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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Ok guys please help a chicky out here.

Im looking for special diamonds to have a ring made... we have been searching on ebay for ages and found some really nice stones but they say "man made" does this mean they are essentially cubic zirconia? Or still diamonds just not mined naturally and created under certian conditions?
Im a bit confused thats all...any elightenment would be fantastic! hug hug hug

Thanks beautifuls


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne

Total posts: 5125
Posted:here you go chickeno

cheers, pete hug


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
diamonds are made from carbon that's been subjected to extreem pressure and heat, they can be man made. cubic zirconia's another gem altogether.

I'd still rather natural diamonds though wink

then again... I wouldn't mind being a diamond when i grow up. (This kinda freaked me out when I first read it, but now I think it's kinda cool.)


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:I think I would rather avoid a natural one because of all the blood labour associated with mining them...
Thanks for the clarification fox and petey !


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:Diamonds off ebay... doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I'd go to a specialist dealer, and check 'em out yourself... make sure they (the stones) have certification. smile

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted: Written by: Valura


I think I would rather avoid a natural one because of all the blood labour associated with mining them...




i'm with you on that one valura, diamond.............or any prescious stone/metal mining is a cut throat business (literaly)


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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted: Written by: Valura


I think I would rather avoid a natural one because of all the blood labour associated with mining them...




its not as if mining is like is was in the 1800's with tiny slave kids scrambling around in the dirt for shiny bit of glass like substance.
Diamond operations are mostly large scale commercial extraction jobs nowadays - with pretty much the same worker conditions as mining any other mineral or metal-so really no different from any other piece of jewellery. it depends of the country more that the industry.

There is a move against something like 'conflict diamonds' - mined by governments who use profits for unethical practises/war etc. I think this mainly targets African countries like Angola & Sierra Leone.

But a whole bunch on diamonds on the world market come from Canada - which has quite high standards of industrial practise relative to most countries.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
ya big hippie valura.

Dentrassi's right (as usual) there's no little slave kids scrabbling for glass-like substances anymore, and people die in almost every trade there is. Electritians have one of the highest death rates of any trade, it doesn't stop me from turning on the light when i go to the loo in the middle of the night.

And anyways, there're much prettier stones than diamonds in the world, they're only prestigious because they're rare. If we're gonna start making them in labs left right and centre you may as well buy cubic zirconia or glass and be done with it.

As for "conflict diamonds" i'd completely agree with avoiding them, but that shouldn't be too hard to do.

Oi and Dentrassi, we have a perfectly good diamond mine right here in australia, in queensland no less, that produces some of the highest quality diamonds in the world, and i'm sure our industrial practices are fine, don't go selling us out to canada so quickly tongue (be buggered if i can remember what it's called though, my mother's been sprouting about them for years she want's a champage diamond or something)


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:yep - no kids mining here in Oz either - besides - dwarves are much cheaper tongue

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 1848
Posted:exactly my point. (the dwarves i mean)

"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:The best place I've found for diamonds online is Diamond Exchange. I got my engagement diamond; a 51 point internally flawless E, with ICE ideal cut (meaningful for gemmologists, basically a very beautiful stone) for just over $4000, the valuation I got for it was over $10000 from a jeweller.

As a side benefit, they deal in Canadian stones. I've seen diamond mines in Namibia where it's cheaper for the mine owners to pay compo to the families of the workers killed rather than engineer the mine properly. Didn't want to support that mentality.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted: Written by: Dentrassi



 Written by: Valura



I think I would rather avoid a natural one because of all the blood labour associated with mining them...







its not as if mining is like is was in the 1800's with tiny slave kids scrambling around in the dirt for shiny bit of glass like substance.

Diamond operations are mostly large scale commercial extraction jobs nowadays - with pretty much the same worker conditions as mining any other mineral or metal-so really no different from any other piece of jewellery. it depends of the country more that the industry.



There is a move against something like 'conflict diamonds' - mined by governments who use profits for unethical practises/war etc. I think this mainly targets African countries like Angola & Sierra Leone.



But a whole bunch on diamonds on the world market come from Canada - which has quite high standards of industrial practise relative to most countries.



eek confused

wow Ed Im so super surprised at that comment...There is plently of evidence to support my view so I am a firm believer in not supporting that type of industry. Just as I wouldnt buy anything produced in a sweat shop.



http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=61
br>
http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/diamonds.htm
br>


These are some of the reasons I wont buy a naturally mined diamond.



Diamond Mine-Owners Violate Indigenous People's Rights...

Diamond mines in Australia, Canada, India and many countries in Africa are situated on lands traditionally associated with indigenous peoples. Many of these communities have been displaced, while others remain, often at great cost to their health, livelihoods and traditional cultures.



Slave Laborers Cut and Polish Diamonds.....

More than one-half of the world's diamonds are processed in India where many of the cutters and polishers are bonded child laborers. Bonded children work to pay off the debts of their relatives, often unsuccessfully. When they reach adulthood their debt is passed on to their younger siblings or to their own children.



Conflict Diamonds Fund Civil Wars in Africa.....

There is no reliable way to insure that your diamond was not mined or stolen by government or rebel military forces in order to finance civil conflict. Conflict diamonds are traded either for guns or for cash to pay and feed soldiers.



Diamond Wars are Fought Using Child Warriors.....

Many diamond producing governments and rebel forces use children as soldiers, laborers in military camps, and sex slaves. Child soldiers are given drugs to overcome their fear and reluctance to participate in atrocities.



Small Arms Trade is Intimately Related to Diamond Smuggling.....

Illicit diamonds inflame the clandestine trade of small arms. There are 500 million small arms in the world today which are used to kill 500,000 people annually, the vast majority of whom are non-combatants.





Fox I would really like to say that I think you may have misunderstood my point about not buying from this particular industry.In regard to your quote about electricians, its unforunate that they have accidents and deaths on the job, but that was well beside my point. Its the slave conditions that these children are subjected to that I will not support. If that makes me a hippy Im proud to be one. smile



Fox you say I should just buy a cubic zirconia, or a piece of glass and "be done with it?" ouch. These stones are for our 'PROPER' engagement rings..(our mums are moaning that although we have been handfasted and are married in Wiccan eyes, we havent done it 'properly' so they can come.rolleyes )



I would like to have a diamond because I like the way they look, in saying that and I would much rather one that was created in a lab by workers who are happy and healthy, than support a trade I dont believe in by buying a diamond that was polished by the hand of an innocent child. (who isnt paid for the first two years and develops eyesores and kidney dysfunction from working underground in a censored up diamond mine.)



so yeah.



I wasnt going to get into it, I was going to leave it with my blood trade comment, but I felt a little put down for my opinion. redface



Erea Thank you so much for that...since asking ths question I have done a whole lot of research and know EXACTLY what kind of stone you have.

I have looked at the diamond exchange, but because I am against the mining etc I have also been looking at Apollo http://www.apollodiamond.com/
and Nexus http://www.diamondnexuslabs.com/jewelry/index.php?cPath=104
labs for diamonds.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:ok - perhaps that was a quick post phrased a bit flippantly.



main points partly rephrased, partly explained more:

- yes i agree several african nations have bad records when in comes to a range of issues - child labour, civil war, arms traffiking, and general industrial practises. also the appalling concept of a debt based labour repayment as a factor in the economic model of a society. these affect a whole bunch of other industries - ie child labour in nike sweatshops.



I agree that it is best to avoid any attempt to support those businesses.



if you buy diamonds from countries reasonable free of those problems (ie canada or australia), you are likely to avoid any ethical problem with these issues, as these countries have extremely high standards and laws on industrial practises - and also against child exploitation, arms dealing etc. No countries perfect sure - but thats what you need to weigh up.



Id much rather buy australian made for well everything - because im happier with that personally and ethically - but it will come at a price compared to a diamond say from India.



In terms of displacement of indigenous land, destroying environment etc - i agree having no mine is a better solution - but is no worse than any other mining operation for coal, iron, copper, gold, bauxite (aluminium) - which realistically i use so much of in my computer, car, juggling toys, music equipment, applicances, shiny chefs knives etc - that theres no reason why i really could view treating a diamond different (as long as bought from the right country) from any other natural mineral resource i use to sustain my quality of life.



hopefully that explains it better valura hug i didnt mean to offend.



from a general fascination perspective - i would be interested in looking at the resources required to produce an artificial diamond? actually look at the entire life cycle of the process - work out equivalent measures like - approx how many tonnes of coal would be burnt to generate enough energy to create a single artificial diamond? how much construction material to create the furnace (or however they make it) just because something is made in a lab doesnt necessarily mean that its better for the environment.



It just occured to me - youre the apparent hippy, im the engineer, and your saying you want a sythetic diamond - and im puting up possible alternatives as to why its ok to go with natural diamonds ubblol i think somewhere we have got confused smile



hug

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1149082423)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
i didn't mean to offend either, when i said about cubic zirconia or glass, i didn't mean you speciffically, was speaking in general.

*giggles* proper engagement rings? if you're wiccan and you're handfasted, wouldn't the christian marriage for your parent's sake be the pretend one?


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:On a side note, there's absolutely no reason why you should use a diamond if you feel opposed to the industry; the whole "diamonds are necessary for engagement rings" thing comes from De Beers marketing campaign in the 1940s. I was listening to an interview on ABC radio yeaterday with a woman whose ring features glass mosaic stones from Ayia Sofia cathedral/mosque in Istanbul, which sounded absolutely gorgeous.

A guy who works in the industry told me that if your diamond is colourless or large (over 40 points) it's probably natural as both are very hard to make in the lab.

Synthetic rubies and sapphires are easier to come by, or you could fossick for your own out in the appropirately named towns of Emerald and Sapphire.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:"youre the apparent hippy, im the engineer, and your saying you want a sythetic diamond - and im puting up possible alternatives as to why its ok to go with natural diamonds i think somewhere we have got confused"

yeah, I had noticed that! ubblol


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:I also noticed that! *giggle*

Must be a bit of a mix up here somewhere!

Yeah Fox the colourless ones are hard to come by by the apollo gem labs are hopefulyy coming up with a near to colourless one this year some time! smile


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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