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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:This article was sent to me.

http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,887200,00.html


It's really funny. But when you think about it, Denny's already caters to stoners. 24 hour junk food, low-key lighting, trippy bright decor, selling little toys and stuff...

They're not stupid. They know their market.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:I am both open to and capable of thinking around, alongside and beyond what we are told is the law.

Following blindly is as bad as breaking.

i.e the people who let the bully pick on the poor scrawny kid are as bad as the bully, if not worse, as they believe themselves (as non-bullies) to be morally superior and less to blame.

Think about that.

[ 09. February 2003, 07:13: Message edited by: fluffy napalm fairy ]


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Is the law a bully?

Or are you just scared of the biggest kid on the playground because you dont know him?


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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BlackFireJack
member
Location: Bergen , Norway
Member Since: 16th Dec 2002
Total posts: 167
Posted:quote:Originally posted by fluffy napalm fairy:
Must I rebel against everything to give me a sense of purpose? Was I not taught that breaking the law was wrong?
See....I smoke weed...I have done about every drug except heroin (thank god I have stayed away from smack))....I drive my car like a monkey with a license....I breake the law every single day...
(used to break in to cars as a kid (12-14 yr. of age))..
But I still think of my self as a man of morals cause I have respect for human life...breaking the law is for me a every day thing....If I deal some weed, or whatever, I dont feel like a rebel ....I feel a bit richer but thats all....see....alot of the unlawfull acts in this world is a 'shotcut in life' and not a moral statement....
And the law....I dont live by the law but by how I want to live....sometimes those things doesent agree ....
Laws and Trends.....I dont care for it......to busy doing my own thing but not ignorant enough to be aware of the consequences of breaking them both....

And about smoking weed being a 'trend'....
come on! it's one of the tings thats allways there....half the world smoke weed........

I'm no angel
but who wanna be one

Peace


I like Fire.. :)

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund:
Is the law a bully?I dunno, Ray. How about that R.A.V.E. act? It never passed, but most of its bad parts have been included in a new piece of legislation that is bound to pass.

I think that this country is having a big problem with the government making way too many laws about what people are doing in their own homes.

Now, for the record, I don't care what you are doing in your home. The instant you get in a car, I want you sober. You drive any other way and as far as I'm concerned, you're a murderer waiting to happen. If you're on drugs and you need to get somewhere, you can walk, take the bus or the subway, call a taxi, bike even, but don't even dream of driving.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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poiaholic22
member

Member Since: 22nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 531
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund:

Killing is not murder in war by definition of the law. Keep believing that.

quote: Originally posted by Lightning=MikeGinny

I think that this country is having a big problem with the government making way too many laws about what people are doing in their own homes Especially with so many other countries backing away from the traditional stance on drug abuse.Read an article recently about the number of European nations that have begun decriminalizing marijauna,even if in only small steps.Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

[ 10. February 2003, 00:02: Message edited by: poiaholic22 ]


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JeStEr
enthusiast
Location: Melbourne Australia
Member Since: 20th Jul 2001
Total posts: 214
Posted:Jackelero: I was almost going to quote a hole heap of the stuff bill hicks has said about drugs but you've done 1 of the best parts for me

Bill Hicks: I'm gonna extend the theory to our generation now so that it's more applicable, the musicians today who donb't do drugs and in fact speak out against it, boy they suck, balless, souless, spiritless, corporate little b!thches.

Pot is a better drug than Alchohol fact: and I'll prove it to you, say you're at a ball gamme/concert - someones really violent aggressive and obnoxious, are they drunk or are they smoking pot? drunk drunk drunk
The one and only correct answer, tell em what they've won John, I have never seen people on pot get into a fight; because it is f**cking impossible

Drunk: hey buddy (agressivly)
Stoner: hey what?
........................
End of argument!

And as far as this debate goes, this is the last time I'm going to post in this thread because it could continue and probaly will amongst certain factions untill the cows not only come home but fall asleep and watch their lives drift by.

Read, contemplate and understand my sig, it says the world about oppinions: - which will always differ from person 2 person.



Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:One word, Ray: Metaphor.

And FYI I have taken much time to understand, get to know and fully appreciate the meanings, rules and reasons behind the laws surrounding this issue and I have made an educated decision based on both my own morals and undisputable facts connected with the use, misuse and legalisation of cannibis. If you opened your eyes you would see that many governments are coming round to the same way of thinking as Holland in that pot is far, far less harmful than many other legal drugs and should be treated as such, in realization that the laws have indeed been bullies and that the bullies are slowly but surely being wrong.

quote:Or are you just scared of the biggest kid on the playground because you dont know him? -originally posted by Raymund


The only person I can see being 'scared' of something they don't know is you, and throughout this thread you have illustrated this in all it's entirity.

[ 10. February 2003, 04:28: Message edited by: fluffy napalm fairy ]


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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BlackFireJack
member
Location: Bergen , Norway
Member Since: 16th Dec 2002
Total posts: 167
Posted:Hey JeStEr........
I didn't know who said that....I just copied it from the Tool album 'nema'....
Bill Hicks yeah? thanks for the tip ....I'll look for his other work...
passing the spliff


I like Fire.. :)

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:<Sarcasim>
Ohh yes, I am afraid of Pot, sombody help me please. I am shitting myself in fear.
</Sarcasim>

Sorry, not afraid.

Yes I do know that some Europian countries are leaglising pot. Wow congrats. Who cares? Well if you can smoke pot in country A leagly but not in country B and yet you live in country B are you not wrong?

Just because people can murder in Somalia with out fear from breaking the law does that mean that we should start pettioning for that in the US or England?

True pot and murder are apples and oranges but all is good, its a metaphor.


Sombody may not fight while they are high, but boy some people can get pretty damn parrinoid when they are dealing. True 90% might not deal but that 10% sure could reak some havok.

Poiaholic22, by definition of law I am right, defining with morals, that is another topic.


Mike, yes the R.A.V.E Act idea is wrong, punnishing someone for having anything to do with an event where some arse brings drugs is just plain wrong. Forcing Clubs and Events to take some responsibility for what happens at their gatherings is not.

I mean it is like fining Coors because some ass brought a joint into the super bowl... now that is retarded.


The problem is Mike, is that do you really think clearly when your intoxicated? Some do, some dont, some dont care. At that point we begin to have problems. Warnings and fines dont seem to do anything and just throwing away the laws isnt the answer eather. Perhaps stricter penalties are?


Jackelero, your morals are different from mine.
In my opinion you dont seem to have too many nor do you seem to care about anothers life. Thats just me, dont take it personally.

And to use something I am sure most of our parents have said at one point in time or another... if half the world jumped off a bridge wouuld you do it too? Okay so maybe none of our folks said that but you get the picture!


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ray, I know this is a side issue, but ummmm, I'm curious.

When and how did Jesus replaced the Ten Commandments with just two?. Wot happened to the other eight?

To say the bible is a bit dodgy would be an understatement, but I have always held a strong belief in the Ten Commandments. Now you tell me they've been superseded, gone. I can't believe that's true.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund:
The problem is Mike, is that do you really think clearly when your intoxicated? Some do, some dont, some dont care. At that point we begin to have problems. Warnings and fines dont seem to do anything and just throwing away the laws isnt the answer eather. Perhaps stricter penalties are? Ray, my view is that if you make the decision to get so arsed-up that you lose all judgement and choose to operate a motor vehicle, then you get to deal with the consequences.

Like I say, attempted murder, as far as I'm concerned.

Drunk driving has drastically decreased these last few decades with the wide spread of MADD's message. I say make drugs legal and turn MADD in to CFSD, "Citizens For Sober Driving." And if you drive any way other than sober, then you face the consequences.

EDIT: a point I forgot to make is that improving public transportation in our cities by making networks more expansive, expanding hours of service, and building new transit systems will help to discourage drunk and drugged driving. It really sucks that if I want to get two miles to my co-op, I have to drive because there is no public transportation that serves both my house and the co-op.

[ 10. February 2003, 16:08: Message edited by: Lightning=MikeGinny ]


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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poiaholic22
member

Member Since: 22nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 531
Posted:Raymund what is your definition of stricter laws?

We already know that imprisonment only makes people worse than when they went in and the threat of imprisonment is not much of a deterrent.Even rehabilitation doesn't work in most cases unless the person really wants to get clean.Look at Robert Downey Jr.It doesn't matter how many times they bust that a$$hole he still goes and does it again.So what I'm really saying is what are your suggestions?

I even now people who got booted from the military for doing drugs.Now if a dishonorable discharge is not enough to keep you from doing drugs illegally than what is?Bear in mind we still have to protect the Constitution when we make these stiffer penalties.

I think both sides here have made some valid points and in a lot of cases I am finding myself agreeing with Raymund.This is not a case of is it right or wrong to do drugs.That is a "to each there own" subject.It is more about is it right or wrong to break the law.If we don't agree with a law than we need to work to get it changed.

On that note though who says that people aren't already trying to?I know a lot of people didn't agree with the R.A.V.E. Act but there was also a lot of people who did something about it (i.e. protested in D.C.).I'll admit I'm one of those people who doesn't stand up often enough about my convictions but this subject isn't really a big deal to me because I don't do drugs of any kind.

The biggest problem with new laws is that they infringe on the rights of people who don't do drugs as well as those that do.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I dont know the exact chapter and verse right off, but I will look it up tonight. Nobody flat out said to forget the 10 commandments and follow these two. If you were to simplify the 10 commandments into just two, it would be, Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, body and streangth and Love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was and that was his answer.

Stone, that article had absolutly 0 scriptures in it. How would someone know if Joshua said that without scripture refference? If there was scripture reference, was it quoted in context? There is alot to question with that article.


Poiaholic22, you do not want to know what my reccomendations are. They arnt nice, lets just say that cruel and unusual has nothing on me.

Mike, alot of the time and I am sure you know this, the drunk driver goes to jail while the famly goes into the body bags. The consiquences are higher for the people who arnt drinking rather than for the drunk. I agree with you it should be seen as attempted murder.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ray, if nobody said flat out to forget the 10 commandments, and follow these two then why say or infer it? I know that will sound picky, but the simplification dilutes and changes the original context.

So now to contradict myself. The point in the documentary was that many of the scriptures could not be supported with archeological evidence. Now call me nave, but I have always thought that the bible was accurate, because of supporting archeological evidence.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Well not everything is provable. I am sure you will never find Adam and Eve's bed! I mean some things wont be proven, but some are. It is a faith. Just like they will never find exactly how the Pyramids were built, they may find things that support a theory, but I doubt they will ever find an exact blueprint and a work request.

Some things are just faith based.

Somethings in the Bible may not be provable, but you need to make your own choice, dont let somebody with an article tell you that something is right or wrong, make your own choice follow your heart. After all, you heart will never lie to you.


As far as the Greatest Commandment goes read Matthew chapter 22 verse 34-40

An interesting note, in verse 40 Jesus says "All the law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:quote:but you need to make your own choice, dont let somebody with an article tell you that something is right or wrong, make your own choice follow your heart. After all, you heart will never lie to you.
Ray. You have just obliterated your argument. My heart does not lie to me and I make my own choices, not letting some upstart american tell me what is right and what is wrong.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I was to take a leaf out of your book and be rediculously argumentative I would use this clear statement by you to bring in another incomparable extreme to prove your self-contradiction again.

You said quote: Just because people can murder in Somalia with out fear from breaking the law does that mean that we should start pettioning for that in the US or England?
Coupled with your opinions on everyone being free to make the choice they want (quoted first) does this mean that the murderer in Somalia, in England or in the US is right because their heart tells them that they are? Hmmmmmm. If I were you I would have my opinions straight before I started trying to express them quite so forcefully.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fortunately I have decided that since you believe we should all make our own decisions - which are ultimately right by way of our hearts never lieing to us - then all the pot smokers in the world are right because their hearts tell them it's all good.

So further debate is unnecessary.

Anyone got another Rizla?


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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JeStEr
enthusiast
Location: Melbourne Australia
Member Since: 20th Jul 2001
Total posts: 214
Posted:Yep bill hicks it is.

Perhaps I should've said I won't post anymore in this thread except to add a few more bill hicks quotes and ruffle some more of raymunds feathers , you make it to easy

Bill hicks: Say you get into a car accident and you've been smoking pot; you're only going 4 miles an hour:......... bbrrrrrrrrrrrrr bang
Dude 1: shit we hit something!
Dude 2: forgot to open the garage door maaannnn!
Dude 1: we've gottta get the garage door open so dominos knows we're home!

Bill Hicks: I have not heard 1 reason why marijuana is against the law and I'm not talking about the reasons the goverment tells us, cos I think you know this, I hope you know this; all goverments are lying c**k-suckers, (cheers) I hope you know that, good.
I mean marijuana, it grows everywhere, to make marijuana against the law is like saying god made a mistake, it's like god on the 7th day looked down at his creation and said, 'there it is, my creation, perfect and holy in all ways, now I can rest.................................
(long silence); 'Oh my me, I've left f**king pot everywhere, I sould never have smoked that joint on the 3rd day, S#!t, if I leave pot everywhere it's going to give people the impression they're supposed to use it! Darn, now I have to create Republicans.'

Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law
Aleister Crowley

*Ponders whether to post some of bill hicks stuff regarding the 1st persian gulf war in the thread 'war on Iraq'*

Raymund, while I consider myself fairly good at seeing things from others perspectives, and I sort of can see where your coming from (despite my sig) you must realise that your views seemingly differ more than most; eg I find it easyer to relate to the other posters points of view than yours, don't take this personally.

Are you a sucker for punishment and heated debates?

stay cool and keep it light hearted all,


It is better to debate a question without settling it, than to settle a question without debating it. (forget who said it)



[ 11. February 2003, 02:43: Message edited by: JeStEr ]


Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i really like this quote

quote:Originally posted by Raymund:
you need to make your own choice, dont let somebody with an article tell you that something is right or wrong, make your own choice follow your heart. After all, you heart will never lie to you.ray; have you ever considered that the books of the bible are basically just articles too?

your comments there sound more like 'do what thou wilt...' rather than 'follow the rules set down in this here book'...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:oooooooo - I haven't been putting who my quotes are originally posted by. CAn't be bothered to go back and change them now. I guess whoever is reading this nowadays is following it too so it's all good.

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:I have been watching this thread and wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

I don't use narcotics or drink hardly at all anymore.
I used to do both, when I was in high school. For me, it was an escape. I found my reality at the time unsatisfying I suppose, so I would lose myself in things that altered my senses.

After awhile, I realized that I didn't really like doing that stuff either and so I stopped.

There was a girl I dated at the time who lived for getting stoned with her friends. That made things difficult because I wanted to spend time with her, talking or whatever, and she was wiggling her fingers in front of her face and giggling.

In my current situation, I get drug tested periodically, so I can't do them. In fact when I'm at a party and someone lights up, I either leave the room or stand with my head out in the window like a dog in a car. I won't get into trouble because of a positive test on something I didn't do.

People should be more aware of why they do what they do. As long as you are aware of the consequences of your actions and are able to make your own choices, you should still have that right.

BTW, I wanted to say one thing about debating. Keep the arguments impersonal, because just because someone has a different point of view doesn't make that person wrong.

Raph


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Wow, talk about quoting out of context.

Look *pretend I set all the laws in your country down in front of you* here is the law, follow it or dont follow it. I cant make you do either. It is right to follow the law, it is wrong to break the law.

Yes, I am an upstart American. Proud of it too.

You have free choice, but you must also reconise the consiquences for making the wrong choice.

The follow your heart bit was on matters of faith, not matters of the law. Try quoting in context next time.

In reply to the bill hicks quote, God also left poison ivy, should you go roll around in that just because it is there?


Coleman, on matters of faith make your own choice, on the matters of law do what it says.

Actually they are more like chapters in a history book and letters to varius people and groups of people.


Now that your all done quoting me out of context... NEXT! :


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I have to agree that such threads do tend to go round and round.

Raymund, God replaced the 10 commandments? Sorry dude, the verse you pulled doesn't cut it. I don't think God changed his mind and changed 'em??

Where did God say obey the laws of the land?

As far as I know God wasn't too political anywho.
What's this thread about again.
Hey wait a minute I'm stoned right now isn't that mad the way, you know....that I'm....eeerr....to stoned for this?? I'll be back tomorrow to edit this.
Have a nice day


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Well, think about it, if you follow the ten commandments then you are following those two listed in Matthew 22:34-40 and if you follow those two listed in Matthew then you are following the Ten Commandments.

Change was the wrong word, revise, simplify, consolidate. In a sence your doing the same thing.

However your right this thread was about pot.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:One thing that gets over looked when people talk about fads, is that we are really only looking at a narrow section of society. Unfashionable, ghetto type drugs like petrol sniffing, chroming etc. seem to get over looked.


So Ray, just in case you are bored. Matthew Chapter 22. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." There is a lot of truth in that answer, but I wouldn't confuse it with the Ten Commandments as such, because THE TEN are really the foundation that it all hangs off. Jeremiah c8, v8. Take your pick


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Six is one half of a dozen of another.

Meaning, like I said they are pretty much the same thing.

Anyhoo...

Petrole sniffing isnt really a drug perse.

It is in that use but petrole isnt an illeagle substance, I dont know if it is over looked or just classified different. None the less valid point.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Page: 123

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