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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Not a finished thought:

So angel rolls (in the vertical plane) have four variations:

The angel roll
The angel roll that travels over the throat.
The frontside angel roll (requires an extra beat)
the frontside angel roll that travels over the neck.
the four beat angel roll.

Therefore steves should have those variations.

the steve
the steve that travels over the chest
the steve that does an extra beat and does a thoat wrap
the steve that does an extra beat and does a halo.
The four beat steve.


But the other steve variations:

The minimal beat steve,
the continuous. aspect of all steves.
The arms in wheel plane aspect.

can these be done with angel rolls?

Is the minimal beat steve just a equivalent to the frontside angel roll?


So the full steve is just a steve and then a horizontal angel roll that goes across the throat on the way back.

So there could be a low fat steve that does a minimal steve then a true horizontal angel on the way back.

After that you get to something I was told in america. That the difference between an angel roll and a steve is no just that they go up your arms in different directions, but that they travel in opposite direction spirals on your arms.

Now thinking about it, they obviously dont travel in spirals / helixes, as that would require some crazy arm propelloring. They inscribe a wave or a squiggly line on the tops of your arms. Nor indeed do they travel in opposite directions up your arms, that was my brain making fun of me. They essentially travel a different route up your arms. Their waves are out of sync. Like Trigonometry. Hmmmm Trigonometry.

They also start out of different hand wraps. a vertical steve starts from the pinky side and comes over the wrist. An angel roll starts from just plaining coming out of the thumb side.


What does it all mean?

Well it means I have several new things to try out, but most importantly: Angel rolls with arms like a zombie, not like a crucifix.

Plus to think about: Pivots, Angel rolls, Steves and Jesus.

angel to steve like the jesus, but without the hand propellor? Thatd be sweeeeet.

plus chronos quatering up the full steve and rearranging it how he likes... ought to try that vertically... Hmmmm....


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

*me thinks i should prac my basic steves a lot more and THEN come back to trying all this* wink


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Vat is de minimal beat steve?

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:i assume its just rolling it around your wrist onto your arm, then down your arm, around the back of the neck and back up the other arm? is that what you mean?

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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T&B
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol

Total posts: 607
Posted:A minimal beat steve is when the staff doesn't do a beat round the back of the neck so does the steve in half a spin less. If you can do a steve try it, just get the staff down to the neck ealier and duck your head, it got quite a nice feeling to it.

MCP I'm not quite what you mean with all the different angle rolls your written down but I'm going to go on and give my 2 cents worth anyway.

A Steve has the same number of beat as a (normal) angle roll with an extra throat wrap in the middle and a angle roll has the same beats a minimal steve.

So if you start off looking at an angle roll and rotate the plane till it's horzontall you either get a horzontal angle roll / second half of a minimal full steve with it rolling over the neck or a minimal steve. Front side angle rolls go to a minimal second half of a full steve (leanning back) or a minimal steve with it rolling over the throat (both move have far to much potentail to hurt you and probably wouldn't look very nice).

In the same way you can convert steves to angle rolls with extra neck or throat wraps but realistly you can only rotate the plane one way because otherwise you have to start your angle roll from forwards which I've tried and it's insanely hard.

Hope this make sense to more than just myself


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:still cant get minimal beat steves.......

but my angel rolls are coming on nicely (thanks Sandy)

Thing ive noticed with them is that a basic angel roll can go from inside arm - over neck - inside arm.

or the staff can stay of on the back of the arm as it comes over - which in a sense makes it an anti spun vertical steve.......mmmm

this is all confusing the shite out of me - but i like it biggrin

i am especially liking the angel roll with extra beat halos inbetween - that and turns to go from a frontside entry halo and exiting on the same arm.

Possibilities seem to be endless with this lot smile


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:I never bother to beat count, so this might be lots wrong.

A minimal beat steve does like an 180 degree turn, and a steve does 360. So a minimal does a half beat, and a normal a full beat.

Just like T&B said.

I think thou, that an angel roll does a full beat. (I can't go and check, bugger, I'm at work, even thou I do have a stick behind me...)

To do a minimal steve vertically or a minimal angel roll would be akin to doing a vertical globetrotter, but with a 180 degree spin. (which is a minimal steve, the only way to get more minimal would be a globetrotter or a static one.)

A full steve is a steve and an angel roll combined with horizontal hand wraps, so there's no point talking about the second half. The second half is a horizontal angel roll, that goes around the throat instead of doing a halo across the back.

Which leads to the whole: should there be a differentiation between steve's and angels or should there just be arm rolls? issue.

t&b:
"In the same way you can convert steves to angle rolls with extra neck or throat wraps but realistly you can only rotate the plane one way because otherwise you have to start your angle roll from forwards which I've tried and it's insanely hard."

rotate the plane? I don't understand. Did you get anywhere with the forwards angel... I tried it too and hit myself lots but sometimes something weird happened...

the essential difference since they both start out in reverse is which side of the body they start on. Getting them to the other side by doing an extra half beat on your arm, or turning or other shenanigans makes them into the opposite roll (steve or angel).

The frontside angel roll always requires the extra beat on the arm, making it basically a steve that started out as an angel roll. biggrin

And then you get the issue of being able to substitute a neck wrap for a chest halo and being able to subtitute a halo roll for a throat wrap, you can see these substitutions at work in my first post. And you can do them with anything, including (unfortunately) matricies.

Angel rolls with arms like a zombie didn't work, but I reckon it would if you could stretch your arms out behind you really high and parallel.

ubbangel confused


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted: Written by: strugz



this is all confusing the shite out of me - but i like it biggrin







nicely said. at this rate the staff section will be as mindbogglingly confusing as the poi forum.



in your definition of a 4bt steve where is the extra beat? is it that extra spin around the exiting elbow or just a basic back spin - or somewhere else?



i used a basic system thing a while back to explore different entries/exits into various moves - and using the concept that from a certain entrance one can go into a halo on one side or a neck wrap on the other - stuff like that. but mcp has clearly gone into infinitely more depth though.



methinks i really need to smooth out my angel roll variation more before i go into this.



nice post though. nerdy, yes - but still cool cool

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1149693266)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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T&B
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol

Total posts: 607
Posted: Written by: mcp



A minimal beat steve does like an 180 degree turn, and a steve does 360. So a minimal does a half beat, and a normal a full beat.




if you join your arms together and do a continous minimal beats steve (MBS) then it does 360 each time, a normal steve does 540 and a pray steve does 720. that unless your cutting out a extra beat some where but what I suspect is you starting you MBS from the staff being in the wall plane and stoping it in the wall plane thus cutting off 1/4 a turn each end. Thinking about this you could in theory do continous 180 steves but not only would it insanely quick but you would need to change the direction of the roll when changing the arms.

 Written by:

rotate the plane? I don't understand.



basicllay if you slowly change from horzontial to vertical or visa versa your rotating the plane this can be done in two direction leading to spinning forwards or backwards. It helps you see what going on as you slowly change the plane e.g. what does an angle roll look like if you rotate the plane by 15deg, 30deg, 45deg...90deg


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:MBS!!!! ubblol



I think you guys are just making up fancy names instead of actually spinning.

circles are sooos last month...

incidently

I learned the angel roll in france... wink

keep up the good work, i dont know what your talking about but it'l confuse the hell out of the poi heads


Love is the law.

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T&B
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol

Total posts: 607
Posted:spining is so last month making up silly names and confuseing hopers is where it's at wink



Dentrassi: one way to add extra beats to a steve is to do horzontail propellers as it coming down the arm and going back up, you can stick them in everywhere wrist, forarm, elblow, sholder (at the sholder is the same as motion as a matrix). Alteratively you can add extra beat my using the arm it's rolling down like your palm in a plam spin which is what I persume MCP means?


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:But its not really a four beat steve then is it?

Its just like a steve with a propellor added?

or am i over simplifying... these are gurilla posts from my desk in work. therefore swift and without any real content.


Love is the law.

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T&B
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol

Total posts: 607
Posted:ture which I way I call it a proppellor steve but it's a cool move so I thought i'd give it a plug here wink but the other type of four beat steve is just a steve with pivots added was what do you mean MCP??????

help us MCP you are our only hope...


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: T&B



 Written by: mcp





A minimal beat steve does like an 180 degree turn, and a steve does 360. So a minimal does a half beat, and a normal a full beat.







if you join your arms together and do a continous minimal beats steve (MBS) then it does 360 each time, a normal steve does 540 and a pray steve does 720. that unless your cutting out a extra beat some where but what I suspect is you starting you MBS from the staff being in the wall plane and stoping it in the wall plane thus cutting off 1/4 a turn each end. Thinking about this you could in theory do continous 180 steves but not only would it insanely quick but you would need to change the direction of the roll when changing the arms.







Yeah, I only count the stuff when it's contacting. So it would do a 360 if you connected it up. If you just did one, from spinning to spinning, it would do 180 degrees of spin while contacting.



in other words: YES. We are right. wink



 Written by: T&B



 Written by: mcp

rotate the plane? I don't understand.





basicllay if you slowly change from horzontial to vertical or visa versa your rotating the plane this can be done in two direction leading to spinning forwards or backwards. It helps you see what going on as you slowly change the plane e.g. what does an angle roll look like if you rotate the plane by 15deg, 30deg, 45deg...90deg





ah I see what you mean now. This is more normally referred to as BREAKING PLANES! MURAGAGAGAGHRGDSFGJDSGDSJFAJSDASDHsdksddfkdfjeeerrrrrrr.... yeah okay. nice way of explaining it.





what am I saving? I gonna try and save my sanity, but I fear it may be too late. (like that was sooo last year.)



Four beat steve: Yeah many places to do extra beats, as extra SPINS or as extra WRAPS (propellers in this case.).



The one I think you're taking about adobe is the one like sandies four beat angel roll. Which is to say extra beatage on the shoulders / shoulder blades. How that translates to a steve I don't know, possibly only to the horizontal (unless you want weird pectoral muscle wraps) plane steve, as spins on either shoulder. Who can tell?



Otherwise I don't remember what the argument or confusion about the four beat steve was.... Maybe I should read the previous posts more slowly... with my brain turned on this time...



So the difference between a steve matrix and a four beat steve could be many things, one of which would be the four beat steve is using spins instead of propellors to get it's extra beats.



I'm trying not to be confusing but obviously totally failing... eek rolleyes cool


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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T&B
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol

Total posts: 607
Posted:if you say rotating the plane it sounds like your doing something clever if you say breaking the plane it sounds like your doing something wrong that way my planes are never broken but they sometime rotate wink



btw I think your posts make perfect sense but then again I get the impression that on one understands a word I'm saying most of the time. Anyway I might stop posting an start spinning bounce bounce


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:i can contact staff.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:you can go to the ball! too.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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-sandy-
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 716
Posted:Having just read all of that for the first time ive decided i cant be arsed to put in a post and will just talk about it with you at play.



Good post though, nearly every sugestion i thought of was brought up within a couple of posts. Guess thats why i love spinning with you guys.



Hooray for geeky contact bounce2


"Don't do it naked!"

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:you know reading this thread made me think about how much i like not-contact staff tongue

which is funny as there's a lot of cool stuff in here and i'm finally getting the hang of understanding text descriptions of moves, but still....

i'm just going to be the odd one i suppose. i've really got to [s]meet some people who do non-contact staff[/s] live near some people who do staff.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Chronofracture333


Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush

Total posts: 329
Posted:Anti-spin angel rolls (daemon rolls....)

A normal angel roll rolls from (let's say) right hand to left hand whilst spinning anti-clockwise. Anti-spin version travels right to left whilst spinning clockwise. Requires a bit of shoulder shimmy to catch on the left arm.

However, this move is also a vertical steve (1st half). In the regular v.steve you take a horizontal move and tilt it forwards till vertical. Here the move is tilted backwards. I'm trying the 2nd half of the full steve in this fashion. It seems possible, but is making my face hurt.

And also.... Yes MCP. Vertical steves and angel rolls can be carved up and served however you like.

smile


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Chronofracture



And also.... Yes MCP. Vertical steves and angel rolls can be carved up and served however you like.

smile



I would like them on a plate please! With cherries on top. biggrin

<thinking will have to wait till practising.. ie hometime. >


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Chronofracture333


Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush

Total posts: 329
Posted:Real cream or whippy?

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:whippy of course!

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:my steve suff is coming along but my angel rolls are still a bit weak. I will however be watching closely at play and trying to sneak som footage ubblol

I got the prayer rolls down with extra beats at the prayer (propeller round closed palms) and yesterday managed to go into matrix from a prayer roll (end of possibly my best ever contact set lol.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Chronofracture333


Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush

Total posts: 329
Posted:1:05 minutes in... ubbloco

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Damn! Good find. I've been trying to do that for some short while now, but it's not even near that sort of state...

This has gotta be the most interesting two baton stuff I have yet seen. Thanks chronos!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr

Total posts: 4217
Posted:Meg, maybe you can wear a leotard as you spin?....

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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entheogen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

entheogen

member
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 173
Posted:what the F!@$%?

Can someone explain how that trick is even possible?


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:Nice find indeed!

Knew it was possible - but didnt think it would look as nice as it does!

(MCP - pm coming - sounds like a plan to me!)

ubbrollsmile


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:biggrin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:Ok so i was playing with these last night - they are F hard dudes - like really F hard!

I managed a cool little trick though - rather than pulling off the double angel roll - i got the staffs to do half of it - when they hit my neck they cossed and exited much like a halo.

Sweet move - but getting the last bit is going to take years i think.

First one to get it wins a cookie!

ubblol


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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