Forums > Social Chat > should children always be told the truth?

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Devilsarmy
Devilsarmy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Nuneaton
Member Since: 14th Oct 2005
Total posts: 2984
Posted:hey right i found alot of stuff out then thought..... would have been nice if i was told the truth...does that mean children should or am i just weird?

loves all

Devilsarmy
xxx hug hug hug xxx


Actually back on HoP guys ...

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:There's a question of what's "lying" to a child and what's just messing with a child's head. Lying to a child is damaging. Messing with their heads is simply a perk of being an adult. biggrin

And THAT is why if you're in the Bronx and you see little kids walking around digging in their ears, you know they're my patients. It's because I've been busy pulling coins out of their ears and they want to know if they can find more! ubblol


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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wonderloey
wonderloey

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Member Since: 21st Feb 2006
Total posts: 255
Posted: Written by: BEZERKER


I kind of get frustrated when people spout the line about Santa being a marketing tool to jip families out of their fortune.

Always puzzled at some people's bitterness and feelings of betrayal over being told Santa was real. It's a lark for goodness' sake. What good is the naievety of youth if not to experience some magic? If you can't explain WHY these things were done (IE to add to the fun of the occasion) then you must be nuts.




I suppose it depends in what other meaning (other than the meaning spouted by the commercial Christmas machine) you give to folkloric heros like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. By giving these characters a personality closer to their original pagan roots, you give them more meaning. Effectively, you are encouraging the magic playground of imagination that seems to be increasingly threatened by today's mass culture.

However, kids also need some kind of definition between what is real and what isn't. Many adults encourage childhood fantasy as reality, only to be horrified when their children feel betrayed by the revelation.

I'd rather shoot straight and be honest. Tell my (as yet unborn) kids the truth, keeping in mind what they can deal with... Give them food for imagination but help them deal with the definition between fiction and fact.


"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman

Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:What kind of lies are you referring to devilsarmy?

I could say my parents lied to me about lots of stuff too, I believed in the tooth fairy and santa claus. Finding out its not real is just a part of growing up i think. I wasnt particularly upset when I found out it wasnt true, i mean how CAN santa exist when you see hundreds of santas dressed up at Christmas?! (I used to think alot as a kid).

I could help you a lot better if i knew what sorta thing you were referring to.

If for example your mum said "the tooth fairy IS real god dammit!" i'd say that was your mum being a bit loopy.

If however she'd been lying about your biology and who your real dad is, I'd say that was pretty serious. hug


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Flamez
Flamez

member
Location: Cape Town The Mother City
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2006
Total posts: 56
Posted:Hi, mabey its a bit of topic, but when i am a mother, i would tell my child there is no such thing as santa... anymore, let me explain:

Saint Nicholas was born in the Middle East about 350 miles northwest of Bethlehem in the fourth century. He grew up to become the bishop of Myra (now Kale), his hometown, Lycia, near the coast of what is now Turkey. Legends tell of his love for children, his kindness and the miracles he brought about.

Perhaps the most famous story of all tells how he helped three unfortunate young sisters who all had suitors but had no dowries because their father, a poor nobleman, could not raise the money. So they could not marry.

Now the bishop Nicholas was a shy man and did not like to give money directly , so he thought of a way to give it anonymously. When the first daughter was ready to marry, the good bishop tossed a bag of gold into the house at night. Later, when the second daughter prepared to marry, she too received a mysterious bag of gold. When the third daughter prepared to marry, the poor nobleman was determined to find out who had been so generous. So he kept watch and saw the bishop drop another bag of gold into the house. It has been said that Saint Nicholas climbed on the roof and dropped the third bag of gold down the chimney where it landed in a stocking hung to dry, giving us a reason to hang up Christmas stockings today. When the father saw what had happened, Nicholas begged him to keep the secret, but, of course, the news got out. From then on, whenever anyone received an unexpected gift, they thanked Nicholas.

Six hundred years later, the Russian Emperor Vladimir visited Constantinople and heard all the wonderful stories about Bishop Nicholas and decided to make him the patron saint of Russia. The stories even spread to the Laplands - to the people of the reindeer sleds.

The anniversary of Nicholas' death, December 6th, either 345 A.D. or 352 A.D., is so close to Christmas that, in many countries, the two merged. But in Germany and the Netherlands, the two remain separate.

p.s - Saint Nicholas = Sinterklaas(dutch) = Santa clause

sorry, this is one very long post redface


"My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely."

"Insanity is my only means of relaxation."

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:I think if you told your little kids that, they would never ask you anything again for fear of being bored to death!!! ubblol

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Flamez
Flamez

member
Location: Cape Town The Mother City
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2006
Total posts: 56
Posted:I think you might have a valid point

"My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely."

"Insanity is my only means of relaxation."

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:I liked the easter bunny. I wasn't devastated when I found out he was a lie, but I liked to believe in him, and if I ever have kids he's gonna hide their eggs, too!

Also with death I'm not sure. There's different ways of explaining death, and I would prefer the "have gone to sleep and moved on to heaven" to "there is no soul and whatever life they had is gone now and as you can see they weren't too happy when they died so it's really all futile". (yeah I know it's a bit extreme, but I found it a huge consolation as a kid thinking that my dead relatives were in a happy place)


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:Death is different though. We never know for a fact what happens after death. I believe our soul still exists. I'll tell kids my opinion, but put across other's opinions too and say that no one really knows for sure.
It's not lying, its just different perspectives.


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Groovy_Dream
Groovy_Dream

addict

Member Since: 26th May 2005
Total posts: 449
Posted:Lying to children eventually gives a false impression that the world is an evil and wicked place which must be somehow covered up with fairy tales and ignorance. It basically encourages escapism.



This isn't true; there is a lot of beauty and love in the world. If kids are given the chance to see some of society's problems from a mature stance, they are more likely to have a more balanced perception in the long run.



 Written by: Mynci



you can't always expect a child to "learn" something in 1 bite. too complicated to get into here but it's the truth.



on imoprtant matters..tell the truth. but do you lie so they can have a childhood...or make them old before their time... I would stick with the truth



SANTAS DEAD COZ I KILLED HIM devil





Kids are smarter than they seem. They can appear stupid because they don't know very much, but they really aren't. Sure there are kids that need things to be taught in steps; it really depends on the kid in question.



I thought the method of teaching physics/chemistry in high school was bullshit. Every year I was told that what I was taught the year before was slightly wrong, but it was just a building block. All that did was confuse me more, and make me lose faith in what they were teaching. It even happens in university.


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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:YOU DONT KNOW THE TRUTH!

*thinks back to the 60's and 70's pages in the "what do you know about...." thread wink


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:I was lied to as a kid about things like the tooth fairy, etc. I'm glad I was. Childhood is precious. I never want to let it go. I'm still trying to live mine now at the age of 23. Laughing, and giggling, and playing, and being silly, while they may not seem very 'adult and grown up', they're certainly a lot better for you than being forced to grow up when you don't want to, or even growing up ahead of your time.

Of course, when I asked my parents where babies come from, I was given a book that had all the facts in it, and was specially catered for children. That was wicked.

Although my parents messed up a lot at times, they had their ideals in the right place.

But yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is, the innocence of childhood is precious. why so many people want to lose it as soon as they can is beyond me.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted: Written by: PsyRush



I thought the method of teaching physics/chemistry in high school was bullshit. Every year I was told that what I was taught the year before was slightly wrong, but it was just a building block. All that did was confuse me more, and make me lose faith in what they were teaching.



ditto


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Ha ha! I heard something about that at Uni...

In the chemistry lectures, the first thing they were told was: Forget your A levels, they're not right. We're gonna teach you the better and correct things...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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BEZERKER
BEZERKER

enthusiast

Member Since: 29th Apr 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted: Written by: PsyRush


Lying to children eventually gives a false impression that the world is an evil and wicked place which must be somehow covered up with fairy tales and ignorance. It basically encourages escapism.




But what is music, movies, books, art, sport, poi etc. except escapism? The world IS an evil and wicked place.

Sure there's other meanings and motivations for engaging in these activities but essentially I think a shared quality of all these things is that we are escaping from any form of responsibility and forced (either perceived or actual) behaviour or task. So in that regard I think the encouragement of escapism isn't necessarily a bad thing. Of course there are limits to that.

I think Liquifies_Through_Contact gets it perfectly. Childhood is so great for believing in magic. Pick the battles logically (like trying to discuss sex, death etc.) but for the likes of Santa and the Tooth Fairy? Keep the magic alive.

ubbloco


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GothFrogette
GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton
Member Since: 10th Oct 2004
Total posts: 3999
Posted:yes children shouldalways be told the truth but to the level they could easy understand for their age. some times its just the wrong place or time to get into. if its not appropriate i usualy tell them that and that we will discuss it at another time, even if its a case of having to say "you'll understand more when your a little older"
and on the subject of being lied to about sex... i highly recomend a book by babette cole called mummy laid an egg. Its fantastic.


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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