Forums > Social Discussion > Simplified Spelling....diskuhs

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:
see heer


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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AnDien
newbie

Member Since: 18th Apr 2006
Total posts: 6
Posted:I love Spanish btw. Coleman was right about what I was saying. Also, I was pointing out that the reason why there are so many illiterate people in America is not because the language is so hard. Maybe it has something to do with our society and the families that these kids are coming from.

A friend of mine moved to Albania in the 7th grade, and he learned English just fine. Sometimes he'll slip up with idioms and he still has an Albanian accent, but it's not like he doesn't know English, he's one of the best writers in our class and scored high on the SATs and he was in my AP English Lang and AP English Lit classes.


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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:that was the hardest thing to read in the whole world.

there could be SOME changes but come on

I learn the alphabet in a way that is only NOW becoming popular - by learning the sounds and that made the phonetic actual very hard

and what about words with the same sound but different spellings?

read, reed,
lead, led

blimey, Eether... does that no sound like the chemical term for alcohol? and use of ae for ey , ay and aet for ate.

I REALLY hope this doesn't catch on because then people who speak english will be writing 2 different languages for a generation.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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BEZERKER
BEZERKER

enthusiast

Member Since: 29th Apr 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:The thought of this frustrates me ALMOST as much as people using the fictitious word (but now accepted because SO many people make the mistake of using it) IRREGARDLESS.

Don't know why but I just feel strongly the language should stay as it is. Even with it idiosyncracies, different rules, interpritations and accents.


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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:
Rather than re-working english, why not just have everyone learn esperanto?

Personally, I'd rather learn a completely new language than have to keep abreast of all the new commitee-decided bastardisations of english.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Welsh is a phonetic language too biggrin

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: TheBovrilMonkey



Rather than re-working english, why not just have everyone learn esperanto?



Because Spanish is a much better language for when you're schtupping...or for when you're really angry at someone.

(I *heart* Spanish)


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Mike, you are far too obsessed with the word "schtupping"



ubblol



And Romanian is really good for when you are angry! Must be the Latin base!

EDITED_BY: Rouge Dragon (1152493749)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:It's the best word in the WORLD!!!

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:One thing I have noticed is that many here are saying "This language is better because it is phonetic..or because of the limited vowel sounds.."

Now, Hawaiian has limited vowel sounds but they use them everywhere. It is a freakin' HARD language to learn.

Next, American and English are two very different languages in my opinion. Yes, I understand they are technically dialects of the same language. Yet there are enough differences that to many Americans English (not American) is a foreign language, which is why different spellings are acceptible.

And last..the reason why American/English has the multi-level sound structure is actually because of OTHER languages. We do not have a simple organic language that developed untouched by outside influences..such as many of the Asian or Hindi variations.

American especially is the culmination of ALOT of different languages. Each has brought it's own linguistic nuances to the table, which is why things are spelled oddly more often than not. The options for expression are amazing within our language vs. many others which are severely limited, as was mentioned earlier by phrasing or a lack of word diversity. By simplifying we are catering to the stupid and lazy. Where the hell has the challenge gone? I took an 8th grade math test from the 1800's and was shocked at how much lower the standards are now (btw, I flunked it. I had no idea how many pounds of apples are in a bushel vs. a peck.)
In the article they cited that the children are a reason why they are thinking of changing it. Excuse me? Obviously we all here learned it, which must mean it wasn't too hard.

I think American language (at least) is lovely the way it is. I think it is fun. I think it is strongly representative of the diversity of the cultures here and I wouldn't want to strip that way by further bastardizing it.

A friend from India told me that there are several words for the male members of a family but none for sister, a phrase for description is needed. In Spanish it will often take 3 words to say something I can say in English in one.

People want to harp on spelling? I think it is a pretty damn easy language compared to many out there and perhaps they should go back to grade school and get off their lazy bums. smile


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted: Written by: TinklePants


Welsh is a phonetic language too biggrin



and that looks even harder than english ubblol

can only be said with a mouth full of beer and gobstoppers biggrin

and spelling it is pretty hard..... rolleyes


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Learning welsh is much easier when you learn it from a young age.

It's the mutations that bugger me up...

 Written by: an online welsh lexicon

Why Mutations?
Although mutations seem completely unnatural to English speakers, there is a little bit of logic behind some of them. For instance, when some American speakers think they're saying "in Colorado", what they're actually saying sounds more like "ingkolorado." In the Welsh phrase "yng Ngholorado", the mutation from "C" to "Ngh" simply approximates the spoken phrase.

(And if you're reading this and mumbling "yng Ngholorado" to yourself, trying to hear what it sounds like, remember that "yng" sounds like English "ung", not "ing". There, that's better.)



biggrin


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:if thats the case why does everybody call me mincey / minsea instead of monkey coz my names welsh wink

damn even a few of you welsh speakers called me minky ubblol


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:thats what it said dummy - yng pronounced ung not ing. Dylan is pronounced Dulan not dilan, mynci pronounced munci not minki biggrin

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:i thought it was "minki", and if i ever happen to meet you thats what i'll call you regardless smile

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Tabt
Tabt

I Doubt, Therefore I Might Be
Location: Horsham
Member Since: 2nd May 2006
Total posts: 1007
Posted:Wow, I cant believe people are even considering this. eek

The English language is a work of art. It has formed over centuries and has had influence from a lot of countries.

Its base is Germanic (we still have German words in our vocabulary such as abseil and noodle).

We have a large amount of Latin words and a whole myriad of Greek words (such as sarcasm, skeleton and strategy)

Then of course there are French (blonde, cuisine, risqu), Spanish (alligator, key, potato), and Indian (Juggernaut, pyjamas, shampoo and bungalow).

I think what i am trying to say is that butchering the language may (and i say MAY) make it easier to learn but it would ruin its history and what makes it beautiful.

English words and grammar are what make it hard to learn, spelling words phonetically wont make it easier because it would discard what makes words relate to each other, their spelling.

And also as rouge said, there are so many accents and dialects that Im sure it would be impossible for anyone to read.

I have worked with kids and it is hard enough to read what they have written, but there is no real pattern to it. Each child writes their own version of how they believe a word to be spelled.

Reading is what is called an 'Automatic process'. When we look at a word we cant help but read it, this is because we have done it so many times it becomes a subconscious activity. You look at a group of symbols and know what they mean to everybody.

However, if everyone were to write phonetically it would be more of a conscious effort, i had great difficulty reading the phonetic passages in that article.

Reading a childs work when they speak with an accent is an almost impossible task.

Then, of course there is the deciding to make phonetic spellings standardised...and who exactly does that help? The very few people who speak with that particular accent? Disregarding those who speak the same language but who come from a few cities over?


Imagine how difficult it would be for a child who only writes and reads phonetically to study Shakespeare at school? Or literacy in any other form. They would have to re-print everything into phonetics.... OUTRAGEOUS!! ubblol

I agree with astar2... how long before we dont need thesauruses. We wont need poetry or novels, and our vocabulary would consist of only 42 words.
Doubleplus BAD!


Owner of Dragosani's right side.

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted: Written by: Rouge Dragon


I don't recognise some of those words! Some I can recognise, but others I had no idea the spelling had even changed! like, "mold" is that "mould"? like the green stuff?



mold = a dish shaped device used for creaing replicas i.e jelly mold

mould = a fungal or bacterial growth or culture,

the spelling of these words differentiates the meanings


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: FreyaJ



The English language is a work of art. It has formed over centuries and has had influence from a lot of countries.




English spelling, is also, from a viewpoint of consistency, sense and logic; an abomination.

In England a substantial portion of the population can read only partially, or not at all- this is surely not helped by the fact that our rules of spelling are full of inconsistencies, exceptions and counter-exceptions.

simplified spelling systems, of which their are various types, not all of which are phonetic in the fullest sense, several of which are simply systems of spelling that are consistent, logical- that basically follow solid rules and make sense.

Current spelling is OK for those of us fortunate enough to have learnt it well (despite the fact that it's rules are highly inconsistent) but not so good for that portion of the population that either didn't, or couldn't.

And I agree that, on first seeing a passage of simplified spelling, that it looks silly and ugly. But then I think of a scenario where, say in 100 years time, a future classroom of children brought up on a system of spelling with coherent rules; study passages of old-style English spelling.

To them, simplified spelling looks completely normal, certainly the class has reaped the benefits because the vast majority have no problems with spelling (because it follows consistent rules).

To them, it is the old form of spelling that looks silly and ugly, especially when they are taught that a high portion of adults, back then, couid not read or write their own language.

I would ask anyone who looks at simplified spelling and sees only ugliness, to reflect on that scenario.

We get accustomed to what we know, to what we are brought up with- history is littered with examples of that which is established and accepted, persisting despite the fact that it is divisive and excluding.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: Mynci


 Written by: Rouge Dragon


I don't recognise some of those words! Some I can recognise, but others I had no idea the spelling had even changed! like, "mold" is that "mould"? like the green stuff?



mold = a dish shaped device used for creaing replicas i.e jelly mold

mould = a fungal or bacterial growth or culture,

the spelling of these words differentiates the meanings



According to my dictionary, 'mould' means both a growth and a shaping container; and that 'mold' is simply an alternate spelling of 'mould'.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Tabt
Tabt

I Doubt, Therefore I Might Be
Location: Horsham
Member Since: 2nd May 2006
Total posts: 1007
Posted:
The aesthetics of the language are not the only reason to keep it the way it is.

I think that there would be a lot of confusion between words that sound the same, i agree that context would help in such situations but not always.

I also agree that in the future, if phonetic English were the standard, they would probably look on what we have now as idiotic. But that would be after the creases have been ironed out and there is standard and form to the idea, which could take a long time.

It is also impossible from a legal point of view. With phonetics there would be so many loopholes and potential misunderstandings

I still find it horrendous though, but i guess in just used to things the way they are. I cant imagine using farthings and ha'pennys in the old money system, decimal systems make more sense to me. At the time though it was frowned upon.

Would you expect a beginner to learn the weave on their first go?...of course not.

But people still get aggravated when they cant do something quickly. These days life is so convenient.
People give up on literacy too quickly.

...meh. I have too much going on in my head to from a reasonable argument right now.


Owner of Dragosani's right side.

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