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Forums > Social Discussion > pro-ana anorexia as a lifestyle

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:ive recently been reading somthing positive (a web comic) and they mentioned pro-ana - intrigued i did some research and found this is it just me or is this slightly wrong?



i also saw this in the philosophy section of the and it made me laugh



 Written by: plague angel



Don't believe everything you are told ... by anyone.



... question everything ...

... do your own research ...

... form your own conclusions ...



If the majority believes it, it is probably wrong.





murder is a good thing then? wink



even better is the "know thine enemy page" in which i found this quote



 Written by: plague angel



While it is true that fiber is an important part of your diet, even necessary to protect you from some diseases, carbohydrates themselves are not necessary. There are "essential" fatty acids and "essential" amino acids (from protein), however there are no known essential carbohydrates.







now i havnt done biology or food studies etc for a while but im pretty sure carbs in some form are needed...


back

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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:Flowa hug

Thanks for sharing that, it's never easy to let people get to know that part of you. I suppose there is something theraputic about letting it out into the open.

And also is sharing your experiences lets other people know that they're not alone in their problems it'd be beneficial...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted: Written by: Flowa


its a really hard thing to recover from because unlike alcohol, cigarettes and drugs, you have to eat to live and you cant go cold turkey with food, its a necessity!



I think you're getting it mixed up there... going cold turkey with food IS anorexia, isn't it? So recovering would be going cold turkey on refusing to eat ubblol

(btw, not laughing AT you there - well done for getting out of it!!! I just can't find a better way to put it! I'm neither alcoholic nor anorexic, but as far as I know they're about equally hard to properly recover from...)


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Fireblitz
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Fireblitz

member
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 186
Posted:Ravehead just on the going off your food subject, I may be pointing out the obvious but if you "party" all the time you'll go off your food anyway, I know I do however I'm not suggesting that as a way to lose weight, it just a side effect of "partying", so don't worry too much. Oh and with regard to that site I think it's sick and by that I mean the people who run it are sick, literally, it sounds like they soo sick with anorexia and they can't get better so they want to believe what they're doing is ok, I think it's really sad.
EDITED_BY: french23 (1149608777)


You can only be young once but you can always be immature.

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steaks
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

steaks

former manc tour guide
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1909
Posted:hug hug for both Dave and Flowa, that's tough to admit things like that.

On the subject of the site, I believe them to be evil sites and do nothing to help anyone with an eating disorder. Having suffered from an eating disorder (still not fully over it) I know how hard they are to deal with. I never had issues with the way I looked, but often found it difficult to eat anything more than a small snack infront of others. It's largely undercontrol now, but I occasionally relapse.
Being underweight is still not as big an issue in society as being overweight.

Thanks to Cole for posting such a well informed and constructed comment on the subject above smile hug


Owned by the lovely SNOOPoi
Owner of Clarence_Quack

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Igirisujin
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2666
Posted:I think the people who run these thinsperational websites are getting off on power and enforcing beliefs onto younge people,alot like (well probably just like) feeders (normal weight people who feed people and get them as fat as possible) which is just the most disgusting thing ever, I dont honestly know whats worse pro-anorexia or feeders.

I wish the internet was regulated sometimes, these web sites arnt doing anything to help people what so ever they just harm members, why cant they just get shut down like sites featuring child pornography is beyond me.

On the issue of weight does anyone know where to find somewhere that tells you your ideal body weight for your height? IVe been wanting to figure mine out but the maths usually confuses the hell out me and I give up tongue


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: coleman


for pat:

anorexia nervosa is a well-defined eating disorder, not a dietry choice.
pro-ana is like trying to qualify clinical depression as a lifestyle choice - its idiotic.

if you were unaware of the difference between recreational use of a substance and a substance-related disorder, look it up smile


cole. x



Perfectly said. (Aside from the grammar and punctuation. wink ) hug


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:Steaks - I never knew that about you but again, well done for sharing that... It's good to see that the few people who have admitted to their problem have pretty much gotten over it - unfortunately not unscarred but still feel better about themselves.

Brit Joe - In the vein of the thread I'd like to say you have nothing to worry about. But you do seem worried about it so I'm not gonna cast your plea aside. You could do a search on the internet but the best person to ask on the subject is probably your GP who in person can give advice on any concerns you might have. A website CAN give you general advice in FAQs but to have someone in front of you who you can ask questions and can give HEALTHY advice would be beneficial to what you want...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Flowa


member


Total posts: 43
Posted:birgit - going cold turkey wasn't a good way of putting it! tongue ... What i mean is that you can't just end your relationship with food and eradicate it from your life to get over an eating disorder like you can with drug abuse.

I LOVE MY BRICK!!!

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Flowa


member


Total posts: 43
Posted:also shaolin i agree that its a good thing to share stuff like this smile it can be a massive help to people who think they're alone! And on the plus side, there are also plenty of websites and support groups that offer help and advice on how to recover rather than spiral further into illness.
Jo- what you said about eating normally around your friend when she was worried about eating in public is excellent, sometimes the worst thing you can do is draw attention to it and exacerbate it. (I learned that word off shaun of the dead... its a good word biggrin)


I LOVE MY BRICK!!!

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DrBoo
BRONZE Member since Oct 2005

DrBoo

I invented the decaffinated coffee table.
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom

Total posts: 453
Posted: Written by: Brit_Joe


I wish the internet was regulated sometimes, these web sites arnt doing anything to help people what so ever they just harm members, why cant they just get shut down like sites featuring child pornography is beyond me.



Not too long ago there was a big movement to have these sites taken down, and lots of hosts refused to continue to host them. Of course, it doesn't last long, and they find somewhere else to go instead.
There are similar sites, which are often part of the pro-ana sites, called pro-mia - pro-bulimia nervosa.

It is an interesting phenonemon. I wonder about its emergence as a possible backlash against the idea of sufferes of Anorexia being "victims" (of the media, of a disease, of the diet industry, of society in general). Very interestingly, pro is not used as a word to mean promotion - most sites say that they don't think people should develop eating disorders - but they celebrate having one. They also give each other support and advise on how to be a "good anorexic".

For people who work with, or care for, people with anorexia these sites can pose a real problem. Rather than encouraging people to recover, these sites help and support people to get thinner (although not to die...there is a knife edge that they try to settle on between thin and dead). It gives people support to stay ill when others would want to support them to recover.

But what should be done about it? In terms of censorship, or just closing them down, ethically and morally is it much different than if we tried and censored magazines which tells us which star looked too fat, or too thin, on a beach, or who lost what amount of weight. Or what to eat to lose 7 lbs in 7 days etc etc? Or that to eat nothing but fruit for a week is fine because its called a detox - and you'll lose weight! Magazines and the media constantly tell us that to be fat is undesirable and equated with being out of control and lazy, wheras thinness is about control, power and success.

Not coming up with solutions here, or even my own point of view exactly, just grist for the debate mill.

And I'd add to what others have said. Anorexia Nervosa (and bulimia nervosa) is not a lifestyle choice. It is an illness. And one which has the highest mortality rate of any other mental health illness.


Boo x

I intend to live forever - so far, so good.

If it costs "a penny for your thoughts", but people give you their "two-pence worth", who is getting the extra penny?

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:"Heathy Weight" being the white area....



Pounds vs. Feet/Inches


Non-Https Image Link




Stones vs. Feet/Inches


Non-Https Image Link




Kg vs. Feet/Inches


Non-Https Image Link


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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wonderloey


wonderloey

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates

Total posts: 255
Posted: Written by: From the original link

If we ever completely tapped that potential in our midst, and applied it to other areas outside eating habits and body sculpting, the fact is, we could change the world. Completely.

Maybe even rule it.





If people that profess these pro-ana philosophies spent half the effort they do on controlling their calorie intake, they *would* achieve great things. As it is, they expend inordinate energies on their own physical appearance. If pro-ana proponents DON'T have an eating disorder, they are incredibly selfish - focussing on themselves and their physical appearance to the exclusion of everything else.

Just for the record, no disrespect is intended towards anyone who has/had a genuine eating disorder. But for people to justify anorexic behaviour as some kind of heroic feat - *insert shudder here*


"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman

Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:NYC, those curves aren't entirely correct either, as they don't accurately reflect a BMI.

I was a long time bulemic.
It was not a choice.
It was a symptom to much deeper issues. It is a disease for which there is no cure. On really bad days I *still* have bulemic tendencies and have loved ones who watch me carefully. It can be quite bad and even years later it is really a struggle sometimes.

The fact that anyone regards it as a choice, curable or a lifestyle is really stomach turning and ignorant.

The pro-mia and pro-ana websites have been discussed on here before. It is horrific. Several of them should be banned. Especially the ones which tell way to cheat the mandatory weigh-ins at alot of clinics. The way they help people kill themselves is terrifying.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 4525
Posted: Written by: french23


Oh and with regard to that site I think it's sick and by that I mean the people who run it are sick, literally, it sounds like they soo sick with anorexia and they can't get better so they want to believe what they're doing is ok

ditto


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted: Written by: GnarlyCranium



Kinda, except it's not passed off as okay, because it's not making anybody obscene amounts of money.





A sad reflection of the world in which we live.



According to the graphs, I'm healthy! Yay! A little... pudgy, but ok. However I had a friend who is about 5'6" and he's slightly heavier than me. On the curve, he's unfit. However his bodymass is muscle.



Like Neon Shaolin said: If you think you are unfit, ask your GP first because they know better than any amount of magazines or websites.



Also, in our sociology course:



"If Barbie was a real woman:



She'd have to be 7 feet tall,

Walk on all fours,

Have half a liver and a few inches of intestine,

and be dead soon because of chronic diarrhoea and mal-absorption of nutrients."



"In 1995, Fijian women thought the ideal body shape was plump, round and soft. 38 months after Western television was introduced, eating disorders had gone up by several hundred percent"



Statistics:



50-70% of girls (who are a normal weight) think they are overweight.

3/4 of female actors on TV are underweight.

92 million non-medical cosmetic operations occured in 2004.

In 1970 the average age of a dieting girl was 14. By 1990 it was 8.

After viewing pictures of female models, 7 out of ten women felt more depressed and angry than before viewing the images.

Young girls are more afraid of getting fat than Cancer or losing their parents.



Which only really confirms my point: It's a sad world we live in.



Edit:



 Written by: Pro-Ana Website



People can live without food indefinitely as long as they have water to drink.





What the HELL????

EDITED_BY: Sethis (1149678698)


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Sethis, thanks for those posts. I knew the facts were shocking, but I didnt realise quite how bad it was.

According to the graph I'm wavering between a "healthy" weight and being "overweight".
However, I dont think we should depend on graphs to tell us what we are meant to weigh. smile


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Fireblitz
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Fireblitz

member
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 186
Posted:I think with girls especially, the tv has alot to answer for, oh yeah and women's magazine's too, I saw a magazine last week that was slagging off Charlotte Church on the front page because of her thighs (which look completely normal), now I'm not into women "that way" but I think Charlotte Church is very pretty, the message to most young girls is that the only way to by attractive is to be stick thin, which is so wrong you look alot more attractive when your healthy.

You can only be young once but you can always be immature.

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_Aime_
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4172
Posted: Written by: french23


I saw a magazine last week that was slagging off Charlotte Church on the front page because of her thighs (which look completely normal), now I'm not into women "that way" but I think Charlotte Church is very pretty



I saw that too. I am into girls in 'that way' and Charlotte Church appeals to me more than say Kate Moss would. Shes got, like you said 'normal' thighs. Those type of magazines really make me mad frown


These sights are horrible. It just shows how deluded these people are.

When you can see your bones you look ill. You skin becomes horrible, you look guant and malnourished.

Can you fit any of those descriptions in with Charlotte Church - I think not!


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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 4525
Posted:yeah, loads of celebrity gossip magazines feature "exclusive, Jenifer Aniston has cellulite" or photos of these celebrities trying to enjoy a peaceful holiday but being ridiculed because of not being underweight. it's so stupid, I hate magazines like that so much!! GRRRRR!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:People can't win! One week they'll be slagging off a celebrity for being fat (i.e. normal body propertions) then the next week they'll be slagging off the same celebrity for looking too thin - okay I'm exaggerating but it does happen. No wonder celebrities and the people who read the magazines have no idea where go from there...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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marco


enthusiast
Location: uk

Total posts: 328
Posted:
Having worked with and been involved with self restricting and obsessive eating disorders professionally for around five years I'll comment more on this later, busy now.

clinical psychologist in training


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:To be fair, at the moment there's probably just as many "soandso is too skinny???" headlines out wink

Not that the mags are really that concerned, they probably just want to point out that someone's eating less because of something they have discovered is wrong in their marriage and please buy the magazine to find out more.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:Seems to be a lot of anaphobic opinions out there. I never expected such intolerance for her veiwpoint.



She draws a clear difference between those that are involuntarily anarexic (can't help themselves because of mental problems), and those that voluntarily choose it as an alternative lifestyle. One can take a neutral thing, such as poi, and turn it into an addiction or a compulsion which could rightly be classified as a mental disorder. However, the issue is with the addiction, not with the action itself. While she seems to agree with you that being ED-ana is bad, she has chosen to voluntarily live a lifestyle of frugality and body sculpting.



If she were doing this for religious reasons, I very much doubt that anyone would care about this site. If, for instance, she practiced extreme self denial as part of a meditation regime, to help her understand that physical reality is an illusion that she needs to free herself from, then we would probably all just think that she is a bit queer, not "evil."



She does seem to be developing a comprehensive worldveiw that embraces extreme self control, but it seems pretty secular in nature. I think her main mistake is in the terminology. She used a word - anarexia - that has been historically called a "disorder." Thus, she is now the victim (on this forum, and elsewhere) of a lot of prejudice and hatred. She should have used a different word to describe what she is doing, to distance herself from the poor girls who do the same thing for the wrong reasons.



Imagine, for a moment, that someone were to make up a club or a website promoting being "overweight." Instead of worrying about how society veiws them, they would encourage each other that they can also be useful members of society and don't need to change themselves to fit some artificial "ideal body weight" as defined by graphs that people put out.



The ideal human form, and the "correct" amount to eat, changes over time and from culture to culture. In the past, being overweight has been desirable, a sign of wealth. Now (in America) obesity is a problem with the poorest Americans, while the middle and upper class strive to be thin.



You can call what she is doing a "disease," but that just reflects what you have become accustomed to consider "normal."



One can argue that what she does will adversly affect her health. Does this alone move an action into the "evil" category? I have seen websites out there that promote skateboarding. I know firsthand that this is a dangerous lifestyle choice, where you will be virtually certain to have adverse health affects, and there is a risk of death even when done carefully.



Many "extreme" activities (such as firebreathing) are comparable to eating a very low calorie diet. I am not so quick to jump all over people for how they choose to live their own lives. Eating less food hurts only yourself, if that.



Arguably, she is making the world a better place. There is now more food to go around to all the people that really ARE starving involuntarily. By consuming less, she is drastically limiting her adverse impact on the planet. By living in an extreme manner, she shows all of us gluttons that maybe we really don't need that extra doughnut in the morning. Perhaps we will not take it to the extreme that she does, but she can still inspire people to understand that they can seriously control how they eat.



To ignore your body's wish to indulge takes a tremendous amount of willpower when done voluntarily, as she points out. By practicing such self control in the area of eating, she has developed skills that can be applied in other areas of life.



Fasting is a well established spiritual practice, and is common to many religions. I myself practice it. There are many studies out there proving the healthy benefits of fasting. When taken to the extreme, as she seems to be doing, it can have adverse affects on your body. This seems to her to be an accetable side affect, much as the McDonald's customer may choose to accept being a little more overweight as a side affect of eating the foods that they enjoy.



Whether you think the side affects are acceptable, whether you think this is something you would want to try, whether her lifestyle doesn't fit in with your perception of what is "normal," I would suggest that you remember that these thoughts are something inherent in you, not in what she is doing. One man looks at sauerkraut and says "yuck." Another looks at it and says "yummy." These are not statments about the sauerkraut, but rather how we feel about it. It is a mistake to project your personal veiws and biases as being inherent in something that you observe, so much so that you expect everyone else to agree with you.


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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:Patriarch...

What are your thoughts on sites that promote and give advice on suicide...?


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:What, like this?

Clearly, another longstanding social taboo that some wish to have redefined in terms of personal choice and individual freedom, much like homosexuality or anarexia.


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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Patriarch917, what you're saying astounds me. Anorexia is termed a "disorder" as it kills. It is an illness. It is fatal.
The website you just posted above clearly states it's in favour of euthanasia for terminally ill patients only. I am whole heartedly in favour of euthanasia. What I'm not in favour of, is young girls, as young as 6 or 7, starving themselves because the media is telling them they are too thin, and then dying.
I dont think this is ignorance or intolerance on my part, correct me if i'm wrong smile


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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_Aime_
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4172
Posted: Written by: Patriarch917

To ignore your body's wish to indulge takes a tremendous amount of willpower when done voluntarily, as she points out. By practicing such self control in the area of eating, she has developed skills that can be applied in other areas of life.





What skills exactly?



I'm sure she puts that on her CV.

"I can write shorthand, can type 150wpm and have anorexic induced willpower"

EDITED_BY: Aime (1149687013)


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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted: Written by: Aime


 Written by: Patriarch917

To ignore your body's wish to indulge takes a tremendous amount of willpower when done voluntarily, as she points out. By practicing such self control in the area of eating, she has developed skills that can be applied in other areas of life.



What skills exactly?




I would think, first of all, that someone mentaly strong enough overcome an addiction to food could easily resist negative peer pressure, temptation to smoke, laziness, or subcoming to the opinions of anaphobes.


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Asena
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Asena

What a Bummer
Location: Shatfield, Hertfordshire, Unit...

Total posts: 3224
Posted:Yet they succome to the false Idea that its better to starve yourself?

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 4525
Posted: Written by: Patriarch917



I would think, first of all, that someone mentaly strong enough overcome an addiction to food could easily resist negative peer pressure, temptation to smoke, laziness, or subcoming to the opinions of anaphobes.



An addiction to food? Starving to death isnt overcoming an addiction to food. In fact, I'd say they had an addiction to dieting and starving.


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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