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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Not a finished thought:

So angel rolls (in the vertical plane) have four variations:

The angel roll
The angel roll that travels over the throat.
The frontside angel roll (requires an extra beat)
the frontside angel roll that travels over the neck.
the four beat angel roll.

Therefore steves should have those variations.

the steve
the steve that travels over the chest
the steve that does an extra beat and does a thoat wrap
the steve that does an extra beat and does a halo.
The four beat steve.


But the other steve variations:

The minimal beat steve,
the continuous. aspect of all steves.
The arms in wheel plane aspect.

can these be done with angel rolls?

Is the minimal beat steve just a equivalent to the frontside angel roll?


So the full steve is just a steve and then a horizontal angel roll that goes across the throat on the way back.

So there could be a low fat steve that does a minimal steve then a true horizontal angel on the way back.

After that you get to something I was told in america. That the difference between an angel roll and a steve is no just that they go up your arms in different directions, but that they travel in opposite direction spirals on your arms.

Now thinking about it, they obviously dont travel in spirals / helixes, as that would require some crazy arm propelloring. They inscribe a wave or a squiggly line on the tops of your arms. Nor indeed do they travel in opposite directions up your arms, that was my brain making fun of me. They essentially travel a different route up your arms. Their waves are out of sync. Like Trigonometry. Hmmmm Trigonometry.

They also start out of different hand wraps. a vertical steve starts from the pinky side and comes over the wrist. An angel roll starts from just plaining coming out of the thumb side.


What does it all mean?

Well it means I have several new things to try out, but most importantly: Angel rolls with arms like a zombie, not like a crucifix.

Plus to think about: Pivots, Angel rolls, Steves and Jesus.

angel to steve like the jesus, but without the hand propellor? Thatd be sweeeeet.

plus chronos quatering up the full steve and rearranging it how he likes... ought to try that vertically... Hmmmm....


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Ok, so I know its possible to do a double neck wrap simply by placing one stick higher than the other, but how does one actively control one side of the angel roll to go higher up the neck than the other?

I like to think my angel rolls are pretty clean and would LOVE to learn this trick, but first I need to work out in my little head that its physically possible outside of the occaisional freak accident.

She seems to have her arms pretty far back, I mean much farther back than the average angel roll. Is it possible that the one fully contacts the neck while the other is 'thrown' from shoulder to shoulder?


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:Maybe the lack of grips on batons helps here? Sliding over each other instead of getting stuck.

I think timing will be important as well. Not sure that either of the batons is thrown though, looks too smooth.


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Not necessarily that its thrown, but that maybe the one jumps a bit? I remember when I first learned the angel roll the stick had a tendency to bounce over, and maybe its possible to learn that the one side bounces over intentionally.

I doubt the batons lack of grip allows them to slide rather than crash, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I take back the bit about maybe they could pass each other like in a double neck wrap, since an angel roll passes at the vertical plane at the neck.

Another strange thought: aren't there baton twirling forums on the internet discussing this very same trick?


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:ouch that was nice biggrin

i can do throws catch into angel roll
(throw staff up and put wrist in a right moment for staff to angel roll to other hand, I thought maybe it could be popped up spin the body through 180 and repeat. OR

pop up and angel roll BACK to original hand.. with fire i think it would give a wing like trace... comments?


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Suibom
Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2005
Total posts: 577
Posted:Regarding the double angel roll vid, it seems that both batons are tossed and neither are touching her neck. I'm figuring it's a controlled angle variation in the same vein of the poi butterfly.

Of course, I'm a newbie so I could be entirely wrong smile.

Peace,
- Sui


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:I thought that too, even so they were very well angled throws.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:nah it's totally possible, it just requires a lot of work. I can almost do a much much much easier variaition of it now.

Dual bfly horizontal (mostly) pivots


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted: Written by: mcp


nah it's totally possible, it just requires a lot of work. I can almost do a much much much easier variaition of it now.

Dual bfly horizontal (mostly) pivots



your gonna have to show me that one at UberEurope!


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:OK, now meg needs to update the angel roll variations list to include whatever it is that chick just did confused



now that the arashi pretends he can contact staff, he's somehow managed, despite a complete lack of skill, to figure out a little antispin present for you. watch you go DUH when you see it. of course i will leave all the actual work of teaching it in meg's hands, but it's just a cool push in entrance from a backhand roll tongue



"don't mess with the jesus."



wink ubblol



anyways, i think with devil rolls it is possible to do an atomic angel roll... both staffs moving together in an 45 degree tilted atom... damn i can't wait to see someone who doesn't suck (ie. ME) pull it off... otherwise gimmee a year or 3...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Yeah...I reckon they're thrown, not rolled. Nice video though.

I also think that all staff spinners should adopt a fixed beauty-queen smile and wear more lycra.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:but the announcer lady says straight up that it is a roll! and i figure she would know, she even describes it as a roll several times. i think the fact that they are rolled off center allows for the tips/ends to meet at her back, graze against each other or perhaps miss altogether... it looks like she has set up the batons so the small side is down to allow them to roll across each other.



ditto on the lycra outfits though, can't wait to sport my new gold silkies.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Ah...I didn't have the sound turned on.

I think pink with leopard spots would look hot


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:uncanny. so reminiscent of my last outfit, purple sheer catsuit with these boots



ok i've been hitting pause for a while now and there are clearly two very different planes and some timing differences... obvious i suppose but i think it's interesting the way her shoulders lift off her rib cage to create a valley between her shoulder blades, she almost throws her arms up to really make a groove there... i think she may be slipping one of the staffs in that crook while the other rolls over the scapula. either that or her trainer is missing a real obvious injurous form redface


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:what this move actually requires is practise.

In other news: We going to call your 'devil' rolls, demon rolls arashi. To be more in touch with the heaven / hell symbology. biggrin


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:sure, whatever, but didn't somebody call them (or at least the concept) daemon rolls earlier in this thread? i do like demon rolls better... daemon sounds too much like some pretentious comic book writer that has gotten sick of using the word demon... personally i am sick of the whole premise of a dichotomy of evil and good but you know darn well why i thought the name would be apropos... wink

and you have failed to comment on you preference for lycra-esque garmentation.

i'm getting together with sage to teach her contact staff TOMORROW bounce


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:I wouldnt be so quick to assume its a roll just because the anouncer lady says so.

From the circus video collection I've got I have come to the conclusion that the commentators never have a freaking clue about the real facts on what their babbling about.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:that was probably chronos. We talked about it in leeds. I don't think the spelling is really pertinent to the move particularly... smile Thou now it will forever be connected in my mind to RH's (non-biological) son. wink

my preference for lycra-esque garments is that they be on somebody else and not me. Thou that's just my normal side talking, the side of me that wants to be a ninja cat-burglar really loves black catsuits. biggrin

Say hi to sage for me! rub off some of my contact staff knowledge on her if you can. (yes in that way.) hug


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted: Written by: entheogen


I wouldnt be so quick to assume its a roll just because the anouncer lady says so.



definitely agree with you there, especially the way they think they know everything and are so judgemental, how could they really know as much as they think they do? for me it seemed though like she was fairly farmiliar with the girl's work... that could be her just being a stinkyhead commentor trying to appear more knowledgeable, but the way she kept saying, in so many words "well she's got skills blah blah... she's almost great... if she wasn't so choppy" sounded like she's seen her compete many times and knew what she was going to do before she did it... how about the points system? would they count it if it was a throw? cuz that may be a good indicator, i doubt she'd train a throw like that if it didn't give her points.
why don't we just ask the girl? meg get on the net and seduce her... you know you want a lycra beauty queen to chat with...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:generally the commentators and judges for these sorts of small sports are old competitors who enjoy the sport enough to give up their free time to judge and commentate on these events. I know plenty of coaches and such like in baton twirling and gymnastics that also judge, so I think it would be the case that they know what they're talking about.

Plus chronos has almost done it as a roll in front of my very eyes. Plus I have done it a good few times with the back of hand to elbow transfer instead of the angel arm roll. So it's perfectly possible.

Now I just have to practise it with lycra....


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:THAT'S IT!!!!
lycra is the secret!!!
lycra imbues the staffs with non stick super glide powers.
well at least it imbues ME with *ahem* super glide powers... or that could be just a result of how fabulous my arse looks in a catsuit hehe


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Mmmmm, is lycra fire-resistant?

If not I'd suggest tight black leather, miaouw!


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:ubblove ubblove
*sigh* methinks i concurrr heartily, matey (i be gettin ready for pirate day, arrr) but the only tight leather i have has too many sequins on it to do contact with biggrin it's left over from my 6 month stint as a "riverdancer" and i don't want to damage it. fond memories you know. eek

hey speaking of showing sage some "special" contact moves, are there any forbidden moves with contact staff? or shall i embellish at will? something reminiscent of a stick pony immediately comes to mind...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:that move isn't forbidden, it's just illegal. So you can get away with it as long as you don't get caught....

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted: Written by: arashi



shall i embellish at will?





Oh, go on then... I've seen it all before but I could do with a giggle. (And a magnifying glass?)



devil


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:touche.
anyways my mum told me that 1.5 inches will rock anybody's world, but only if they are special enough. and someday soon, she says, she'll find someone who i can show my special purpose to.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:eugh!

I don't want to see your special purpose! (unless it's 1.5m long and has flamey bits on each end.)


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:that could get sore

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Man ia this getting offtopic

Shouldn't we go back to the actual point of this forum
i.e. angel rolls vs. steve's, are all steve variations theoretically possible in an angel roll?

My answer is no. Anybody care to try and prove me wrong?


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:I think there all theoretically possible. It's just that some of them just aren't very likely to happen and some are just plain hard.



I've found that almost everything I do horizontally can be done vertically but not visa versa.



Hmm...



One armed angel rolls/steves- Perform roll to the shoulder turn 180deg and continue roll back down the same arm. One direction is easier than the other. Trying to get these horizontal at the moment.



Elbow Pop angel roll/steve- When the staff reaches the inside of your elbow, pop it across head/chest/back to the opposite elbow.



I tried this one because various people were speculating about the nature of the double angel roll in the baton video. Having now tried it both ways I feel they could both be rolled or one could be thrown. Didn't seem to make it easier.


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:Also on an angel roll tip....



Got an angel roll from hand to opposing ankle a few times today. Nothing like controlled yet but the most obvious exit seems to be swing it forward into reverse foot fishtails/kickup.



Acting under instruction from the good fairy Sparklejess this move will henceforth be refered to as the Superman.



ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: Chrono333 (1158524104)


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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