Written by: plague angel
Don't believe everything you are told ... by anyone.
... question everything ...
... do your own research ...
... form your own conclusions ...
If the majority believes it, it is probably wrong.
Written by: plague angel
While it is true that fiber is an important part of your diet, even necessary to protect you from some diseases, carbohydrates themselves are not necessary. There are "essential" fatty acids and "essential" amino acids (from protein), however there are no known essential carbohydrates.
back
Written by: coleman
there you go again!
you ask for something, i provide it, you move the goalposts
you said "show that her views are irrational and illogical".
i referred you to illogical and irrational views that she has published.
yet, despite the fact that these claims are made in support of her main argument (and hence DO have a bearing on the ratinality of the concept that they support) its still not enough for you
Written by: coleman
showing irrationality or bad logic in her 'core premise' (which you have referred to plenty, but have yet to explicitly define what you consider this premise to actually be) would not prove an illness either so there is no advantage if we were to show that it is illogical or irrational.
Written by: wayne
I have explicitly defined what I consider her core premise to be: that one may choose to starve themselves voluntarily, and not as a result of a mental disorder.
Written by: me
i actually agree with you, that if you choose to starve yourself for no particluar reason at all, you are a bit weird but have that right to choose what to do to your own body.
Written by: wayne
You have pointed out one significant fault with the website. Although she makes a distinction in one place between the disease of anorexia and what she practices, other statements on the site seem to suggest that she believes the disease to be voluntary itself. This is a huge discrepency in her statements.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: colemanWritten by: wayne
I have explicitly defined what I consider her core premise to be: that one may choose to starve themselves voluntarily, and not as a result of a mental disorder.
and i have never contested that.
i clearly stated on page 3 that:Written by: me
i actually agree with you, that if you choose to starve yourself for no particluar reason at all, you are a bit weird but have that right to choose what to do to your own body.
the discussion moved on to why it is very likely that the visitors to her website, and very possibly 'ana' herself, actually are suffering from anorexia and what bearing this has on the moral implications of the website's very existance.
Written by:And
The pendent arguments, such as the argument that children might visit her site despite her intentions, are persuasive enough to justify asking her to take down the site. It seems obvious that her site might encourage those truly suffering from a mental illness to think that there is nothing wrong with them, and that they should seek help. I suspect that most who agree with her were not “normal” eaters who decided to convert from sheer force of will, but rather girls suffering from a debilitating condition taking comfort in someone who seems to be telling them that their weakness is actually a sign of strength.
Written by:
I suspect (especially from reading her emails) that this site is merely her way of justifying her own problem...
Written by: colemanWritten by: wayne
You have pointed out one significant fault with the website. Although she makes a distinction in one place between the disease of anorexia and what she practices, other statements on the site seem to suggest that she believes the disease to be voluntary itself. This is a huge discrepency in her statements.
it is not merely 'a significant fault' - it is a clear statement that shows she considers the disease anorexia to be a lifestyle - and not simply the symptoms of the disease but the disease itself.
Written by: coleman
you think that several examples of contradictory statements regarding her main premise do not sufficiently demonstrate illogical or irrational thought processes?
Written by: coleman
i disagree strongly.
Written by: coleman
i further propose that several examples of irrational and illogical statements within the same publication (website) do indeed call into question the reliability of any other non-supported claims that the author makes.
Written by: coleman
as for her 'statement of fact' regarding fibre and carbs, and your inability to either qualify or disregard it due to your ignorance of what actually constitues a healthy diet (a serious omission when debating a topic that revolves around what constitues healthy eating i would say), please refer to this website and compare their statements with hers regarding the relative importance of the roles of fibre and carbs in a healthy diet.
Written by:
While it is true that fiber is an important part of your diet, even necessary to protect you from some diseases, carbohydrates themselves are not necessary. There are "essential" fatty acids and "essential" amino acids (from protein), however there are no known essential carbohydrates.
Written by: Patriarch917
The statement you refer to:Written by:
While it is true that fiber is an important part of your diet, even necessary to protect you from some diseases, carbohydrates themselves are not necessary. There are "essential" fatty acids and "essential" amino acids (from protein), however there are no known essential carbohydrates.
is a direct quote from a paper entitled “Carbohydrates in Nutrition” featured on Medical-library.net
You can see the statement here:
https://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/carbohydrates_in_nutrition.html
Like I said, I have no way of knowing whether this doctor is telling me the truth or not. I have compared his statement with the mayo clinic site you recommend, and can find no discrepancy.
Check her site again. She does not quote it out of context. She substantially reproduces the entire article, and gives you the source at the bottom of the page so you can check it out for yourself.
No, I do not think you can attribute irrationality or illogic to her because of that statement. She simply and accurately quoted something from what appears to be a knowledgeable authority on the subject.
Written by:
"The more hydrogen atoms that can be strippped from a "fuel" molecule, the more ATP that ultimately can be produced. Carbohydrates are rich in chemical energy because they contain strings of
........|
(H---C---OH) units. . . .
....... |
As the sold building block of both starch and glycogen, clucose is a key molecule in the energy of metabolism of both plants and animals. The free energy released by the complete oxidation of glucose is very large:
C6H1206 + 6O2 ---> 6CO2 + 6 H2O
Delta G = -686 kcal/mol
By Comparison, the free energy required to convert ADP to ATP is relatively small:
ADP + Pi --> ATP + H20
Delta G = +7.2kcal/mol
It is evideant from these numbers that the complete oxidation of a molecule of glucose to CO2 and H2O can release enough energy to produce a large number of ATPs. . . ."
p.107 Karp, Gerald. Cell and Molecular Biology: Concepts and Experiments, 3rd Edition. 2002. John Wiley & Sons Inc.
Written by: DSM-IV Criteria for Anorexia Nervosa
1. Refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and height (eg, weight loss leading to maintenance of body weight less than 85% of that expected or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth, leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected).
2. Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight.
3. Disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body weight or shape on self-evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current low body weight.
4. In postmenarchal females, amenorrhea ie, the absence of at least three consecutive cycles. (A woman is considered to have amenorrhea if her periods occur only following hormone, eg, estrogen administration.)
Written by: DrBoo
[ana] is a mental illness and the girls (usually) on these sites believe that they are masters of their illness, free from the desire to get rid of it.
back
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Boo x
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
If it costs "a penny for your thoughts", but people give you their "two-pence worth", who is getting the extra penny?
Boo x
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
If it costs "a penny for your thoughts", but people give you their "two-pence worth", who is getting the extra penny?
back
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
Written by: jo_rhymes
Does being spiritual make you saner than someone who is starving out of vanity?
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
Written by: Kyrian
Wow, I just read six pages where coleman and pat didn't really disagree about anything except what the important point of the thread was (something linden if *anyone* can answer) and seemed largely unable to notice that fact. And a lot of people responded out of fear.
I'm not sure it was really worth reading six pages
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Written by:
written by faith
it has been present in most (not all) cultures all over the world in different times, just different manifestations
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
Using the keywords [pro ana anorexia lifestyle] we found the following existing topics.