worshipping of images etc., in Buddhism.
Buddhists do not worship an image expecting worldly or spiritual favors, but pay their reverence to what it represents.
An understanding Buddhist, in offering flowers and incense to an image, designedly makes himself feel that he is in the presence of the living Buddha and thereby gains inspiration from his noble personality and breathes deep his boundless compassion. He tries to follow the Buddha's noble example.
The Bo-tree is also a symbol of Enlightenment. These external objects of reverence are not absolutely necessary, but they are useful as they tend to concentrate one's attention. An intellectual person could dispense with them as he could easily focus his attention and visualize the Buddha. For our own good, and out of gratitude, we pay such external respect but what the Buddha expects from his disciple is not so much obeisance as the actual observance of his Teachings. The Buddha says -- "He honors me best who practices my teaching best." "He who sees the Dhamma sees me."
With regard to images, however, Count Kevserling remarks -- "I see nothing more grand in this world than the image of the Buddha. It is an absolutely perfect embodiment of spirituality in the visible domain."
Furthermore, it must be mentioned that there are no petitional or intercessory prayers in Buddhism. However much we may pray to the Buddha we cannot be saved. The Buddha does not grant favors to those who pray to him. Instead of petitional prayers there is meditation that leads to self-control, purification and enlightenment. Meditation is neither a silent reverie nor keeping the mind blank. It is an active striving. It serves as a tonic both to the heart and the mind. The Buddha not only speaks of the futility of offering prayers but also disparages a slave mentality. A Buddhist should not pray to be saved, but should rely on himself and win his freedom.
"Prayers take the character of private communications, selfish bargaining with God. It seeks for objects of earthly ambitions and inflames the sense of self. Meditation on the other hand is self-change." -- Sri Radhakrishnan.
In Buddhism there is not, as in most other religions, an Almighty God to be obeyed and feared. The Buddha does not believe in a cosmic potentate, omniscient and omnipresent. In Buddhism there are no divine revelations or divine messengers. A Buddhist is, therefore, not subservient to any higher supernatural power which controls his destinies and which arbitrarily rewards and punishes. Since Buddhists do not believe in revelations of a divine being Buddhism does not claim the monopoly of truth and does not condemn any other religion. But Buddhism recognizes the infinite latent possibilities of man and teaches that man can gain deliverance from suffering by his own efforts independent of divine help or mediating priests.
Buddhism cannot, therefore, strictly be called a religion because it is neither a system of faith and worship, nor "the outward act or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a God or gods having power over their own destiny to whom obedience, service, and honor are due."
If, by religion, is meant "a teaching which takes a view of life that is more than superficial, a teaching which looks into life and not merely at it, a teaching which furnishes men with a guide to conduct that is in accord with this its in-look, a teaching which enables those who give it heed to face life with fortitude and death with serenity,"[6] or a system to get rid of the ills of life, then it is certainly a religion of religions.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: Stone
What I object to is your insistence that everyone ever one else should subscribe to your opinion.
Written by: Firetom
I observe my mind to quickly classify, but that only is it's purpose.
Written by: Stone
If you observe your mind to quickly classify, and that’s is it’s only purpose.
Written by: Stone
It comes across as if you think you are close to becoming a supreme enlightened being.
Written by: Stone
If you are suggesting that you can do it on your own, because Buddha did, then I will point out once again, that Siddharta Gotama did have training before he reached enlightenment:
Written by: accesstoinsight.org
It would be a mistake, however, to conclude that the Buddha disparaged a reverential and devotional attitude of mind when it is the natural outflow of a true understanding and a deep admiration of what is great and noble. It would also be a grievous error to believe that the "seeing of the Dhamma" (spoken of in the first saying) is identical with a mere intellectual appreciation and purely conceptual grasp of the doctrine. Such a one-sided abstract approach to the very concrete message of the Buddha all too often leads to intellectual smugness. In its barrenness it will certainly not be a substitute for the strong and enlivening impulse imparted by a deep-felt devotion to what is known as great, noble and exemplary. Devotion, being a facet and natural accompaniment of confidence (saddha), is a necessary factor in the "balance of faculties" (indriya-samata) required for final deliverance. Confidence, in all its aspects, including the devotional, is needed to resolve any stagnation and other shortcomings resulting from a one-sided development of the intellectual faculties. Such development often tends to turn around in circles endlessly, without being able to effect a break-through. Here, devotion, confidence and faith — all aspects of the Pali term saddha — may be able to give quick and effective help.
Written by: Buddhanetnet
If, by religion, is meant "a teaching which takes a view of life that is more than superficial, a teaching which looks into life and not merely at it, a teaching which furnishes men with a guide to conduct that is in accord with this its in-look, a teaching which enables those who give it heed to face life with fortitude and death with serenity,"[6] or a system to get rid of the ills of life, then it is certainly a religion of religions.
Written by: OWD's quote
Buddhism does not claim the monopoly of truth and does not condemn any other religion.
Written by: Buddhanetnet
"But when you know for yourselves -- these things are immoral, these things are blameworthy, these things are censured by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken conduce to ruin and sorrow -- then indeed do you reject them.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: FireTom
........evidence of Buddhism to be a philosophy rather than a religion:
1) Buddhism is non dogmatic
2) Buddhism has no devotional practice
3) Buddhism has no supernatural beings, deities
4) Buddhism is not a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being
5) Buddhism does not require blind faith
6) Buddhism does not have worshipping of idols
7) Buddhism does not consist of petitional or intercessory prayers
8) Buddhism does not have an almighty god (*note 3&4)
9) Buddhism has no (ultimate) saviour
Is there anything that I forgot, or misinterpreted? Please correct me and complete the list.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
The body is mortal and when it dies, consciousness and all mental activities cease. That is why there is no soul. The idea of soul is simply an extension of the self. Soul is the immortal version of the self that supposedly survives physical death. Since we know that consciousness is a function of our nervous system, it seems difficult to believe that the conscious self survives death. Hence, Buddhists deny the reality of both self and soul.
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The body is mortal and when it dies, consciousness and all mental activities cease. That is why there is no soul. The idea of soul is simply an extension of the self. Soul is the immortal version of the self that supposedly survives physical death. Since we know that consciousness is a function of our nervous system, it seems difficult to believe that the conscious self survives death. Hence, Buddhists deny the reality of both self and soul.
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Rebirth is a recurrent theme in the literature of inner transformation. Inner transformation is primarily a death and rebirth, the death of an old identity and the birth of a new one, on a deeper level of reality…(ahalmaas.com/glossary).
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Written by: Stout
OWD...what do you see as being the differences between your interpretation of spirituality..and philosophy ( the study of thinking )
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
But, when it comes to our emotions and entrenched habitual ways of thinking/feeling- they are generally not that responsive to just reason/rationality.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: FireTom
OWD I reckon we're moving on a bit fast.
First of all, you approve the above list? With the necessary addition of Stout, that
10) Buddhism denies the existence of a soul.
What you comment on point 3, 4 and 8 (I think) has been made clear sufficiently. Please rephrase these, if you think they are not. But basically: Are we now clear on this catalogue? Do we now agree on this? Because if we do, I could start listing my evidence and questions.
Written by: onewheeldave
I think it would be useful to add the fact that, the Buddha himself, who originated buddhism, specifically stated 3 & 8 with statements saying that the existences of gods/supernatural beings were irrelevant to buddhism and, pointing out on another occasion, that he himself was not a god.
I feel this is important because, as we all know, there are groups who consider themselves buddhist, who do seem to consider gods etc to be real and very relevant to what they do.
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10) Buddhism denies the existence of a soul.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: FireTom
I do understand the (your) motifs of classifying Buddhism as a mere philosophy, rather than a religion.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
A human judge engages in a natural language conversation with one human and one machine, each of which try to appear human; if the judge cannot reliably tell which is which, then the machine is said to pass the test.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Wiki
The term Bodhisatta (Pali language) was used by the Buddha in the Pali Canon to refer to himself both in his previous lives and as a young man in his current life, prior to his enlightenment, in the period during which he was working towards his own liberation.
Written by: G*d(I believe the rest of the quote has been added later, so I cut it)
“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them;
Written by: Wiki
"So in this way recitation of the mantra helps achieve perfection in the six practices from generosity to wisdom. The path of these six perfections is the path walked by all the Buddhas of the three times. What could then be more meaningful than to say the mantra and accomplish the six perfections?" (Gen Rinpoche, Heart Treasure of the Enlightened Ones)
Written by: Wiki on Judaism
Some Jewish denominations disagree with Rabbinic Judaism regarding the nature or importance of the afterlife. For them, the "world to come" may not be a significant focus of religious thought, since they emphasize that Judaism concentrates on the here and now.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to