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Forums > Technical Discussion > If you fall off the horse......

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ritch


ritch

newbie


Total posts: 13
Posted:Pele is gonna slam me over this one. BTW I would like to thank her for her posts to my last thread. She(you) have been an inspiration to me through this.
Ok....so I had a few really bad experiencces with my first stint of firebreahing (as told Here ) I learned from that experience. I fell off the horse. I picked myself up, dusted myself off, and after licking my wounds I got right back on him! I know....I know, dumb right? But I could'nt resist. The temptation was overwhelming! I really do want to learn this art!!!

I've been blowing fire. I've gotten pretty good too (check out the flame in my avatar! I have video as well that I'm thinking about posting.) I Practiced a few more times with the water and perfected the aspiration technique. I set out practicing for two hours in the mornings and two hours at night. Then I hit the fuel. It took me an entire weekend to figure it out, but I got the general technique down. Now I just have to perfect it. I'm logging all of my results for furthure study, and of course, I'm taking all saftey measures into account. Oh! Just as a side note, I did experience a chemical reaction between the oil (lamp oil BTW) and detergents in the rag that I was using to whipe my mouth with. It gave me a severe rash on my face where the rag touched. Now I buy rags new, wash them out really good with water and let them dry naturally. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but I wanted to add it anyway.

Aside from the actuall breathing I'm also practicing some really cool choreography to make it interesting (without the fire for now). I've watched a lot of firebreathing video, and for the most part.....it's just uninteresting. I want to make it interesting!

Ouch! I feel Pele's whip...Ouch! Have mercy mistress of fire....MERCY!!! ...lol, just kidding!

But seriously, Pele has become my ultimate source for information about this art. Again...thank you for your posts on my last thread. I know how you feel about firebreathing and I know that you refuse to teach it, but idiots like myself just don't listen very well. I would like to ask a question though. This is for Pele, as well as other PROFESSIONAL firebreathers here at HOP.

Blowback? As I understand it this happens when the flame gets to close to your lips, ignites the fuel in your mouth, and causes the fire to blow past your mouth and into your lungs. Have I got that right? And whats the best way to avoid this?...e.g. don't burn into the wind, etc,etc?


Thanks in advance and wish me luck


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Posted:*stands back and lets Pele take this one over* lol biggrin

"I don't know what you are talking about"

"Cardinal!!! Poke her... with the SOFT CUSIONS!!!!"

"Its not working my lord!"

"Have you got all of the stuffing on one end?!"

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SickWithWonder


member


Total posts: 56
Posted:I spit fire too...(stupid, i know....but we all are gonna die anyways, and it makes me happy, and id rather die young and happy, than old and miserable)

From what I understand, the danger with blowbacks isnt the fire blowing into your lungs, when the flame flashes back to your mouth it forces fuel into your lungs...its the chemicals that are the more dangerous part.

And having flames on your face, in your mouth, and inside your body cant be very pleasant.


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I've breathed fire since my accident. It was something I had to do for me. I haven't since. I understand.

I am still very much in love with the art.

I just hate seeing new, young people enter into it. I do, however, respect that it is an individual decision for each and everyone of us to make.

That's where I stand, just for clarity.



Moving on....



Blowbacks...not exactly what either of you seem to think....



A blowback has nothing to do with forcing fuel into your lungs.



When you firebreathe there are fumes/vapours (other than the aspirated fuel) from the fuel between your mouth and the torch, which generally remain unignited with use of fuels with high flashpoints.

Generally.

There is the possibility of the fumes/vapours igniting in the air, the fire following the fumes back to the source...your mouth.

When this happens, and it has, the list of problems is pretty limitless, especially if you still have fuel in your mouth.



This is one of the reasons why fire breathers are supposed to wipe their chins of excess fuel and step back when they are done.



Hope that helps. Let me know if there are any more questions.



Thanks RR...yer funny! wink

And thanks MM for the heads up biggrin



Best of health to all!

EDITED_BY: Pele (1149129148)


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:thsi is somethign that has been confusing me for ages.

"especially if you still have fuel in your mouth"
umm

What with parafin beign a fuel and all, I get confused, becuase, it usually takes ages to warm up parafin to the correct temperature, thus why you can put out your wicks in a bucket of parafin.
I also understand that the gas/ vapours arent goign to need nearly as much heat to get them to burn, and thusly, will burn quicker.

But how does the flame from the fuel vapour ignite the fuel in your mouth? How can it raise the temperature significantly enough without using all the vapour fuel up? shrug

If the worst does happen, and the fuel in your mouth does catch on fire, can you not just close your mouth, thus stopping the oxygen flow, extinguishing the fire? umm


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i think blowback, rare as they are, when they do occur, happen very quickly.

i think that if a flame gets as far as the fuel in your mouth, you're in a pretty bad situation already.

remembering to try and close your mouth while it has lit fuel around/near would require a high degree of clarity in a horribly scary and quickly occurring situation.

i imagine the reflex response would be to spit out whatever is in your mouth and try to cover your face with your hands could be even more disasterous than the blowback.

scary stuff.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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SickWithWonder


member


Total posts: 56
Posted:i was clear on what a blowback was...it was the health implecations that i was talking about...that information was through word of mouth though...

no matter what, its nasty business


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted: Written by: UnConvincinglyOvertlyFunny


thsi is somethign that has been confusing me for ages.

"especially if you still have fuel in your mouth"
umm

What with parafin beign a fuel and all, I get confused, becuase, it usually takes ages to warm up parafin to the correct temperature, thus why you can put out your wicks in a bucket of parafin.
I also understand that the gas/ vapours arent goign to need nearly as much heat to get them to burn, and thusly, will burn quicker.

But how does the flame from the fuel vapour ignite the fuel in your mouth? How can it raise the temperature significantly enough without using all the vapour fuel up? shrug

If the worst does happen, and the fuel in your mouth does catch on fire, can you not just close your mouth, thus stopping the oxygen flow, extinguishing the fire? umm




It actually has nothing to do with the fuel in your mouth catching fire. The fuel on your face, or the mist in front of your face lighting up is what sucks (has happened). This can also lead to things like clothing and hair catching on fire.

When people get shocked like that the first auto-response is to inhale. Think about when you are shocked or frightened or are given a start...most people tend to inhale sharply.
Alone that will do some damage with a blowback.
With fuel in your mouth...well...we all know how that goes.

The next auto-reflex we have is to clear our mouths, most automatically by swallowing. We swallow lots during the day and don't even know it. How often have you swallowed something before you ever even thought about it (like chewing gum?) Ritch has already admitted that he did this once. We have to clear our mouths before we can ask for help or say "Oh @#$%!". It is not something we always control or think about, especially in a surprise style situations. As we all know, swallowing fuel is no good.

Spitting it out is not an auto-reflex. It is one that we have to think about and then do...so the inhalation would come before the spitting out. That is where the dangers really lie with a blowback.

I would also like to point out that not everyone is smart enought to use parafin.
Some people like to use forms of alcohol, which are of a conciderably lower flashpoint. Now, say there is some off chance that the fuel ignites in your mouth and you open it to yell for help. You absolutely can close your mouth to snuff out the flame. This is not instantaneous however. How many times have you tried to snuff out a wick only to lift the towel and have it relight?
Happens lots. In the mean time, flaming hot liquid is in your mouth burning away at that, the back of your throat and quite possibly your sinus cavity. Takes 5 seconds to burn flesh, generally. I can put flaming ball in my mouth, close it, open my mouth back up and pull it out and still have it lit. (I use a pool of spit on my tongue to help protect it, but I have still been burned doing that stunt) Keeping that in mind, would 5 seconds then be enough for it to snuff out? I don't know, but it is not a risk willing to take.
Which is why we NEVER use alcohol to fire breathe with (for any curious kat reading. wink )

I would also like to say that I had hot coffee the other morning. Really hot. I took a sip and the sequence went something like this... Felt the burning, eyes got very large, needed to spit it out, spit then cold water followed by a strong stream of explicatives. My first thought was to get it out, not keep it in. I am assuming I would react the same way with flaming fuel which means I would be literally spitting out flaming fuel before I would think I shouldn't. Even in the tiniest amount can be destructive because who is to say where that would land?

Make sense?
Didn't think so. wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:That did make sence smile
Thanks hug2

And althougth that coffee is non flammeable, Non dairy milk creamer is (honestly!) biggrin


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ritch


ritch

newbie


Total posts: 13
Posted:Pele, thanks again for all your help. I think I fully understand the blowback theory now. And I have to say I'm not taking any chances. I blew a really good stream the other day and walked the flames a few feet back before they came dangerously close to my mouth. I actually saw the flames flickering at my lips and felt the heat over my whole face! I know just how uncanny things can go, especially when your crazy enough to put a flammable liquid into your mouth and blow it into a flame. A few very important aspects of any of the fire arts seem to be relaxation and concentration. These seem to help you control your fear of the fire and make you more aware of the circumstances around you.

BTW, if anyone else gets gutsy enough to try this and swallows lamp oil, get ready to crap your guts out for days. I lived on the toilet for three or four days even after having a stomach pump. Well, it was'nt exactly a pump. I had to eat these huge cotton balls filled with pink fluid that made me puke. Not very pleasant!!!

As for your comment about alcohols, my research suggested staying far from all of them, as well as anything that was explosive. Makes sense anyway, alcohol is gonna burn on anyting that it touches. Your torch, your hands, your chest, mouth, teeth, ect.ect! None for me thanks. I'll stick with the paraffin.

The coffee thing was hilarious! I'm just glad you did'nt spit it out!!!! Ha, ha, ha....You would have covered everyone within a five mile radius......lol! You are an experienced fire breather, after all. Can you imagine the stream of coffee....lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!

Love you guys
ritch


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