Forums > Social Discussion > Does the US Army Deserve Praise?
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Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
I was in another forum and I saw this message..
The US army is one of the most imoral uncareing and reckless armys around currently, they arnt all like that but it seems somewhere along the way the content control seems to have been skipped by the men in charge.
So I put in this post
Then this guy posts this...
To which I posted after much thought
God bless america, land of the free, land of the american dream, land of the smug! Until someone says something they dont like and they want to erase it, I guess there's a little Richard Nixon in all of them.
I hope this turns into a worthwhile post I think ive gone and missed 'The woman Who Thinks Like a Cow' because of it...dag-namit!
I was in another forum and I saw this message..
Written by:
BAGHDAD, Iraq — Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Al Qaeda in Iraq leader who led a brutal insurgency that included homicide bombings, kidnappings and beheadings, was killed in an airstrike on a building north of Baghdad, U.S. and Iraqi officials announced Thursday.
The man whose been responsible for killing American Soldiers and the deaths of untold thousands of Iraqi civilians just ate 1000lbs of bombs, which was oh so graciously delivered to him by one of our F-16's.
Keep up the good fight guys. The world is a safer place today.
The US army is one of the most imoral uncareing and reckless armys around currently, they arnt all like that but it seems somewhere along the way the content control seems to have been skipped by the men in charge.
So I put in this post
Written by:
Now if we could just stop jar heads killing civilians, or shooting british troops. There was this time these geniouse americans were orderd to wait for british troops to relieve them and told to shoot anyone who comes near them until the british arrive. The english arrive in english vehicles, at the correct time, on the planned route, broadcasting over the radio announcing there approach. So what do the american troops do? Start shooting the British, huzah!
Then this guy posts this...
Written by:
On the interest of keeping things civil, I'll ask you to remove that, or have a DM do so, and we'll forget it was ever there.
This was made to honor those who are over there making the sacrifice that to few are willing to make. American, British, Australian, Japanese, and the rest of those in the coalition.
Not to attack them
To which I posted after much thought
Written by:
Wouldnt that be un-constitutional?
God bless america, land of the free, land of the american dream, land of the smug! Until someone says something they dont like and they want to erase it, I guess there's a little Richard Nixon in all of them.
I hope this turns into a worthwhile post I think ive gone and missed 'The woman Who Thinks Like a Cow' because of it...dag-namit!
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
Oh how my posts have changed
, I blame you people!!
Oh how my posts have changed
, I blame you people!! Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
Internet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
Posted:
That\'s the problem with bombs, see.
Indiscriminate.
Who\'d have thunk it, eh?
That\'s the problem with bombs, see.
Indiscriminate.
Who\'d have thunk it, eh?
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
BRONZE Member
newbie
44 posts
Location: South Florida, USA
newbie
44 posts
Location: South Florida, USA
Posted:
bombs dont kill people..
they kill anything and everything in their radius.
military targets (be it by whosever army) is only as good as the intelligence it recieves -
personally those as much as i support the u.s. troops, we're in a no win situation. we dont really want to be there, the people (those ordinary people like us) dont want us there & they dont want the terrorists there either. but since the terrorists are religious fanatics - they need to be dealt with since u can't reason with them, even with their own religious laws.
I would be perfectly happy if all the suicide bombers would walk into the desert with nobody around but them and blow themselves up. blowing yourself up and innocent children while looking them in the eye is umm...
personally i dont care what religion anybody is.. i try to respect them and theirs as long as they respect me and mine. but i draw the line at fanatics. they dont mind dying and they want to take you along with them.
nuff ranting and raving.
bombs dont kill people..
they kill anything and everything in their radius.
military targets (be it by whosever army) is only as good as the intelligence it recieves -
personally those as much as i support the u.s. troops, we're in a no win situation. we dont really want to be there, the people (those ordinary people like us) dont want us there & they dont want the terrorists there either. but since the terrorists are religious fanatics - they need to be dealt with since u can't reason with them, even with their own religious laws.
I would be perfectly happy if all the suicide bombers would walk into the desert with nobody around but them and blow themselves up. blowing yourself up and innocent children while looking them in the eye is umm...
personally i dont care what religion anybody is.. i try to respect them and theirs as long as they respect me and mine. but i draw the line at fanatics. they dont mind dying and they want to take you along with them.
nuff ranting and raving.
Every Day I add another name to the list of people who piss me off
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ea-DinsBJQ&search=%20M.O.A.B.%20BOMB
rAHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh the size of this bomb..............
the scaled down effects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ea-DinsBJQ&search=%20M.O.A.B.%20BOMB
rAHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh the size of this bomb..............
the scaled down effects
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I think a lot of people deserve praise for standing up for what they believe in and fight for human rights. Where the US Army does that, it deserves praise. Where people risk their lives because their country is threatened or they actually fight for improvement, while I might not agree that fighting is the right way, they deserve praise for standing to their principles like that - there's not much that I'd want to be in their position for.
Where those kids, just out of high school and with guns, are put somewhere without having realised what they signed up for and fight their way through, or desert and live with the consequences, they deserve respect, because I can't tell how I'd react in their place.
If they snap, and shoot at the wrong person for being so strung out, they don't deserve praise. I'm not saying it could never happen to me, God know what I'd be like if I had to defend my life! But it's still a wrong thing to do.
If a bunch of middle-aged men sit round a table and allow to have prisons like Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, decide to not inquire into why one of their aircrafts was flying low in Italy without permission and cut through a gondola rope, killing 20 people, and not even allowing a lawsuit for punishment of the pilots and compensation, I get angry. If they think their country should have more rights than the United Nations or the NATO, I'm not impressed.
I think a lot of people deserve praise for standing up for what they believe in and fight for human rights. Where the US Army does that, it deserves praise. Where people risk their lives because their country is threatened or they actually fight for improvement, while I might not agree that fighting is the right way, they deserve praise for standing to their principles like that - there's not much that I'd want to be in their position for.
Where those kids, just out of high school and with guns, are put somewhere without having realised what they signed up for and fight their way through, or desert and live with the consequences, they deserve respect, because I can't tell how I'd react in their place.
If they snap, and shoot at the wrong person for being so strung out, they don't deserve praise. I'm not saying it could never happen to me, God know what I'd be like if I had to defend my life! But it's still a wrong thing to do.
If a bunch of middle-aged men sit round a table and allow to have prisons like Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, decide to not inquire into why one of their aircrafts was flying low in Italy without permission and cut through a gondola rope, killing 20 people, and not even allowing a lawsuit for punishment of the pilots and compensation, I get angry. If they think their country should have more rights than the United Nations or the NATO, I'm not impressed.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Self righteous people on boards are a fact of life. Don't let them get to you.
Also, it depends on who you mean by the "American Military". I'm sure there are nice people in there somewhere, it's just that they're hiding behind incompetant generals, brutal infantry and indiscriminate armour divisions.
I find (and this is not intended as an insult) that you have to look very hard for an american who doesn't think that their country is superior to almost any other. I don't want responses saying "Oh but I don't..." or anything, it's just a general statement of fact. With all the americans I've spoken to, the majority are disproportionally proud of what their country has "accomplished" and it's "history".
Self righteous people on boards are a fact of life. Don't let them get to you.
Also, it depends on who you mean by the "American Military". I'm sure there are nice people in there somewhere, it's just that they're hiding behind incompetant generals, brutal infantry and indiscriminate armour divisions.
I find (and this is not intended as an insult) that you have to look very hard for an american who doesn't think that their country is superior to almost any other. I don't want responses saying "Oh but I don't..." or anything, it's just a general statement of fact. With all the americans I've spoken to, the majority are disproportionally proud of what their country has "accomplished" and it's "history".
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
1. Why such casting of stones? I see that there are Brits involved in this war, as well as many other forces from alot of different countries. What I have read, Americans are not the only ones with "friendly fire" incedents. Americans are not the only one with bullets that stray and bombs that kill more than the target person. Please, get off the high horses. I am tired of it. I don't agree with the war at all, but I also don't agree with the one sided bashing going on in an attempt to deflect attention to the fact that your own country is involved in it as well.
2. I don't support the people in charge. I don't support the ones dictating where to aim.
I do support the troops..then men and women. I am sick to death of every person involved in the military being lumped as idiot meatheads. Many of the men and women in the military attempting to support their families, get an education, serve their country (as they are sworn to do or else go to jail), etc. They can't help where they are stationed, despite how much most of them would like to. Not a single person I know who has been involved in any of these "wars" or "police actions" wanted to be involved in them. Not one. They were earning college money and attempting to learn a trade. One involved in this war was on inactive duty when he was called in. His life here is RUINED because he is there. He owned his own business, that went to crap when he couldn't be here to run it. He was shot and had to return...and his mental state..well, it wrecked his marriage. Yeah. Yay war. No, the guys there really don't love it as much as everyone seems to want to believe they do. And since these are a large cross section of my friends over the span of years...I can tell you it is not isolated, or just my friends. They are simply doing their job, because if they don't they get to go to prison. If this were such a "popular" war here, why is no one running to enlist?
3. Sethis, then you have sadly spoken to a very small cross section of Americans. If you mean the history of struggling out from oppression of other countries for independence to becoming a force in global industries...then yes, I am proud of that. Several countries can actually be proud of that.
My grandfather came here (legally) dirt poor from Canada, barely spoke English and did well for himself and his family. That is America at its very core, and I am damn proud of that. In the scope of the world, there are not tonnes of countries that happens in. I am not proud of how it has been achieved on the grand historical scale. Many here are not. In making such vague statements you will only get vague answers.
And yet...why are so many of you British so down on Americans when your history of oppression is just as bloody and violent, and even more drawn out? Are you really proud of the history of your country and the blood it shed, from long before the US til now even, so much that you will condemn another country for perceived similar behaviours? How many wars have you been in? How many peoples did the Brits oppress in their attempt to rule the world? How long did they remain cocky as a "superforce" in the world (and some of you still are about that)?
In fact, I would say that the way the British have capitalized on that nasty history for the sake of tourism is bloody brilliant and quite the leader in that, admittedly with America following closely behind.
AND Europeans and Asians can't boast anything better.
Oh, I know, the "white people" (who, by the way, weren't Americans at the time but under British rule) oppressed the Natives. Right, cause that didn't happen in South America with the Conquistadors? Or in Australia with the...huh...British outcasts and the Aboriginese? Or in New Zealand with the Maori? No, I suppose that's okay because they weren't American.:rolleyes:
See...the point is...no country is better than any other. We are all human..no matter where we are born... and with that comes the good, the bad and the blood thirsty.
There is nothing we can do about this war as far as stopping it. If we could, it would be over by now. So the freakin' best we can do is support the guys there...not for doing what they are told to but for doing their job. I support them coming home safely and in one piece. All of them...American or not.
And frankly...I'm a bit tired of it all, especially because the condemnation seems not only one sided at the US, but rampant on this board with tonnes of threads about how aweful we all are with minimal disclaimers about how there might be a couple of nice ones amongst us. I guess all of this has just made me tired of being nice.
*stepping off
now*
1. Why such casting of stones? I see that there are Brits involved in this war, as well as many other forces from alot of different countries. What I have read, Americans are not the only ones with "friendly fire" incedents. Americans are not the only one with bullets that stray and bombs that kill more than the target person. Please, get off the high horses. I am tired of it. I don't agree with the war at all, but I also don't agree with the one sided bashing going on in an attempt to deflect attention to the fact that your own country is involved in it as well.
2. I don't support the people in charge. I don't support the ones dictating where to aim.
I do support the troops..then men and women. I am sick to death of every person involved in the military being lumped as idiot meatheads. Many of the men and women in the military attempting to support their families, get an education, serve their country (as they are sworn to do or else go to jail), etc. They can't help where they are stationed, despite how much most of them would like to. Not a single person I know who has been involved in any of these "wars" or "police actions" wanted to be involved in them. Not one. They were earning college money and attempting to learn a trade. One involved in this war was on inactive duty when he was called in. His life here is RUINED because he is there. He owned his own business, that went to crap when he couldn't be here to run it. He was shot and had to return...and his mental state..well, it wrecked his marriage. Yeah. Yay war. No, the guys there really don't love it as much as everyone seems to want to believe they do. And since these are a large cross section of my friends over the span of years...I can tell you it is not isolated, or just my friends. They are simply doing their job, because if they don't they get to go to prison. If this were such a "popular" war here, why is no one running to enlist?
3. Sethis, then you have sadly spoken to a very small cross section of Americans. If you mean the history of struggling out from oppression of other countries for independence to becoming a force in global industries...then yes, I am proud of that. Several countries can actually be proud of that.
My grandfather came here (legally) dirt poor from Canada, barely spoke English and did well for himself and his family. That is America at its very core, and I am damn proud of that. In the scope of the world, there are not tonnes of countries that happens in. I am not proud of how it has been achieved on the grand historical scale. Many here are not. In making such vague statements you will only get vague answers.
And yet...why are so many of you British so down on Americans when your history of oppression is just as bloody and violent, and even more drawn out? Are you really proud of the history of your country and the blood it shed, from long before the US til now even, so much that you will condemn another country for perceived similar behaviours? How many wars have you been in? How many peoples did the Brits oppress in their attempt to rule the world? How long did they remain cocky as a "superforce" in the world (and some of you still are about that)?
In fact, I would say that the way the British have capitalized on that nasty history for the sake of tourism is bloody brilliant and quite the leader in that, admittedly with America following closely behind.
AND Europeans and Asians can't boast anything better.
Oh, I know, the "white people" (who, by the way, weren't Americans at the time but under British rule) oppressed the Natives. Right, cause that didn't happen in South America with the Conquistadors? Or in Australia with the...huh...British outcasts and the Aboriginese? Or in New Zealand with the Maori? No, I suppose that's okay because they weren't American.:rolleyes:
See...the point is...no country is better than any other. We are all human..no matter where we are born... and with that comes the good, the bad and the blood thirsty.
There is nothing we can do about this war as far as stopping it. If we could, it would be over by now. So the freakin' best we can do is support the guys there...not for doing what they are told to but for doing their job. I support them coming home safely and in one piece. All of them...American or not.
And frankly...I'm a bit tired of it all, especially because the condemnation seems not only one sided at the US, but rampant on this board with tonnes of threads about how aweful we all are with minimal disclaimers about how there might be a couple of nice ones amongst us. I guess all of this has just made me tired of being nice.
*stepping off
now* Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
I love a good soapbox speech, on any topic.
Way to stack those points Pele
I love a good soapbox speech, on any topic.
Way to stack those points Pele
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Pele, I hear your patriotism, but I think it’s bind; perhaps because Americans seem so insular. If you are tired of it of the war, then how do you think the Iraqis (ed) feel? No only has the American led invasion caused untold damage and loss of life, but America has managed to replace a secular parliament with a bunch of Muslim extremists.
I’m fed up because it was a stupid war to begin with, terrorism has increased dramatically since the invasion, and the world has become much nastier place to live.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1150146989)
Pele, I hear your patriotism, but I think it’s bind; perhaps because Americans seem so insular. If you are tired of it of the war, then how do you think the Iraqis (ed) feel? No only has the American led invasion caused untold damage and loss of life, but America has managed to replace a secular parliament with a bunch of Muslim extremists.
I’m fed up because it was a stupid war to begin with, terrorism has increased dramatically since the invasion, and the world has become much nastier place to live.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1150146989)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
mentality of a soldier = willing to sign your life to the hands of others is something i'll never understand.
mentality of a soldier = willing to sign your life to the hands of others is something i'll never understand.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,191 posts
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,191 posts
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Posted:
Was watching this on the news last night and it REALLY upset me.
I understand and respect all of the soldiers out there at the moment.They are doing a job that i honestly don't think i could do and for that they deserve respect, despite the fact i don't agree with what they are doing.
I also think its perhaps a little harsh to put so much blame on the US army. Yes they dropped the bomb but remember,we're involved in this war aswell, and it has as much to do with the british army as it does the US.
Personally i really didnt agree with the bombing, I understand that war is violent and sometimes innocent people will get killed in the cross fire,its sad but true.
However the fact that they dropped 2 500lb bombs on the house seems a little excessive to me. They must have known that it was going to destroy some of the surrounding area aswell, and being a village, also known that there would be women and children around.
I personally would like the to hear the reasoning behind such a drastic measure. Is there ever an excuse to cause that much damage? Personally i think not but hey...i guess I'm not really close enough to the situation to understand it properly.
Another thing that upset me was the fact that on the news it was only briefly mentioned that the people in the village were upset with the US army for killing the women and children, and all of the interviews etc were conducted with people rejoicing over the death of Zarqawi. I thought that this was far too biased.
So in general i found the news pretty depressing last night, and No i don't think the US army should be praised for the death of Zarqawi, but please remember how hard their job is even if you don't agree with it, and also that us british folk are in this war aswell.
Was watching this on the news last night and it REALLY upset me.
I understand and respect all of the soldiers out there at the moment.They are doing a job that i honestly don't think i could do and for that they deserve respect, despite the fact i don't agree with what they are doing.
I also think its perhaps a little harsh to put so much blame on the US army. Yes they dropped the bomb but remember,we're involved in this war aswell, and it has as much to do with the british army as it does the US.
Personally i really didnt agree with the bombing, I understand that war is violent and sometimes innocent people will get killed in the cross fire,its sad but true.
However the fact that they dropped 2 500lb bombs on the house seems a little excessive to me. They must have known that it was going to destroy some of the surrounding area aswell, and being a village, also known that there would be women and children around.
I personally would like the to hear the reasoning behind such a drastic measure. Is there ever an excuse to cause that much damage? Personally i think not but hey...i guess I'm not really close enough to the situation to understand it properly.
Another thing that upset me was the fact that on the news it was only briefly mentioned that the people in the village were upset with the US army for killing the women and children, and all of the interviews etc were conducted with people rejoicing over the death of Zarqawi. I thought that this was far too biased.
So in general i found the news pretty depressing last night, and No i don't think the US army should be praised for the death of Zarqawi, but please remember how hard their job is even if you don't agree with it, and also that us british folk are in this war aswell.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Pele, like I said, it was a general observation from my own experience. Not an attempt to start an argument. Nor am I defending the UK. As soon as someone starts a thread "bashing" the UK then I'll jump in with guns blazing because frankly I'm sick of this country I live in as well. As soon as someone says "The british way of life is the best, and everyone should live in the same way" then I'll laugh just as loudly at them.
In the meantime, this thread is about American forces. Obviously people will say what they think about them. Also obvious is the fact that American forces are the ones always dominating the news, generally with tidbits on how many civilians they killed this week. That's probably because they have the largest occupying force, and therefore a larger number of incidents happen to them. However it does logically make them the largest targets for criticism, especially with all of the added fuss about Guantanamo bay, CIA torture flights etc etc.
While repetitive America-bashing is tedious, and I appreciate you find it so, there are still a hell of a lot of people who are angry at America, for whatever reason.
Pele, like I said, it was a general observation from my own experience. Not an attempt to start an argument. Nor am I defending the UK. As soon as someone starts a thread "bashing" the UK then I'll jump in with guns blazing because frankly I'm sick of this country I live in as well. As soon as someone says "The british way of life is the best, and everyone should live in the same way" then I'll laugh just as loudly at them.
In the meantime, this thread is about American forces. Obviously people will say what they think about them. Also obvious is the fact that American forces are the ones always dominating the news, generally with tidbits on how many civilians they killed this week. That's probably because they have the largest occupying force, and therefore a larger number of incidents happen to them. However it does logically make them the largest targets for criticism, especially with all of the added fuss about Guantanamo bay, CIA torture flights etc etc.
While repetitive America-bashing is tedious, and I appreciate you find it so, there are still a hell of a lot of people who are angry at America, for whatever reason.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
i think the us army dose deserve praise.....................it keeps all the dumbass, psychotic people out of the prison system, gives the a command and a weapon and trains them to kill........................yeah nice one, god bless america
i think the us army dose deserve praise.....................it keeps all the dumbass, psychotic people out of the prison system, gives the a command and a weapon and trains them to kill........................yeah nice one, god bless america
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
I respect people willing to put their life on the line to defend their homes, families and freedom (as they see it), and as far as that goes, I support the armies in Iraq. What I don't agree with, indeed I despise it, is when I see people manipulated through their beliefs into a situation where they are causing harm to others for the benefit of politicians and buisnessmen.
For me part of the question is: how effective are the weapons we are using? Is this war really about fighting people or ideas? would we not provide a longer term, more effective solution if we were to educate, not eliminate?
If we provide more people in a country with the capability to reason and argue more for what they believe in, I believe this can open a path for more dialogue and less killing: it's difficult to talk to people while you're shooting at them. And when fighting religious extremism of any kind, logic and reason are your best weapons.
I've rambled here a bit, but it's just a few thoughts...
I respect people willing to put their life on the line to defend their homes, families and freedom (as they see it), and as far as that goes, I support the armies in Iraq. What I don't agree with, indeed I despise it, is when I see people manipulated through their beliefs into a situation where they are causing harm to others for the benefit of politicians and buisnessmen.
For me part of the question is: how effective are the weapons we are using? Is this war really about fighting people or ideas? would we not provide a longer term, more effective solution if we were to educate, not eliminate?
If we provide more people in a country with the capability to reason and argue more for what they believe in, I believe this can open a path for more dialogue and less killing: it's difficult to talk to people while you're shooting at them. And when fighting religious extremism of any kind, logic and reason are your best weapons.
I've rambled here a bit, but it's just a few thoughts...
Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Slightly off topic, but regarding Zarqawi himself, i found this interesting.
Slightly off topic, but regarding Zarqawi himself, i found this interesting.
Written by: Wiki
A day before Zarqawi was killed, a U.S. strategic analysis site suggested that Zarqawi could have lost the trust of al-Qaeda due to his emphatic anti-Shia stance and the massacres of civilians allegedly committed in his name. Reports in The New York Times on June 9th are treating the betrayal by at least one fellow al-Qaeda member as fact, stating that an individual close to Zarqawi disclosed the identity and location of Sheik Abd al-Rahman to Jordanian and American intelligence. Non-stop surveillance of al-Rahman quickly led to Zarqawi.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
Does the US Army Deserve Praise?
no
Does the US Army Deserve Praise?
no
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Regarding praise for the US Army, i agree with Birgit.
On every point she made, i agree with Pele.
Regarding praise for the US Army, i agree with Birgit.
On every point she made, i agree with Pele.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
GOLD Member
organic creation
246 posts
Location: earth, Wales (UK)
organic creation
246 posts
Location: earth, Wales (UK)
Posted:
"Public opinion is now fairly solidly against the war in Iraq. More than half of Americans – 55% - think the U.S. should have stayed out of Iraq (the highest figure to date)"
i would agree with the public opinion
it sounds unintelligent to make a vague comment about so many people. do you really think that people are so different because of where they were born or what language they speak?
"Public opinion is now fairly solidly against the war in Iraq. More than half of Americans – 55% - think the U.S. should have stayed out of Iraq (the highest figure to date)"
i would agree with the public opinion
Written by: Sethis
I find (and this is not intended as an insult) that you have to look very hard for an american who doesn't think that their country is superior to almost any other. I don't want responses saying "Oh but I don't..." or anything, it's just a general statement of fact. With all the americans I've spoken to, the majority are disproportionally proud of what their country has "accomplished" and it's "history".
it sounds unintelligent to make a vague comment about so many people. do you really think that people are so different because of where they were born or what language they speak?
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Ummm...Stone...please do not call me patriotic. I find it insulting. I am not, which is why I said I support all of the soldiers, American or not, in my post. That means ALL of them.
I hate our current government.
I have despised this war since right after 9/11 when Bush said "We's ganna huntchew down." Yes, that was a right brilliant statement.
I loathe our judicial system.
However, supporting the safety and well being of people who are in a sucky situation because they enlisted before this war, is also not patriotism. Hoping for healing for all the families who have suffered losses on all sides of this is not patriotic. Hoping that ALL people there, no matter where they are from, to be safe is definately not patriotism...it is being a caring human.
I could not do the job these men and women do. I always admire and respect people who have the courage to do something I can not.
I sure as hell am not blind, and resent being called such. If I were blind I would be rooting for the boys over there to shoot 'em up...and I won't. I would be backing Bush and eating up the government and media crap like ambrosia. On the whole this country isn't doing that (anymore) because we are all sick of it, and I am with you on being over it the day it started. I also agree, it has made the world a much nastier place.
Which leads me to, let me ask this...can you travel where you want without judgement? I bet you can.
I'm American because I happen to have been born here. Yet, I was told to say that I am Canadian when I travel. I have been places where people literally treat me differently because I am American. It happened in Toronto recently actually. It has happened in Vancouver and in New Zealand.
My friend went on a mediteranean cruise recently. He boarded in Spain and had stuff thrown at him and was treated like crap by a group of college age kids. The only word he made out in the entire thing they were saying was "American". Another friend went to Scotland recently. The only friend he made on the trip was from Canada because as soon as people found out he was American, they ignored his exsistance...but they took his money.
So, Sethis, how does a thread like this help things? How does it help to stop that type of mentality? How does it help to seperate the actual human beings with feelings from the false perception that we are all blind automotons of our government? To me, this thread is perpetuating that notion.
I'm not arguing Sethis. I am pointing things out and giving my opinion. That is what you asked for, correct? This is social discussion, and I am discussing.
"Does the US Army deserve praise?"
When, now? Ever?
Does yours? Does any?
How about the soldiers that are attempting to save the civilians there from further devistation? Yes they do.
How about the military that is left here at home who attempted to help with the dominoes of disasters here and being shot at or worked round the clock because there seems to be a shortage of help? Yes they do.
What about the army nurses and doctors who treat patients indescrimanently? Absolutely they do.
Do the people in charge? No.
But are you seperating them? No.
Sethis, if you are not part of the solution...you are part of the problem. And right now, the mentality towards Americans on the whole is a HUGE f-in' problem...and it isn't the fault of the millions of us who live here but we are the ones who feel the global brunt of it every day in threads and discussions like this.
Written by: Stone
Pele, I hear your patriotism, but I think it’s bind; perhaps because Americans seem so insular. If you are tired of it of the war, then how do you think the Iranians feel?
Ummm...Stone...please do not call me patriotic. I find it insulting. I am not, which is why I said I support all of the soldiers, American or not, in my post. That means ALL of them.
I hate our current government.
I have despised this war since right after 9/11 when Bush said "We's ganna huntchew down." Yes, that was a right brilliant statement.
I loathe our judicial system.
However, supporting the safety and well being of people who are in a sucky situation because they enlisted before this war, is also not patriotism. Hoping for healing for all the families who have suffered losses on all sides of this is not patriotic. Hoping that ALL people there, no matter where they are from, to be safe is definately not patriotism...it is being a caring human.
I could not do the job these men and women do. I always admire and respect people who have the courage to do something I can not.
I sure as hell am not blind, and resent being called such. If I were blind I would be rooting for the boys over there to shoot 'em up...and I won't. I would be backing Bush and eating up the government and media crap like ambrosia. On the whole this country isn't doing that (anymore) because we are all sick of it, and I am with you on being over it the day it started. I also agree, it has made the world a much nastier place.
Which leads me to, let me ask this...can you travel where you want without judgement? I bet you can.
I'm American because I happen to have been born here. Yet, I was told to say that I am Canadian when I travel. I have been places where people literally treat me differently because I am American. It happened in Toronto recently actually. It has happened in Vancouver and in New Zealand.
My friend went on a mediteranean cruise recently. He boarded in Spain and had stuff thrown at him and was treated like crap by a group of college age kids. The only word he made out in the entire thing they were saying was "American". Another friend went to Scotland recently. The only friend he made on the trip was from Canada because as soon as people found out he was American, they ignored his exsistance...but they took his money.
So, Sethis, how does a thread like this help things? How does it help to stop that type of mentality? How does it help to seperate the actual human beings with feelings from the false perception that we are all blind automotons of our government? To me, this thread is perpetuating that notion.
I'm not arguing Sethis. I am pointing things out and giving my opinion. That is what you asked for, correct? This is social discussion, and I am discussing.
"Does the US Army deserve praise?"
When, now? Ever?
Does yours? Does any?
How about the soldiers that are attempting to save the civilians there from further devistation? Yes they do.
How about the military that is left here at home who attempted to help with the dominoes of disasters here and being shot at or worked round the clock because there seems to be a shortage of help? Yes they do.
What about the army nurses and doctors who treat patients indescrimanently? Absolutely they do.
Do the people in charge? No.
But are you seperating them? No.
Sethis, if you are not part of the solution...you are part of the problem. And right now, the mentality towards Americans on the whole is a HUGE f-in' problem...and it isn't the fault of the millions of us who live here but we are the ones who feel the global brunt of it every day in threads and discussions like this.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
maybe if the rest of the world had our back instead saying how horrible we are, the terrorists might not feel as free to act as they do
i support the military, they deserve praise, i've done the first two years of ROTC, the only civilian to finish winter manuever the first year
why didn't i join? because anyone with half a brain knew we were going into iraq and i don't think i would deal well with the chaos
chaos leads to anxiety attacks and war is no place to be having those
maybe if the rest of the world had our back instead saying how horrible we are, the terrorists might not feel as free to act as they do
i support the military, they deserve praise, i've done the first two years of ROTC, the only civilian to finish winter manuever the first year
why didn't i join? because anyone with half a brain knew we were going into iraq and i don't think i would deal well with the chaos
chaos leads to anxiety attacks and war is no place to be having those
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
*steps in for nyc*
is that anything like "you're either with us or against us"?
cole. x
*steps in for nyc*
Written by: Pele
if you are not part of the solution...you are part of the problem
is that anything like "you're either with us or against us"?
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Pele, what you and your friends have experienced has NOTHING to do with them being American, but with people being too stupid to look past age, race, nationality, disability etc, and I'm sure it has happened to most of us.
Take Canada - when I went there on exchange I was asked (seriously) if I love Hitler. Some people in Britain still think it's the funniest thing in the world to walk up to me in military step and say "don't mention the war". A kid in my school got beaten up and called a Nazi on England exchange. And I won't even mention what people in Israel said to us.
My English ex on the other hand was told to claim he was Irish when going to Scotland, and had to face anti-English/pro-Scottish prejudice even from Germans who thought all English were evil because they'd just watched Braveheart.
Yes, it takes bravery to stand up for what you've signed up for. We've discussed this before, and I can't understand how one can sign up for the army and not know what they're doing, but apparently some people can. So why it's brave, and deserves respect, it surely doesn't deserve PRAISE to get your life in danger for a cause you may not even wholeheartedly support. Me, I'd praise them for deserting and facing jail instead. Do I know what I'm talking about? Well, I never met one of my relatives cause he got shot for deserting when asked to burn down a synagogue, so I guess that if I had the choice to be in prison or to be potentially killed or turn a killer, I know what I'd do.
Pele, what you and your friends have experienced has NOTHING to do with them being American, but with people being too stupid to look past age, race, nationality, disability etc, and I'm sure it has happened to most of us.
Take Canada - when I went there on exchange I was asked (seriously) if I love Hitler. Some people in Britain still think it's the funniest thing in the world to walk up to me in military step and say "don't mention the war". A kid in my school got beaten up and called a Nazi on England exchange. And I won't even mention what people in Israel said to us.
My English ex on the other hand was told to claim he was Irish when going to Scotland, and had to face anti-English/pro-Scottish prejudice even from Germans who thought all English were evil because they'd just watched Braveheart.
Yes, it takes bravery to stand up for what you've signed up for. We've discussed this before, and I can't understand how one can sign up for the army and not know what they're doing, but apparently some people can. So why it's brave, and deserves respect, it surely doesn't deserve PRAISE to get your life in danger for a cause you may not even wholeheartedly support. Me, I'd praise them for deserting and facing jail instead. Do I know what I'm talking about? Well, I never met one of my relatives cause he got shot for deserting when asked to burn down a synagogue, so I guess that if I had the choice to be in prison or to be potentially killed or turn a killer, I know what I'd do.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
what brought it out was where we are from
why b/c they can't figure out something fairly obvious. It's not brave, it's ignorance. Bravery is about knowing danger and doing something, not being blind to it, some would call the dumb luck.
Written by: Birgit
Pele, what you and your friends have experienced has NOTHING to do with them being American, but with people being too stupid to look past age, race, nationality, disability etc, and I'm sure it has happened to most of us.
what brought it out was where we are from
Written by: Birgit
I can't understand how one can sign up for the army and not know what they're doing, but apparently some people can. So why it's brave, and deserves respect.
why b/c they can't figure out something fairly obvious. It's not brave, it's ignorance. Bravery is about knowing danger and doing something, not being blind to it, some would call the dumb luck.
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
member
44 posts
Location: Belfast
44 posts
Location: Belfast
Posted:
I dont think they deserve praise no.
I actually feel sorry for anybody who is being used as pawns in George Bushs game. I cant believe how people can be so misguided as to buy into the shite that comes out of George Bushes mouth (continually)
Hence pity is more what I feel for those people. Feeling hatred and anger for what they have done/are doing wont really solve anything as it only feeds the fire.
The whole thing is just a farce - young men and women out there killing and being killed to feed the big machine of greed ... Its really sad, but it has been going on for as long as humanity has existed.
This is a really good site for anyone who is interested in reading a bit more about the Iraq 'situaiton'
www.firethistime.org
I dont think they deserve praise no.
I actually feel sorry for anybody who is being used as pawns in George Bushs game. I cant believe how people can be so misguided as to buy into the shite that comes out of George Bushes mouth (continually)
Hence pity is more what I feel for those people. Feeling hatred and anger for what they have done/are doing wont really solve anything as it only feeds the fire.
The whole thing is just a farce - young men and women out there killing and being killed to feed the big machine of greed ... Its really sad, but it has been going on for as long as humanity has existed.
This is a really good site for anyone who is interested in reading a bit more about the Iraq 'situaiton'
www.firethistime.org
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
i'm sure the percieved mentality of everyone against america would be quite a problem, as would the percieved mentality that all americans believe they are superior (this is so constructive)
please dont believe that you are right and they are wrong, thats the whole problem with this situation. if "the rest of the world" were with you, then the 'terrorists' would have their views oppressed even more. i'm not condoning acts of violence here, but i dont see how "the rest of the world" having "your" backs would really help the situation of "us Vs them/right vs wrong", as they believe that THEY are right and YOU are wrong. its not getting anyone anywhere.
Written by: pele
Sethis, if you are not part of the solution...you are part of the problem. And right now, the mentality towards Americans on the whole is a HUGE f-in' problem
i'm sure the percieved mentality of everyone against america would be quite a problem, as would the percieved mentality that all americans believe they are superior (this is so constructive)
Written by: faithinfire
maybe if the rest of the world had our back instead saying how horrible we are, the terrorists might not feel as free to act as they do
please dont believe that you are right and they are wrong, thats the whole problem with this situation. if "the rest of the world" were with you, then the 'terrorists' would have their views oppressed even more. i'm not condoning acts of violence here, but i dont see how "the rest of the world" having "your" backs would really help the situation of "us Vs them/right vs wrong", as they believe that THEY are right and YOU are wrong. its not getting anyone anywhere.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
If americans had any idea how many people they have killed, tortured and suppressed for monetary gain over the years then i think you would realise that these people aren't 'terrorists', they are 'reactionaries'.
You pushed them, you bullied them, you killed them. Now they want to kill you in return.
The current score in the iqaq war looks something like this:
USA 40,000 people murdered :: Terrorists 5,000 people murdered
It's called karma. And america has a whole lot of blood on it's hands *cough* CIA executed 6 million people*cough*
Britain is equally guilty, i dislike both governments equally and i dispise people who voted for both governments equally too. However we are all to blaim for allowing our mock-democracy to commit genocide against our fellow humans.
In the wise words of Bill Hicks:
"Couldn't our technology be used to shoot bananas at hungry people"
If americans had any idea how many people they have killed, tortured and suppressed for monetary gain over the years then i think you would realise that these people aren't 'terrorists', they are 'reactionaries'.
You pushed them, you bullied them, you killed them. Now they want to kill you in return.
The current score in the iqaq war looks something like this:
USA 40,000 people murdered :: Terrorists 5,000 people murdered
It's called karma. And america has a whole lot of blood on it's hands *cough* CIA executed 6 million people*cough*
Britain is equally guilty, i dislike both governments equally and i dispise people who voted for both governments equally too. However we are all to blaim for allowing our mock-democracy to commit genocide against our fellow humans.
In the wise words of Bill Hicks:
"Couldn't our technology be used to shoot bananas at hungry people"
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
THe difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist exists only in the language of the newspaper you're reading.
I don't agree with the terrorist's means/methods. What they do is wrong.
What they're doing it for?
I'm not one to judge that. And i don't think anyone else on here is, either.
The way the rest of the world deals with people doing the wrong thing determines how they're seen, who they are. America seems to be copping a lot of flak for their methods. Personally, i think it's because a high number of similarities can be seen between the terrorist's ways, and America's responses.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
THe difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist exists only in the language of the newspaper you're reading.
I don't agree with the terrorist's means/methods. What they do is wrong.
What they're doing it for?
I'm not one to judge that. And i don't think anyone else on here is, either.
The way the rest of the world deals with people doing the wrong thing determines how they're seen, who they are. America seems to be copping a lot of flak for their methods. Personally, i think it's because a high number of similarities can be seen between the terrorist's ways, and America's responses.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
SILVER Member
member
185 posts
Location: Australia,Vic
member
185 posts
Location: Australia,Vic
Posted:
Its passed deserving praise. When someone trips over a crack in concrete and a lady helps pick up the mess made by the dropped books. She deserves praise...and not to much at that.
When it comes down to the killing of a well known and hated terrorist, 'praise' is not a word that comes to mind. When the news came through and I heard the words 'good' I relized that a man had to be killed to be silenced. A man had to be killed regardless of his beliefs or fanaticism or disregard of others.
The death of anybody doesn't deserve praise. Now maybe I'm just a softy but I think we have pretty much missed the message.
Its passed deserving praise. When someone trips over a crack in concrete and a lady helps pick up the mess made by the dropped books. She deserves praise...and not to much at that.
When it comes down to the killing of a well known and hated terrorist, 'praise' is not a word that comes to mind. When the news came through and I heard the words 'good' I relized that a man had to be killed to be silenced. A man had to be killed regardless of his beliefs or fanaticism or disregard of others.
The death of anybody doesn't deserve praise. Now maybe I'm just a softy but I think we have pretty much missed the message.
"glow bugs, to slow to resist eating, to bitter to eat more than one handfull in a sitting" toothpaste for dinner
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
Two wrongs can make a right. Our police officers are expected to speed, in order to catch those that are speeding. Through the police officer's "wrong" he is able to stop the other person's "wrong." Similarly, if a criminal has decided to kidnap a person and lock them in a basement, our police will kidnap the criminal and lock him up as well.
The U.S. army deserves to be chastized when they do something wrong, but they also deserve praise when they do something right.
The purpose of an army is to break things and kill people. When they do this to the right things and people, and make the world a better place for us, they deserve praise. When they break the wrong things and kill the wrong people, they deserve to be chastized.
Al Z. seems to be one of the right people to kill. Thus, it would seem that the military deserves praise for killing him.
Of course, as was pointed out by other web sites, Al Z. was actually killed long ago and had been sitting in a freezer for a long time. They just brought him out now to distract people from the failure to do anything about illegal immigration.
They probably did the same thing with Osama Bin Laden. They probably got him a long time ago, and are just waiting for the next election before releasing the news that they have captured or killed him.
Two wrongs can make a right. Our police officers are expected to speed, in order to catch those that are speeding. Through the police officer's "wrong" he is able to stop the other person's "wrong." Similarly, if a criminal has decided to kidnap a person and lock them in a basement, our police will kidnap the criminal and lock him up as well.
The U.S. army deserves to be chastized when they do something wrong, but they also deserve praise when they do something right.
The purpose of an army is to break things and kill people. When they do this to the right things and people, and make the world a better place for us, they deserve praise. When they break the wrong things and kill the wrong people, they deserve to be chastized.
Al Z. seems to be one of the right people to kill. Thus, it would seem that the military deserves praise for killing him.
Of course, as was pointed out by other web sites, Al Z. was actually killed long ago and had been sitting in a freezer for a long time. They just brought him out now to distract people from the failure to do anything about illegal immigration.
They probably did the same thing with Osama Bin Laden. They probably got him a long time ago, and are just waiting for the next election before releasing the news that they have captured or killed him.
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