Forums > Social Discussion > pro-ana anorexia as a lifestyle
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
ive recently been reading somthing positive (a web comic) and they mentioned pro-ana - intrigued i did some research and found this is it just me or is this slightly wrong?
i also saw this in the philosophy section of the and it made me laugh
murder is a good thing then?
even better is the "know thine enemy page" in which i found this quote
now i havnt done biology or food studies etc for a while but im pretty sure carbs in some form are needed...
ive recently been reading somthing positive (a web comic) and they mentioned pro-ana - intrigued i did some research and found this is it just me or is this slightly wrong?
i also saw this in the philosophy section of the and it made me laugh
Written by: plague angel
Don't believe everything you are told ... by anyone.
... question everything ...
... do your own research ...
... form your own conclusions ...
If the majority believes it, it is probably wrong.
murder is a good thing then?
even better is the "know thine enemy page" in which i found this quote
Written by: plague angel
While it is true that fiber is an important part of your diet, even necessary to protect you from some diseases, carbohydrates themselves are not necessary. There are "essential" fatty acids and "essential" amino acids (from protein), however there are no known essential carbohydrates.
now i havnt done biology or food studies etc for a while but im pretty sure carbs in some form are needed...
back
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Posted:
I would think a large pecentage of people suffereing don't have an addiction to food, more a fear of it.
By overcomming their 'addiction' they're in turn killing themselves.
I know plenty of people who have the willpower not to smoke, be lazy, or succumb to peer pressure - and they do that just fine without running the risk of damaging their bodies.
"...or subcoming to the opinions of anaphobes."
That was a slyly placed comment which held no relevance in your statemant what-so-ever - only there to put my opinion down.
If you're anorexic I think that you'd be pretty much immune to 'anaphobe' opinions as you're practising anorexia!
However, if a person suffering from ana reads my 'phobic' opinions and it stops them practising, then I'd be pretty happy
I would think a large pecentage of people suffereing don't have an addiction to food, more a fear of it.
By overcomming their 'addiction' they're in turn killing themselves.
I know plenty of people who have the willpower not to smoke, be lazy, or succumb to peer pressure - and they do that just fine without running the risk of damaging their bodies.
"...or subcoming to the opinions of anaphobes."
That was a slyly placed comment which held no relevance in your statemant what-so-ever - only there to put my opinion down.
If you're anorexic I think that you'd be pretty much immune to 'anaphobe' opinions as you're practising anorexia!
However, if a person suffering from ana reads my 'phobic' opinions and it stops them practising, then I'd be pretty happy
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
I don't favor the media telling kids it is cool to rollerblade, as I know firsthand that this can lead to serious injury, and it kills.
Her website clearly states that she is in favor of anarexia only for people who choose it voluntarily as a lifestyle, and are in control of it. She also says that her site is for resonsible adults only, so she's not encouraging it for 6 and 7 year olds. She is not encouraging people to die from it.
What if she did? Could This plus this equal this? We already know that it equals this.
Written by: jo_rhymes
Patriarch917, what you're saying astounds me. Anorexia is termed a "disorder" as it kills. It is an illness. It is fatal.
The website you just posted above clearly states it's in favour of euthanasia for terminally ill patients only. I am whole heartedly in favour of euthanasia. What I'm not in favour of, is young girls, as young as 6 or 7, starving themselves because the media is telling them they are too thin, and then dying.
I dont think this is ignorance or intolerance on my part, correct me if i'm wrong
I don't favor the media telling kids it is cool to rollerblade, as I know firsthand that this can lead to serious injury, and it kills.
Her website clearly states that she is in favor of anarexia only for people who choose it voluntarily as a lifestyle, and are in control of it. She also says that her site is for resonsible adults only, so she's not encouraging it for 6 and 7 year olds. She is not encouraging people to die from it.
What if she did? Could This plus this equal this? We already know that it equals this.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Posted:
Are there any controls on her website to stop kids going on it? Nope.
Parental advisory on the interenet aside, there is nothing to stop a 10 year old girl having these anorexic ideas in her head, go searching on the interenet and come across her website, along with forums encouring and giving her support on how to not eat for days on end.
Are there any controls on her website to stop kids going on it? Nope.
Parental advisory on the interenet aside, there is nothing to stop a 10 year old girl having these anorexic ideas in her head, go searching on the interenet and come across her website, along with forums encouring and giving her support on how to not eat for days on end.
GOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Posted:
Patriarch - I am both gay (as you well know) and have been bulimic. I can tell you now that they are definitely not the same thing. Homosexuality is not personal choice but something I accepted as being part of me. It is something that won't kill me. Most arguements to the contrary like disease and lack of procreation can be applied to heterosexual relationships.
Now having suffered from Bulimia Nervosa I can tell you that an eating disorder is not healthy nor - when in the later stages - a choice. It is very much akin to addiction that takes over every aspect of your life. You gorge yourself on food to make yourself feel better but will be terrified that you will become fat because of it so you expel it using various methods. It is differenct from anorexia but having your WHOLE LIFE revolve around food and how it affects the way you look is nothing short of debilitating.
I admire those who fast for Religious reasons to prove their devotion to their God but they will know that once the time to fast is over - like Ramadan (sp) they will go back to eating healthly.
For Anorexics the fasting is a way of life - to live in the fear that an ounce of food will permanetly distort them and make them appear unattractve. The fear of food will actually have the adverse effect make them look like the starving people in Ethiopia. I mean look at Karen Carpenter! You can't look at her and tell me that promoting anorexia is a healthy choice!
The difference between this and religious fasting they're doing it so that they can worship themselves. It's not just the subject of food. It's their outlook on life - that being beautiful and thin is all that matters. That to be larger than a size 8 is to be less than human. You mentioned that we are being intolerant of other people's cultures and what they deem as beautiful but this movement, looking at the quotes from their site is promoting EXACTLY THAT. Should we bring back foot-binding and corsets?
The bottom line is that these sites are promoting the idea that beauty is all that matters and think almost nothing of slowly killing yourself to achieve it.
Patriarch - I am both gay (as you well know) and have been bulimic. I can tell you now that they are definitely not the same thing. Homosexuality is not personal choice but something I accepted as being part of me. It is something that won't kill me. Most arguements to the contrary like disease and lack of procreation can be applied to heterosexual relationships.
Now having suffered from Bulimia Nervosa I can tell you that an eating disorder is not healthy nor - when in the later stages - a choice. It is very much akin to addiction that takes over every aspect of your life. You gorge yourself on food to make yourself feel better but will be terrified that you will become fat because of it so you expel it using various methods. It is differenct from anorexia but having your WHOLE LIFE revolve around food and how it affects the way you look is nothing short of debilitating.
I admire those who fast for Religious reasons to prove their devotion to their God but they will know that once the time to fast is over - like Ramadan (sp) they will go back to eating healthly.
For Anorexics the fasting is a way of life - to live in the fear that an ounce of food will permanetly distort them and make them appear unattractve. The fear of food will actually have the adverse effect make them look like the starving people in Ethiopia. I mean look at Karen Carpenter! You can't look at her and tell me that promoting anorexia is a healthy choice!
The difference between this and religious fasting they're doing it so that they can worship themselves. It's not just the subject of food. It's their outlook on life - that being beautiful and thin is all that matters. That to be larger than a size 8 is to be less than human. You mentioned that we are being intolerant of other people's cultures and what they deem as beautiful but this movement, looking at the quotes from their site is promoting EXACTLY THAT. Should we bring back foot-binding and corsets?
The bottom line is that these sites are promoting the idea that beauty is all that matters and think almost nothing of slowly killing yourself to achieve it.
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Rollerblading is an outdoor activity that is safe when wearing a helmet and pads. It's healthy, you're getting exercise, going out in the open air.
"practicing anorexia as a lifestyle" is a ridiculous concept.
Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis, not a lifestyle.
I have clinical depression, it doesnt mean I'm practicing it as a lifestyle!
Rollerblading is an outdoor activity that is safe when wearing a helmet and pads. It's healthy, you're getting exercise, going out in the open air.
"practicing anorexia as a lifestyle" is a ridiculous concept.
Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis, not a lifestyle.
I have clinical depression, it doesnt mean I'm practicing it as a lifestyle!
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i realise there's little point in a rebuttal since you never seen to respond, preferring instead to just state more increasingly non-sensical arguments until we get bored pointing out the inconsistencies in them.
still, in the hope of a balanced discussion i will respond.
first of all, who is she?
the pro-ana movement is bigger than one person with one website.
secondly, i contest your point that the distinction between the behaviour of an anorxic person and someone that has chosen to be pro-ana is clearly made on pro-ana websites.
thirdly, that distinction is useless to a sufferer of the disorder.
someone in the early stage of the disorder may see pro-ana as a confirmation that what they feel compelled to do is both safe and their own choice.
bottom line is that many suffers of anorexia read these sites and may well not get help for their disorder, exacerbate it and possibly end up ill or dead beacause of the ridiculous claims the pro-ana's make.
of course its hard to starve yourself if you don't have an eating disorder!
its also really hard to smoke 40 cigarettes a day if you are not a smoker, or drink a litre of vodka every dasy when you are not an alcoholic
if you do do these things by choice, you will most likely end up with anorexia, alcoholism or nicotine dependence anyway - you are in essence nurturing a disorder.
i actually agree with you that if you choose to starve yourself for no particluar reason at all, you are a bit weird but have that right to choose what to do to your own body.
but after a significant period (6 months +) being able to objectively define what is done by choice and what is done as a result of a learned disorder becomes almost impossible anyway.
but i put it to you that most pro-ana website visitors do not eat miniscule amounts of food because they have amazing willpower - they do so because they suffer from a disorder.
the site qualifies what these sufferers are doing and makes them feel that their actions are dictated by their supreme willpower.
worse, those that do actually choose the pro-ana 'lifestyle' will very likely up with the disorder - especially those that have a mild form of the disorder already (who i would imagine are the primary demographic for the websites).
and on the suicide side of things, neon shaolin was blatently referring to groups such as alt.suicide.holiday, alt.suicide.methods - the topics discussed there are a world apart from discussions on assisted suicide and euthansia.
cole. x
i realise there's little point in a rebuttal since you never seen to respond, preferring instead to just state more increasingly non-sensical arguments until we get bored pointing out the inconsistencies in them.
still, in the hope of a balanced discussion i will respond.
Written by: pat
She draws a clear difference between those that are involuntarily anarexic (can't help themselves because of mental problems), and those that voluntarily choose it as an alternative lifestyle.
first of all, who is she?
the pro-ana movement is bigger than one person with one website.
secondly, i contest your point that the distinction between the behaviour of an anorxic person and someone that has chosen to be pro-ana is clearly made on pro-ana websites.
thirdly, that distinction is useless to a sufferer of the disorder.
someone in the early stage of the disorder may see pro-ana as a confirmation that what they feel compelled to do is both safe and their own choice.
bottom line is that many suffers of anorexia read these sites and may well not get help for their disorder, exacerbate it and possibly end up ill or dead beacause of the ridiculous claims the pro-ana's make.
Written by: pat
To ignore your body's wish to indulge takes a tremendous amount of willpower when done voluntarily, as she points out. By practicing such self control in the area of eating, she has developed skills that can be applied in other areas of life.
of course its hard to starve yourself if you don't have an eating disorder!
its also really hard to smoke 40 cigarettes a day if you are not a smoker, or drink a litre of vodka every dasy when you are not an alcoholic
if you do do these things by choice, you will most likely end up with anorexia, alcoholism or nicotine dependence anyway - you are in essence nurturing a disorder.
i actually agree with you that if you choose to starve yourself for no particluar reason at all, you are a bit weird but have that right to choose what to do to your own body.
but after a significant period (6 months +) being able to objectively define what is done by choice and what is done as a result of a learned disorder becomes almost impossible anyway.
but i put it to you that most pro-ana website visitors do not eat miniscule amounts of food because they have amazing willpower - they do so because they suffer from a disorder.
the site qualifies what these sufferers are doing and makes them feel that their actions are dictated by their supreme willpower.
worse, those that do actually choose the pro-ana 'lifestyle' will very likely up with the disorder - especially those that have a mild form of the disorder already (who i would imagine are the primary demographic for the websites).
and on the suicide side of things, neon shaolin was blatently referring to groups such as alt.suicide.holiday, alt.suicide.methods - the topics discussed there are a world apart from discussions on assisted suicide and euthansia.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
if you had stated in the first place that you are arguing under the assumption that every person that subscribes to pro-ana are those that used to actually have an eating disorder that is the OPPOSITE of anorexia (i.e binge disorder or 'food addiction' as you put it), we could have saved a lot of time here.
cole. x
Written by: Patriarch917
I would think, first of all, that someone mentaly strong enough overcome an addiction to food could easily resist negative peer pressure, temptation to smoke, laziness, or subcoming to the opinions of anaphobes.
if you had stated in the first place that you are arguing under the assumption that every person that subscribes to pro-ana are those that used to actually have an eating disorder that is the OPPOSITE of anorexia (i.e binge disorder or 'food addiction' as you put it), we could have saved a lot of time here.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Posted:
The websites regarding and promoting Suicide are FAR from the Euthenasia website you put on. The sites aside from giving you tips on say 'The Quickest/Least Painfully/Least Messy' methods of taking your own life, telling you its OK to do so instead of helping you to sort out whatever problems have led you there in the first place.
I know of at least one but I'm sure there will have been many others who have taken advice from these sites and are now dead. And the sites themselves should be held accountable for helping end the life of a young person instead of telling them to seek guidance and professional help. Either from GPs, psychiatrists, priests, even their friends and family....
These sites are VERY similar to the Pro-ana sites as I advocates a damaging 'solution' to the problem instead of assessing and sorting out the source of problems.
The websites regarding and promoting Suicide are FAR from the Euthenasia website you put on. The sites aside from giving you tips on say 'The Quickest/Least Painfully/Least Messy' methods of taking your own life, telling you its OK to do so instead of helping you to sort out whatever problems have led you there in the first place.
I know of at least one but I'm sure there will have been many others who have taken advice from these sites and are now dead. And the sites themselves should be held accountable for helping end the life of a young person instead of telling them to seek guidance and professional help. Either from GPs, psychiatrists, priests, even their friends and family....
These sites are VERY similar to the Pro-ana sites as I advocates a damaging 'solution' to the problem instead of assessing and sorting out the source of problems.
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
I think that the pro-ana claims are disturbing and delusional.
But they should still be allowed to communicate their weird ideals and have that way of communication.
There is infinitely more disturbing material that can be found on the web - pro-handgun lobbies, cam girl sites, fascist propaganda, and I dont think censorship is the answer.
What is worrying is not the existence of pro-ana sites, but the way that these sites present eating disorders as an alternative lifestyle choice.
Have you noticed the horrific irony of women rendering themselves weaker in the name of strength?
I think that the pro-ana claims are disturbing and delusional.
But they should still be allowed to communicate their weird ideals and have that way of communication.
There is infinitely more disturbing material that can be found on the web - pro-handgun lobbies, cam girl sites, fascist propaganda, and I dont think censorship is the answer.
What is worrying is not the existence of pro-ana sites, but the way that these sites present eating disorders as an alternative lifestyle choice.
Have you noticed the horrific irony of women rendering themselves weaker in the name of strength?
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
This reaks of Dom v. Ray Phule... do a search, this has been done.
Pat never responds to logic, haven't you noticed that by now? It's like his kriptonite.
Written by: coleman
i realise there's little point in a rebuttal since you never seen to respond, preferring instead to just state more increasingly non-sensical arguments until we get bored pointing out the inconsistencies in them.
This reaks of Dom v. Ray Phule... do a search, this has been done.
Pat never responds to logic, haven't you noticed that by now? It's like his kriptonite.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
I wonder if ana is really an attempt to impose some sort of control on a life that the sufferer feels is out of control, and the "social pressure to be thin" is really more of an excuse?
As to the 6 and 7 year olds. Would someone of that age have the capability to actually research and understand ana as topic? I know when I was that age, it was a time for Dick and Jane, and see Spot run. I wouldn't have understood it, even if mommy had been reading it to me.
Jo,,,irony noted.
I wonder if ana is really an attempt to impose some sort of control on a life that the sufferer feels is out of control, and the "social pressure to be thin" is really more of an excuse?
As to the 6 and 7 year olds. Would someone of that age have the capability to actually research and understand ana as topic? I know when I was that age, it was a time for Dick and Jane, and see Spot run. I wouldn't have understood it, even if mommy had been reading it to me.
Jo,,,irony noted.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Thanks Cole for writing what I was trying to say but finding nice-sounding words for it (and what I then didn't write in the end because of what NYC pointed out so rightly).
Sauerkraut? Firebreathing? Pat, how many anorexics do you actually know? Do you realise their willpower would have to be invested not in stopping to eat, but in stopping to stop eating?
You've said in a thread a while ago that to you HoP discussions are practice for law school. I think with how you repeatedly ignore what people are saying, and what the real problem is, you should be one of the people that sues microwave companies for not putting "don't heat the dog" stickers on their products
Thanks Cole for writing what I was trying to say but finding nice-sounding words for it (and what I then didn't write in the end because of what NYC pointed out so rightly).
Sauerkraut? Firebreathing? Pat, how many anorexics do you actually know? Do you realise their willpower would have to be invested not in stopping to eat, but in stopping to stop eating?
You've said in a thread a while ago that to you HoP discussions are practice for law school. I think with how you repeatedly ignore what people are saying, and what the real problem is, you should be one of the people that sues microwave companies for not putting "don't heat the dog" stickers on their products
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
I missed that one, suddenly it becomes much clearer.
Looks to me that he is deliberately taking idiotic view points to practice argueing. Think it through, either he is most irrational, closeminded and bigoted person any of us have ever met or he is trolling. Personally my money goes on a mixture of the two.
p.s Neon_Shaolin, I love that avatar.
Written by: Birgit
You've said in a thread a while ago that to you HoP discussions are practice for law school. I think with how you repeatedly ignore what people are saying, and what the real problem is, you should be one of the people that sues microwave companies for not putting "don't heat the dog" stickers on their products
I missed that one, suddenly it becomes much clearer.
Looks to me that he is deliberately taking idiotic view points to practice argueing. Think it through, either he is most irrational, closeminded and bigoted person any of us have ever met or he is trolling. Personally my money goes on a mixture of the two.
p.s Neon_Shaolin, I love that avatar.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
You know, that comment has kept me guessing for quite a while now. Every time I read a Patriarch post. I wonder if I'm reading the man or the Lawyer. It doesn't really matter to me though, I'm open minded enough to accept both Christians and Lawyers.
A troll? I doubt it very much.
You know, that comment has kept me guessing for quite a while now. Every time I read a Patriarch post. I wonder if I'm reading the man or the Lawyer. It doesn't really matter to me though, I'm open minded enough to accept both Christians and Lawyers.
A troll? I doubt it very much.
BRONZE Member
I invented the decaffinated coffee table.
453 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
I invented the decaffinated coffee table.
453 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posted:
Patriach. Do you agree with the ana sites that there is no such thing as too thin?
Are you aware of the body dismophic disorder suffered from people who have eating disorders?
Do you understand the extent of low self-esteem suffered from people with eating disorders?
Are you aware that some research suggests that 1 in 10 people diagnosed with anorexia dies?
Can you not see that these things together are just the tip of the iceberg that suggests that people with anorexia and bulimia cannot have a realistic view of themselves and the world?
And you think that someone with this illness is able to make a "voluntary" "lifestyle" choice?
Have you actually done any research on eating disorders to back up your opinions? It seems that you really don't understand the disorder. I would advise you to look into the subject before you firmly hold opinions on it and lambast others (anaphobics? For goodness sake) for their more measured points of view.
Rant over
Sod this, I'm going to spin.
Marco - which ClinPsy course are you on?
Patriach. Do you agree with the ana sites that there is no such thing as too thin?
Are you aware of the body dismophic disorder suffered from people who have eating disorders?
Do you understand the extent of low self-esteem suffered from people with eating disorders?
Are you aware that some research suggests that 1 in 10 people diagnosed with anorexia dies?
Can you not see that these things together are just the tip of the iceberg that suggests that people with anorexia and bulimia cannot have a realistic view of themselves and the world?
And you think that someone with this illness is able to make a "voluntary" "lifestyle" choice?
Have you actually done any research on eating disorders to back up your opinions? It seems that you really don't understand the disorder. I would advise you to look into the subject before you firmly hold opinions on it and lambast others (anaphobics? For goodness sake) for their more measured points of view.
Rant over
Sod this, I'm going to spin.
Marco - which ClinPsy course are you on?
Boo x
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
If it costs "a penny for your thoughts", but people give you their "two-pence worth", who is getting the extra penny?
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
i think the main problem with the pro-ana movement is at what point it becomes an illness..... either mentally or physically
i would assume it gets classed as a physical illness when the danger to the body becomes considerable - ie when there is not fat left to burn for energy so other tissues are brocken down
as for mentally it depends at what point a habit becomes a psycological addiction. in this way it isnt comparible to say nicotine - there is no physically addictive element to anorexia (quite the opposite really
as for the stats on 7 year olds dieting i would actually lay a fair degree of blaim on the parents. at that age most kids dont really think about their own weight etc (at least in my expierence) unless bullying is occuring but in that case its different. i would say what is more likely is that at about 7 a lot of young girls (and boys) want to start acting really grown up - and whats mummy doing? dieting maybe?...
i think the main problem with the pro-ana movement is at what point it becomes an illness..... either mentally or physically
i would assume it gets classed as a physical illness when the danger to the body becomes considerable - ie when there is not fat left to burn for energy so other tissues are brocken down
as for mentally it depends at what point a habit becomes a psycological addiction. in this way it isnt comparible to say nicotine - there is no physically addictive element to anorexia (quite the opposite really
as for the stats on 7 year olds dieting i would actually lay a fair degree of blaim on the parents. at that age most kids dont really think about their own weight etc (at least in my expierence) unless bullying is occuring but in that case its different. i would say what is more likely is that at about 7 a lot of young girls (and boys) want to start acting really grown up - and whats mummy doing? dieting maybe?...
back
BRONZE Member
I invented the decaffinated coffee table.
453 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
I invented the decaffinated coffee table.
453 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posted:
Linden Rathen, at the following point, from a mental health point of view, it becomes a mental illness and is no longer a "habit" (in the same way that, for example, obsessively tidying is considered not considered to be a habit, but instead is termed OCD, with a similar set of DSM criteria):
Linden Rathen, at the following point, from a mental health point of view, it becomes a mental illness and is no longer a "habit" (in the same way that, for example, obsessively tidying is considered not considered to be a habit, but instead is termed OCD, with a similar set of DSM criteria):
Written by: DSM-IV Criteria for Anorexia Nervosa
1. Refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and height (eg, weight loss leading to maintenance of body weight less than 85% of that expected or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth, leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected).
2. Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight.
3. Disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body weight or shape on self-evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current low body weight.
4. In postmenarchal females, amenorrhea ie, the absence of at least three consecutive cycles. (A woman is considered to have amenorrhea if her periods occur only following hormone, eg, estrogen administration.)
Specify type:
* Restricting Type: During the current episode of anorexia nervosa, the person has not regularly engaged in binge-eating or purging behavior (ie, self-induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics, or enemas).
* Binge-Eating/Purging Type: During the current episode of anorexia nervosa, the person has regularly engaged in binge-eating or purging behavior (ie, self-induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics, or enemas).
Boo x
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
If it costs "a penny for your thoughts", but people give you their "two-pence worth", who is getting the extra penny?
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
That's the problem with mental health issues. It appears to be voluntary.
Now, I can assure that starving oneself to death is not a healthy, psysiologic state. There are rare extreme cases of very motivated people (political prisoners, for example) who are capable of starving themselves to death without having a disorder, per se. But anorexics have a distorted self-image that causes a wasting disease.
When the compulsive behavior starts to cause physical harm, it's hard to justify it as voluntary.
Written by: Patriarch917
She draws a clear difference between those that are involuntarily anarexic (can't help themselves because of mental problems), and those that voluntarily choose it as an alternative lifestyle. One can take a neutral thing, such as poi, and turn it into an addiction or a compulsion which could rightly be classified as a mental disorder. However, the issue is with the addiction, not with the action itself. While she seems to agree with you that being ED-ana is bad, she has chosen to voluntarily live a lifestyle of frugality and body sculpting.
That's the problem with mental health issues. It appears to be voluntary.
Now, I can assure that starving oneself to death is not a healthy, psysiologic state. There are rare extreme cases of very motivated people (political prisoners, for example) who are capable of starving themselves to death without having a disorder, per se. But anorexics have a distorted self-image that causes a wasting disease.
When the compulsive behavior starts to cause physical harm, it's hard to justify it as voluntary.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
So your theory is that she isn't doing this voluntarily, but is really just trying to justify her disorder as an "alternative lifestyle?"
Have you considered the theory that the site is merely the darkest of dark satire? Notice how she uses anti-anorexia images as "thinspiration."
I wouldn't dwell on these theories. Calling someone "crazy" or accusing them of not really believing what they seem to advocate is a lazy way to argue.
So your theory is that she isn't doing this voluntarily, but is really just trying to justify her disorder as an "alternative lifestyle?"
Have you considered the theory that the site is merely the darkest of dark satire? Notice how she uses anti-anorexia images as "thinspiration."
I wouldn't dwell on these theories. Calling someone "crazy" or accusing them of not really believing what they seem to advocate is a lazy way to argue.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
It could be satire, but the thing is that these pro-ana, pro-mia sites are so common... They can't all be satire.
And if we're never allowed to call someone mentally ill, then how do we identify those who really are?
It could be satire, but the thing is that these pro-ana, pro-mia sites are so common... They can't all be satire.
And if we're never allowed to call someone mentally ill, then how do we identify those who really are?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
I never said never, I just said not to dwell on it.
There are too many good ways to refute her site than to just dismiss her as mentally ill.
I never said never, I just said not to dwell on it.
There are too many good ways to refute her site than to just dismiss her as mentally ill.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Fine, how about criminal then Patriarch.
Let's suppose that she is being satirical. People who are mentally ill become addicted to these sites. They use them, and some of the "hints" and "tips" contained within to perpetuate their already unhealthy activities.
These sites, whether intending to or not, help people to die.
That is the issue...and there is absolutely no humor in it, dark or otherwise.
Fine, how about criminal then Patriarch.
Let's suppose that she is being satirical. People who are mentally ill become addicted to these sites. They use them, and some of the "hints" and "tips" contained within to perpetuate their already unhealthy activities.
These sites, whether intending to or not, help people to die.
That is the issue...and there is absolutely no humor in it, dark or otherwise.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i agree - why don't you venture to post some then?
as far as i can tell, there's no point typing measured and coherent arguments out since you simply ignore them and choose instead to argue against the ones you find it easiest to
taking on the persona of a poor man's devil's advocate on an internet discussion forum under the guise "i wanna be a lawyer" doesn't make any sense at all to me i'm afraid, especially when discussing issues as serious as this one.
maybe its just me, and i apologise if that's the case, but i'm pretty sure johnnie cochran didn't get to where he got to by talking sh*t on a poi swinging internet forum
cole. x
Written by: Patriarch917
There are too many good ways to refute her site than to just dismiss her as mentally ill.
i agree - why don't you venture to post some then?
as far as i can tell, there's no point typing measured and coherent arguments out since you simply ignore them and choose instead to argue against the ones you find it easiest to
taking on the persona of a poor man's devil's advocate on an internet discussion forum under the guise "i wanna be a lawyer" doesn't make any sense at all to me i'm afraid, especially when discussing issues as serious as this one.
maybe its just me, and i apologise if that's the case, but i'm pretty sure johnnie cochran didn't get to where he got to by talking sh*t on a poi swinging internet forum
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
for all that missed it back then...
So for practicing saying opinions that are exactly the opposite of what most people on here say, think and can back up with facts, good sources and reliable information, you've been doing really really well. I'd give an A for that.
For CONVINCING anyone with even a vague idea of most of the subjects you've been arguing, unfortunately it'd have to be a fail mark. Maybe it'll work with a jury in a case where there is lots of doubt and not much information available.
But part of being a lawyer is also to impress people with your personality. You won't do any client any favour if you come across so arrogant, ignorant of facts and just out to shout your point of view that the people who decide take an instant dislike to you, and thus your client.
for all that missed it back then...
Written by: patriarch
I have long since resolved not to be concerned about sounding arrogant. Any time you confidently state something, even if it is merely a fact, someone is likely to think you sound a bit arrogant. This is even more true with an opinion.
My career is going to be built upon confidently telling people facts and oppinions that are exactly opposite what the lawyers for the opposition will say.
So for practicing saying opinions that are exactly the opposite of what most people on here say, think and can back up with facts, good sources and reliable information, you've been doing really really well. I'd give an A for that.
For CONVINCING anyone with even a vague idea of most of the subjects you've been arguing, unfortunately it'd have to be a fail mark. Maybe it'll work with a jury in a case where there is lots of doubt and not much information available.
But part of being a lawyer is also to impress people with your personality. You won't do any client any favour if you come across so arrogant, ignorant of facts and just out to shout your point of view that the people who decide take an instant dislike to you, and thus your client.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i agree.
in a courtroom, you cannot pick and choose to argue just the aspects of the case that suit you and ignore any arguments that you do not have a rebuttal for.
verification of sources, clarification of poorly expresssed arguments and even identification of subjects (not required if proper english is observed) all seem to be irrelevant issues compared to what patriarch apparently thinks is the most important aspect of being a lawyer - stating his opinion as often and as strongly as he knows how.
but what do i know - i've only worked for this firm for four years...
cole. x
[edited so that it makes sense - cheers birgit
]
Written by: Birgit
for practicing saying opinions that are exactly the opposite of what most people on here say, think and can back up with facts, good sources and reliable information, you've been doing really really well.
i agree.
in a courtroom, you cannot pick and choose to argue just the aspects of the case that suit you and ignore any arguments that you do not have a rebuttal for.
verification of sources, clarification of poorly expresssed arguments and even identification of subjects (not required if proper english is observed) all seem to be irrelevant issues compared to what patriarch apparently thinks is the most important aspect of being a lawyer - stating his opinion as often and as strongly as he knows how.
but what do i know - i've only worked for this firm for four years...
cole. x
[edited so that it makes sense - cheers birgit
] "i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I never said he'd stand any chance in a courtroom, just that he's been practicing saying opposites quite well
I never said he'd stand any chance in a courtroom, just that he's been practicing saying opposites quite well
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
ooh, sorry - misread you there birgit
i thought you said those opposites also contained of good information with reliable, identified sources but upon reading again, you clearly did not say anything of the sort.
i have changed me post slightly
cole. x
ooh, sorry - misread you there birgit
i thought you said those opposites also contained of good information with reliable, identified sources but upon reading again, you clearly did not say anything of the sort.
i have changed me post slightly
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
um... on topic please?
Doc - i think there is something slightly wrong with saying that you cant make pro-ana as a lifestyle choise - its not a good lifestyle but i think it is possible to willfulyl starve yourself. as the only way of telling if its an obsessive disorder is by gauging how addicted to the lifestyle the person is then it becomes very subjective
an obsessive person will most likely claim that they are doing it of their own free will as apposed to it being a compulsion
but someone who really does want to starve themselves will also claim its of their own free will.
you can only tell the difference when they both decide to stop. for someone who expeirences anorexia as a compulsion that compulsion will be very hard to break
if 'anorexia' is chosen then moving back to eating will require a lot less will power and again would be a choise
i hope this makes some sence - it did in my head. (and no this isnt a defence of the site i still think its wrong)
um... on topic please?
Doc - i think there is something slightly wrong with saying that you cant make pro-ana as a lifestyle choise - its not a good lifestyle but i think it is possible to willfulyl starve yourself. as the only way of telling if its an obsessive disorder is by gauging how addicted to the lifestyle the person is then it becomes very subjective
an obsessive person will most likely claim that they are doing it of their own free will as apposed to it being a compulsion
but someone who really does want to starve themselves will also claim its of their own free will.
you can only tell the difference when they both decide to stop. for someone who expeirences anorexia as a compulsion that compulsion will be very hard to break
if 'anorexia' is chosen then moving back to eating will require a lot less will power and again would be a choise
i hope this makes some sence - it did in my head. (and no this isnt a defence of the site i still think its wrong
) back
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
fair enough
the doc didn't quite say that a healthy individual can't make the pro-ana lifestyle choice, but rather that it very difficult to differentiate between someone that has made such a choice voluntarily and someone that has the disorder and is in a complex form of denial.
add to that the fact that the pro-ana way of living is based around intentional malnutrition which causes inevitable damage to health and its sole object is to achieve a certain appearance, the mental state of a person that makes such a choice can easily be called into question.
we got this far a page ago:
that's the problem with all disorders - it is easy for an individual to qualify them as their own free choice (occasionally admitting an element of 'habit' is involved) yet its very hard to differentiate between prescribed choice and a disorder if the person is not prepared to demonstrate that they have the ability to not make the choice.
i think that, unless the use of substances or the exhibiting of behaviour related to disorders are practiced in moderation, then there is no practical diffrence between the actual disorder and the 'prescribed choices' that imitate said disorder.
cole. x
fair enough the doc didn't quite say that a healthy individual can't make the pro-ana lifestyle choice, but rather that it very difficult to differentiate between someone that has made such a choice voluntarily and someone that has the disorder and is in a complex form of denial.
add to that the fact that the pro-ana way of living is based around intentional malnutrition which causes inevitable damage to health and its sole object is to achieve a certain appearance, the mental state of a person that makes such a choice can easily be called into question.
we got this far a page ago:
Written by: coleman
i actually agree with you [patriarch###] that if you choose to starve yourself for no particluar reason at all, you may be a bit weird but have the right to choose what to do to your own body.
but after a significant period (6 months +) being able to objectively define what is done by choice and what is done as a result of a learned disorder becomes almost impossible anyway.
but i put it to you that most pro-ana website visitors do not eat miniscule amounts of food because they have amazing willpower - they do so because they suffer from a disorder.
Written by: linden rathen
you can only tell the difference when they both decide to stop. for someone who expeirences anorexia as a compulsion that compulsion will be very hard to break
if 'anorexia' is chosen then moving back to eating will require a lot less will power and again would be a choise
that's the problem with all disorders - it is easy for an individual to qualify them as their own free choice (occasionally admitting an element of 'habit' is involved) yet its very hard to differentiate between prescribed choice and a disorder if the person is not prepared to demonstrate that they have the ability to not make the choice.
i think that, unless the use of substances or the exhibiting of behaviour related to disorders are practiced in moderation, then there is no practical diffrence between the actual disorder and the 'prescribed choices' that imitate said disorder.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
yes, it is willingly possible to starve yourself. I have done it. Both short term and longer term. And when it did it longer term "i didn't have an eating disorder" at the time...but looking back on it, oh I was so very borderline one and I am grateful it never got worse than what it was.
Written by: linden rathen
i think it is possible to willfulyl starve yourself.
yes, it is willingly possible to starve yourself. I have done it. Both short term and longer term. And when it did it longer term "i didn't have an eating disorder" at the time...but looking back on it, oh I was so very borderline one and I am grateful it never got worse than what it was.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Similar Topics
Using the keywords [pro ana anorexia lifestyle] we found the following existing topics.
- Forums > pro-ana anorexia as a lifestyle [217 replies]
Show more..
© 1998 - 2024 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com