Forums > Social Chat > Economics of Pot

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
Ray, the reason I used the example of Ice-Cream (a great example that shouldn't just be dismissed like that) is because both are not necessary to our survival and I don't think anyone here has said they are. I was trying to explain it in different terms (historically something also tabbood (sp?) by popular demand)

But the reason why we partake is not to be "Cool" as you seem to think but because it's nice (like Ice-cream) so why deny yourself something that harms nobody except yourself.

HOw can someone who's never had ice-cream tell you that it's gunna make you start eating nutella.

Ok I'm going a bit now so I'll leave it at that.

HAve a nice day

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
Deep Soul Sheep, does anybody love you? I mean really. If you killed yourself, would somebody cry? You didnt hurt anybod but yourself yet others were effected. An attitude like that one, you used, is a selfish attitude. You hurt more people than you know. However it would seem that you dont care what others think of you. Fuck them, I am the only one that matters. Hmm thats a nice thing to think.

Sex is how humans reproduce, modern developments excluded, it is nesisary for life. I understand what you mean though, not every person needs to partake of Ice-cream 24-7 to live.

Stone, your right, there is more than one gateway drug. However pot is just as big as tobacco and alcohol. For this instance I used pot as the example. Kinda in an attempt to keep things on topic... well sorta.

Personally I dont wear hemp. To me it looks more like the stuff potato sacks are made out of. An ichy corse fiber. Correct me if I am wrong but cotton is a bit more comfertable to wear.

When did I suggest to ban all things that give you a buzz?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeepSoulSheep:
why deny yourself something that harms nobody except yourself.


if that were true then i'd agree with you , but it's just not true ... unless you grow pot in your basement you have to buy it from dealers... and drug dealers are some of the worst paranoid psychotics on the face of the planet..

maybe the kid you get your drugs from isn't that bad but if you go high enough up the drug train you will run into murder, slavery, rape, intimidation, terrorism.. etc... and it's all well and good to say that it's not your fault but that money goes back to the ciminals who helped produce and ship it to your home town.
i have in the past had reasons to become friends with dealers, and the more profitable they become the more paranoid.. and i have watched a pretty good kid go from selling pot ( just weed, nothing else ) in the city of victoria BC... to becoming a nutcase who keeps a loaded gun by his bed and chair while shipping and dispensing pot in mega quantities...

the money you spend on drugs floats up.. the more illegal it is on the street , the worse the crim's get the higherup you go..

alcohol is bad and so is nicotine but at least they are taxed ( heavily ) and that money goes to help boost the healthcare system.. pot money goes to buy more pot and guns, and coke, and crime ..

bah! the only solution is let the government run the pot trafficking, and make the poor potheads pay for their habit....
( if cigarettes are 10$ a pack how much do you think the poor pothead will have to pay for weed when it's legal?)

oh and for the record. i don't smoke, or drink, or do drugs now .. but i do know what i'm talking about

thats right i look like an albino ape that has had a bad day.. go ahead say something stupid... i dare ya !

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
and some hemp is smother than silk and very comfortable, hemp is a viable replacment for wood ( paper ) and cotton ( cloth ) hell it can even be pressed into particle board and spun into the strongest natural ropes .. hemp and pot are not the bad things here .. it's the morons who believe they should get whatever they want, and be able to break the rules because they don't agree.. immature and childish.. but i suspect most pot users are under the agew of 30 ...

so don't blame the plant blame the morons who want to abuse the plant because they are too lazy to find a alternative to wasting their minds.

thats right i look like an albino ape that has had a bad day.. go ahead say something stupid... i dare ya !

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
Ray: why did you pick up poi?

Because you were curious? Or were you trying to fit in with other spinners?

I would imagine it would be it was because you were curious, not dying to fit in. I'd imagine you continue to do poi because it is enjoyable, not because you addicted to it or deperately need it.

Please realize that is probably exactly how most people got into weed. The fact that someone does smoke or has smoked weed doesn't mean that he/she is a mindless social follower who doesn't deserve your respect.

Ray, please know that, like you, I've never smoked weed, and I don't feel the need to. But that's just the way I feel. You can't judge other people who feel differently. To each, his/her own.

Please don't think I'm picking on your viewpoint...I just find it challenging to my own, and debate is interesting.

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
Yes people love me.
If I killed myself people would cry.
Relevance is lost on me though...
I am not suicidal.
How does my smoking affect others? (Ivan : I grow my own, end of argument) I don't plan on killing myself. I can only see the lung factor which I'll shrug off for now.

And NO I don't care what others think of me cause who is anyone but God to judge me?
I'm not the only one who matters but when it comes to an opinion do you really expect me to lose sleep because someone who is not more important than me dissapproves of how I spend my spare time? Remember that when you judge someone you are only judging them by what you deem normal. I honestly don't mean it as an insult but I think you guys are extrememly closed minded on this particlar subject.

I'd like to add that my original posts were intentionally silly (using ice-cream) because I didn't really want to get into this argument again. There is absolutely nothing in the world that can be said for me to convince you or for you to convince me. I promise you that any iota you think I'm wrong, I think your wrongererer.
Your right though Paddy, tis good to talk.

Have a nice day.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 5th Feb 2003

quote:

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pot is just as big as alcohol or tobacco...

---

no, no it's not. alcohol is a million times bigger than pot. i'm not going to try and pass judgement on tobacco b/c i am unsure. but pot is to alcohol what americans watching golf is to americans watching american football.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
well....I just like a smoke.....is tha' allright?
..and...well...I don't do any harm to anybody...so!

Posted: 5th Feb 2003

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepSoulSheep

"And NO I don't care what others think of me cause who is anyone but God to judge me?"

---

I think that sums it up right there.

I have never done drugs in my life,I don't smoke and only drink once in a blue moon.I do not condone drug use but in my opinion if that's what you want to do then so be it.Life is short and you shouldn't live it by anyone's rules but your own.

[ 06. February 2003, 12:03: Message edited by: poiaholic22 ]

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
Okay, you said that doing drugs only hurts yourself. If you were to kill youself (BTW I wasnt saying that you were scuicidal just using it as an example) you would only do damage to yourself, but it would effect more than just yourself. Just like drugs, they may only effect you physically, but your choices could effect more people than you know. That is the relivence.


Unfortunatly God isnt the only one that judges you. You get judged every day, not matter what you do, school, job, nothing. Every day you are judged on how you look and act. How you contribute to society and how you dont.

I wasnt trying to convince you of anything, just making my humorus post at the beginging relating stoners to N'SYNC wannabes! The second Dromepixie picked up the post it went to a different topic. I just enjoy a good debate


Paddy, I understand what you mean. I agree that just because you have tried drugs it doesnt mean that you are a mindless drone.

However like I said people judge others every day, it is odd how people only pick up on it when it they are the ones who do get judged, they dont always see it when they are the ones judging, and yes that applies to myself, in large quatities.

I picked up poi because I saw a friend spinning glowsticks at a club and was like "Thats cool teach me to do that!" Then I found out that Pozee was stationed at the same base I was and when I got back to Miramar I got in touch with him and spun fire for the first time.


Ivan, I really didnt know that about hemp. Can people be trusted to grow hemp (a low THC bareing plant, from what I am told) and not a high THC bareing plant?

I doubt that they could seen as how pot is mixed with corn and other tall green plants.

[ 06. February 2003, 12:15: Message edited by: Raymund ]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
Raymund I know all too well how much you like a debate.I do too maybe that is why I am constantly compelled to respond to you.

Anyway,you can kill yourself over-eating.You can kill yourself exercising too much.Or taking all these new wonder supplements that so many athletes use.You can kill yourself in a lot of ways that are normally good for you if you over do it.Does that mean you shouldn't do them either.There are people who are addicted to food.

Everything in moderation.I forget who posted it but it is not the drugs that are the problem but the idiots who do it for the wrong reasons and without control.

Metaphorically speaking but do you judge the book by its cover?Just because someone does drugs or drinks casually does that make them a bad person?Or should I say because someone doesn't drink or do drugs does that make them a good person.

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
If I thought like that then I would truly be nieve.

Is it your goal to turn this into a pissing contest? Maybe you just wish to turn it personal.

I think recreational use of drugs is wrong, it is illeagle and if your cought you should be punished in a manner that is fair and in the accordance with the laws. If you dont like this, you can start legislation to get the laws changed. Sucking on a join is not starting legislation, its asking to get put in jail.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 5th Feb 2003
Ray, every day, I make decisions that will ultimately harm someone. I choose to drive somewhere rather than walk, thus contributing to pollution or putting someone at the risk of my mowing them down at a crosswalk because I didn't see them.

I choose to eat a banana that was doubtless picked by some poor slave working on a plantation in Central America (Chocolate and Banannas are the two huge plantation crops that are really brutal industries), thus supporting his owners and furthering his bondage.

I chose to eat a chocolate chip cookie tonight, thus ever so slightly increasing my risk that I'll suffer some health consequence from it and thus ever so slightly add to the rising cost of healthcare in this country.

Now...it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the world is interconnected that that I can't sneeze without harming something. But there does have to come a point where we decide that what people do behind their own doors should be their business.

It still boggles my mind that tobacco is legal while pot isn't. Not that I support the illegalization of tobacco. My heavens, that would make the crack epidemic look like a run on Dairy Queen! But I am saying that this country preoccupies itself waaay too much with what people are doing behind closed doors, which is one reason why I am seriously considering finding another country to call home.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
This article is doesnt have much to do with the current topic but it is a drug related tragidy.

Check it

this is all that was said

[ 06. February 2003, 20:13: Message edited by: Raymund ]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
btw, marijuana that is smokable and hemp that is usable do not grow at all well in the same types of soil. so actually, hiding pot in things like corn is a million times more productive than hiding it in Hemp. Hemp really was made illegal for economic (tree & cotton) reasons.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
I checked out the first link.- Oh my God who is stupider the idiot doing that or the people egging him on. Wow darwin at his best that dude is 21. 21 has he no sense at all?
I can't see the second one for some reason.

Anyway yea I think it's great there's people who disagree, tis like a mini-diarama(sp?) of the world here.

I like the closed door thing. Tis pretty much what I'm trying to say. What happens in your home should be cool as long as you hurt nobody else.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
Hmm the link worked fine for me. Try right clicking and selecting open in new window. In all actually all it is is the log of what was said.

There are some terrible things that happen when people abuse drugs, perscription or not.

That happend in that guys home, he only killed himself, but more people were effected than the people egging him on thought.

I hope yall are all smart enough not to do stupid shit like that.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
Ray

Can I deduce from this anti-chemical talk that you never drink?

Not everyone who drinks is an alcohilic.
Not everyone who smokes is an extreme addict.
You seem to be thinking of only the extreme cases. If this is so then you should be aware how many thousands more people die/are made homeless/kill because of alcohol than because of pot.

Just cos you like to do something does not mean it is an addiction. See Ice cream, drinking, poi, painting, eating chips...etc...

Not everyone starts doing something to fit in - I object strongly to that statement on the last page.

What is wrong with liking the effects of something? I like the effects of sex ( ), of chocolate, of weed, of HoP. Tis all. Not a sinister as some of us seem to think.

It is very well you not smoking because you do not want to. I do not sleep with people of the same sex because I don't want to. But I don't say that everyone who does is wrong.....I do not see why you take this line. It greatly saddens me that someone as nice and friendly and seeminly intelligent as you can be so completely and unforgivably closed minded.

Just let it go. Each to their own and all the rest......

Geologists do it in the dirt................

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
hey, have all of you actually read the Guardian article this thread was originally started for?
I can see exactly what Raymund was saying...it's funny that pot smokers and the act of pot smoking is now an "official" trend.
I think that's what he found amusing... (possibly also that the article was written by a British journo in a typically sensationalist British way, I find this amusing too).
As for the rest of the debate...yaddayaddayadda....
Each to his own etc...
And personally I think most goverments would legalise it just as soon as they could tax it.
Also, my mate Dimitri just came up with a great argument....
What would the world be like without drugs? No Hendrix, Van Gogh, Picasso, Warhol, Huxley, Winston Churchill (a drunk, sir!), Bill Clinton (yeah right Bill), Doyle (Sherlock holmes was a pipe head, but he still got the baddie!), Colridge, Pink Floyd, Cypress Hill, BOB MARLEY(could you imagine?!?!?!?!), ... the list goes on!
Raymund....can you find an artist who DEFINITELY doesn't do drugs (we want test results too!)....
No way! We just did a search on the web...here's the definitive list!
ps check out what Chrissie Hynd says...so true!
<---is that a joint?

[ 07. February 2003, 03:33: Message edited by: Knoxious ]

Posted: 7th Feb 2003
Should I start with whole bands or just name people?

Hmm athletes; Jordan, Lemiux(sp) Jagar,

Geeks; Gates

whole bands; Audio Adreniline, Creed, Linkin Park

Do you really need me to go on?


FNF, your skills at deduction are a bit off. I am not anti all chemicals. I am anti-recreational use of illeagle narcotics. Your very right like I have said many times before, just because you tried it once doesnt mean that your addicted, but you start on that path and yes this includes alcohol.

Maybe it doesnt apply to everyone, maybe somewhere deep in their subconscience it does.

The point I made at the begining was that it has become a trend like pop music.

Now if you do something that is against the law you are wrong. If you break the rules your wrong, were you not tought that? Or must you rebell against everything to give you a sence of purpose.

Its a debate FNF, people ask questions I respond. If nobody asks questions the post goes away untill someone come up with another question.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
Hey, Ray apologies for putting words in you mouth about banning stuff. Still think that’s what you leading up to though

quote:

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Now if you do something that is against the law you are wrong

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Narr, if you do something that is against the law. You do something against the law. That does not necessarily mean it's wrong, just means it’s against the law.

The UN debate on international law about the US being permitted to undertake unilateral military action against Iraq is a good example. Perhaps not a relevant example in a debate about pot, but interesting

One of the precedents they (Bush et al) are trying to use to justify the invasion of Iraq is the case where NATO forces went in to Kosovo, to stop the widespread ethnic cleansing, without the authority of the Security Council. There was a lot of debate about the legality of that action. Now, the consensus from international community was that that action was legitimate, albeit not legal (Devika Hovell) Check out the transcript ABC TV Lateline

Just keeping the post going

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
Raymund - So if I live in Holland then I'm exempt from your argument?
Is your argument based on moral issues or a legal issues?

If it's moral then simply - one person's morals cannot be said to be better (or worse) than anothers....each to their own!

If it's a legal issue, then it's worth remembering that law evolves with society. The UK is a great example where social momentum is bringing across changes in these drug laws. There's also the ACT and South Australia where decrimilisation is already in effect.

Also as we've heard already, some of these laws were forced in not for the benifit of society as a whole, but to maximise the profits of certain companies and/or industries.

Fair call, not ALL artists, bands etc.. are drug users, but...

Creed? Um....check this out

Linkin Park? Check the one law he'd change - 2nd to bottom

Audio Adrenalin? C'mon! They're a self confessed straight-edge (Christian) band!....still want to see drugs tests though!

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
If he wishes to change the law that is fine, I think the law should be changed because of all the money that would be made from taxing it.

Also the creed page didnt load, could be the Gov. firewall, they block wierd sites hehe.

I know Scott, the lead singer in Creed had a rough past I dont know for sure about his current standerds but I could have sworn I heard something about a no drug policy for him and the band.

Whats wrong with listing bands that you know are not druggies? I mean that was what I was asked to do.


If you break the law then you deserve to be punished, if you dont get cought ohh well... keep doing it and they will catch you eventually.

I dont agree with some peoples morals, I dont bash them because of them.


It is wrong to break the law. That is why you get punished. You did something wrong. Do I need to break it down any farther or do you understand now?

No worries about putting words in my mouth, it has happend before and I just spit them out Though I actually wasnt leading up to it.

Not all the laws were forced into being by economical statures.

Cant Heroin kill you the first time you shoot up, or is that a differnt drug? I am no expert and really am not sure if I listed the right drug or even spelled it right hehe.

Anyhoo, the UN thing would go good in the Iraq thread, I suggest putting it there to keep this somewhat on topic.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 6th Feb 2003
Raymund I never meant to give the impression I'm trying to make things personal and actually enjoy debating with you.If everyone always agrees with you than how do you grow?You add a point of view that is often times opposite of mine but I can't understand that point of view if it isn't presented to me.If you weren't here adding the anti drug POV than this thread would have been forgotten by now.Do you understand what I am getting at?

To all those who think that bands that are 100% straight edge don't exist you should look into the hardcore punk scene.There is a list probably a mile long of punk bands who are anti-drugs and drinking.To name a few-
Minor Threat
Anti-Flag
Fugazi
and probably a couple hundred more I've never heard of.Just because Chester from Linkin Park wants to legalize weed doesn't mean he does it himself.I don't smoke weed and never have but I would vote in favor of legalizing marijauna. There are a lot of people in prison for minor drug offenses who would greatly benefit from decriminalization.BTW Ray the Creed link was fan reactions to Scott Stapp being too drunk to even stand up at a show much less perform.

I was able to download both of the links about the prescription pill idiot.I shouldn't even call him an idiot because that is an insult to idiots.I wouldn't call what he did a tragedy.For everything you do in your life there are consequences and repercussions.Whether it be from the law or from nature you pay the price for your actions.In my opinion he got what he deserved.He knew what he was doing.

ALL DRUGS can kill you after only a single use.From what I have been led to believe by the medical world is that prior to your first experience with whatever drug it may be you are using,there is no way to tell how your body will react to the drug.Once again Action-Reaction.

Funny you should mention the drug culture being a part of pop-culture.I remember hanging out one night with a friend after leaving a club and pondering with her when it became more socially acceptable to be a druggie than to not be one.The way some people react to me being for the most part straight-edge is at times amazing.They act like I'm from another planet.

To clarify my position on all things,I try to be as impartial as possible.If you can not see things from the middle than how can you ever benefit from opposing points of view?

Posted: 7th Feb 2003
Must I rebel against everything to give me a sense of purpose? Was I not taught that breaking the law was wrong?

I was, in fact, taught moral boundaries as opposed to state imposed ones. This means that I abide by hundreds and thousands of laws - for example not drinking and driving, not killing people etc.....(these are the extremes: for your information I am not a burgler, I did not have underage sex, I don't shoplift....) My occasional pot smoking has nothing to do with rebelling,I just like it. It gives me no rush to break the law - just a happy stoned feeling when I am with a few choice friends.

I was also taught not to be quite so anally judgemental and to embrace people with different ideas and different views - and not to waste time with closed-minded,blinkered and self-riteous people.

It's wrong to break the law

Ideally, if the law was just, that would be the case.

In this world Ray, the law is so corrupt that by following it to the word you can quite often be far more wrong that right. The main issue with weed being illegal is that we can grow it ourselves and the government cannot tax it. It is less damaging than drugs which are legal such as alcohol and smoking, yet it is classed illegal because the government can't make money from it.

And as Knoxious said - In Holland weed is far more acceptable than alcohol. This is not for no reason. Weigh up the arguments, the figures and the facts and you'll see why.

[ 07. February 2003, 22:27: Message edited by: fluffy napalm fairy ]

Geologists do it in the dirt................

Posted: 7th Feb 2003
Well put FNF. Ray, not all laws are good. Take a look at a few of these...

Weird laws

Don't worry, be happy...

Posted: 7th Feb 2003
Nice one tadpole .
Yea I'm definitely gunna put my foot down on what the law says is right is right. Hell no. We should never accept what we are told as being right or wrong to be so. We should always question and decide for ourselves. Free from the bias of the person who told you in the first place. That's why I'll try most things once.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 7th Feb 2003
I dont want to harp on anyones moral beliefs, but how can you be tought to have a moral code when being tought not to break the law isnt part of it. It baffles me. It is like saying if it feels good, do it. Well if everyone lived like that I am sure some psyco would go around killing people because it felt good. You must have a moral set of rules to follow and you must have a leagle set. They work hand in hand to keep people safe, to keep peoples possesions safe and to push those who wish to break them. You cant have a PB&J sandwich with out the PB. If you did it would just be a Jelly sandwich.

There are some stupid laws, no kidding. The law can be changed, but it doesnt mean that it is alright to break the law.

Choose for yourself what is right and wrong, but if you break the law then prepare for you to get punished according to the law. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and move on.


The govenment can put tax on the sale of weed and seeds. They can also make you get a permit to grow weed in any quantity and fine you heavily if you dont get the permit. There are many many ways to make money by leaglising weed.

FNF if you think I am

quote:

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closed-minded,blinkered and self-riteous

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person then dont waste your time with me. Just so that you know, thinking that someone is closed-minded, blinkerd and self-riteous, just because they think that breaking the law is wrong and that if someone did break the law then they deserve to get punishd, then you my friend are closed-minded, blinkerd and self-riteous.

Look at things through my point of viwe for one second before you start calling me any of the above.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 8th Feb 2003
I don't think morality, law and whether something feels good are related at all.

I'm not even going to address the if something feels good then do it, lets run around killing people idea cause that and this are chalk and cheese, laughable really.

I'm guessing morals would tend to be based mostly of religious belief and have evolved and grown over time depending on what our parents or people who taught us what we believe in interpretted them. For example in Christianity it is not one of the 10 commandmends to obey the law.

This is an example of how law can be sepereated from whether something is right or wrong. So I'd suggest that you as a christian(i think you are) should consider something like murder wrong because it against Gods law not the countries law.

I could be mistaken but I think there's a tribe of fisherman in Zimbabwe/Zambia who's allowed to smoke weed cause it's part of they're religion or something. So in that case even the government is admitting, who are we tell these people their beliefs are wrong. For the rest of the country it is illegal though.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 8th Feb 2003
Well... perhaps Christianity was not the best example seen as how Jesus replaced the Ten Commandments with just two. Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, body and streangth and love your neighbor as yourself.

Also God said to obey the laws of the land.

So, like I said, not the best example.


With your latest example you enter into a whole new debate. Is it right or wrong for the law to make it illeagle for a religion to use narcotics in its cerimonies? I know that some Native American cultures use certain narcotics but are only allowed to use them as part of an actual cerimony. They are also prohibited from taking those narcotics off the reservation.

It all comes down to your specific religion and your own interpritation of that religion.

For example, is killing someone in battle loving my neighbor as myself? No it is not murder becuase it is sanctioned by the state. Killing is not murder in war by definition of the law.

When push comes to shove it is all how you interprite your own beliefs.

I feel that if I truly love my neighbors that I would protect them from harm and if that means I must kill another then so be it. It is a catch 22 because both are truly my neighbors.

Like I said a whole different debate.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"