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Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > 3 seperate styles of staff twirling

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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:it seems staff twirling has evolved into three main categories

Contact staff ,
Staff twirling/firedancing,
Staff juggling(rubber heart style)

Would people agree with this observation?



mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: simian


oh, those. Yeah i do them. But i often get stuck at the bit where my wheels fold in...



I can't become a giant robot anymore, my hair gets in the way of all the delicate machinery... frown


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted: Written by: megasaurus rex

Still haven't found a staff spinny move I couldn't learn in an hour.



Personally, i reckon i haven't learnt figure eight properly yet.

Some ways of manipulating are inherently harder? Kind of, but no.

i'd need less effort to do a cascade with balls than with clubs
likewise less effort to learn a figure eight than an elbow roll (marginally)

but that doesn't mean that if you find something to do with a 3 clubs of difficulty x, i can't find something to do with 3 balls that's difficulty x+1. Difficulty is chosen by the user, and the difficulty of an entire discipline not determined by it's entry level.

It doesn't help by the fact that spinning tends to only be defined by its base components, whereas contact is defined with long combos of patterns (matrix, steve) which increases the apparent difficulty of the "moves".


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted: Written by: mcp

Really is the anti-spin hand movement sooo different from like a reverse double spin?



yes tongue

what way is your hand pointing from the wrist?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Go on, tell me, what is it about the figure of eight that you haven't learnt properly? Or better yet, make a bloody thread about it so we can have something spinny related to discuss... but noooooooo, that would be do easy wouldn't it? And after all, strugz already asked ya, but you obviously have no intention of any 'doing' only of the 'complaining'. if 'doology' wasn't such a gay american word, I'd use it here.

Are you trying to use "less effort" instead of EASIER. cos that's how I'm reading it.

I think it takes "less effort" to learn a figure of eight than an elbow wrap, "less effort" to practise it till it's smooth, and "less effort" to integrate it into your spinning.

" but that doesn't mean that if you find something to do with a 3 clubs of difficulty x, i can't find something to do with 3 balls that's difficulty x+1. Difficulty is chosen by the user, and the difficulty of an entire discipline not determined by it's entry level."

I would agree with this. Unfortunately though, I think all of spinning so far has a sort of ceiling of difficulty which isn't very high. Tell me something in spinning that is as difficult as elbow fishtails.

and obviously spinning doesn't have any names for combos... like pinwheel, or fountain...

(my anti-spin is normally reverse. so tongue )


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by: mcp


Tell me something in spinning that is as difficult as elbow fishtails.



fluid figure 8 with 4 5fts in the one hand, now thats a mind job and a half wink


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:with a single staff, <slap>

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:reverse lynx? ubbangel

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:non-contact! <slap>

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


afghan_bingo
afghan_bingo

member
Location: Calgary, Canada
Member Since: 20th Sep 2005
Total posts: 116
Posted:seriously, does it really matter?

we were somewhere near barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:<slap>

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:eek

(slap again)

just in case mcp missed......

of course its worth it - what else am i going to read this mornin!!!!

Oh and for the record - reverse lynx - of course its contact !?!


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."


T&B
T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:Well I enjoyed that. But sandy's coming down here this afternoon and to be sure I'm not going to think about a word of this and just have a wicked spinning session. so long suckers tongue

Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:i dunno you kinda hold the staff with your legs ...... is a figure 8 done with the staff pinched in the elbow contact ..... ubbangel rolleyes ubblol spank ubbangel

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:is a figure of eight with the staff stuck up your ass contact?

ubbangel ubblol

T&B: goddamn slack hippies! GET A JOB! wink


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted: Written by: mcp


T&B: goddamn slack hippies! GET A JOB! wink



ditto

Yeh! or have mine!

*looks out window*

frown


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: strugz



*looks out window*

frown



*looks out strugz window*

oooOOOOooo, dancin' girls! ubbrollsmile


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by: mcp


is a figure of eight with the staff stuck up your ass contact?



ubblol i recon youd have to do some mad crazy acrobatics to get the ends to both trace out a figure of 8, id say it cant be done but im sure someone will prove me wrong again .... although it would make for an entertaining video confused ubblol


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:First of all, i want to make clear that i think megs obsession with "difficulty of trick=quality of trick" is a bit sad and obsessive tongue



Surely being able to get things clean is a good thing, and the main problem of all contact i see is it's lack of cleanliness, which makes me disinclined to spend any more of my time learning it. Exactly like poi tangles in fact.



Also, you seem to be misunderstanding my complaints. I agree that complex spinning patterns are harder to describe than complex contact patterns, and wasn't asking for new stuff to get posted on HOP about spinny stuff. The reason i brought up the number of contact posts in the new moves thread was to highlight the imbalance which is also in effect wherever i hang around with staffers in the real world. Any time i try to hang out with a group of staff people, i usually end up wandering off after a few minutes of watching them do, yes, contact contact contact contact contact contact.



Having said that...



Well, to make a figure eight as hard as an elbow fishtail i'd probably start to add variations of movement of centre of rotation, dynamic phase change (pointing the stick in different directions relative to the pattern), dynamic timing variation and dynamic crossover point manipulation. The more demanding i make the changes that i'm aiming for, the harder the move gets.



Another question: If spinning is so easy, how come so many people can't learn anti figure 8?



Also: your "main" measure of difficulty is "qualifying" whereas mine seems to be "mastering". This makes your measure bounded, whereas mine is unbounded.



Ceiling of difficulty? Come outside girl, and stop looking at the world through your dirty windows tongue


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted: Written by: mcp


 Written by: strugz



*looks out window*

frown



*looks out strugz window*

oooOOOOooo, dancin' girls! ubbrollsmile



where? did i miss them.......... were they naked?

Damn rolleyes

& yes simian, your are right, i couldnt agree more, Meg does have dirty windows - i mean, sh1te man you saw her kitchen didnt you wink

ubbangel

***although im lead to believe that was ALL ben-ja-mens doing***

ubbrollsmile


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:ubblol ive been working closely with the military since returning home for close on a year and half trying to replicate bioweapons on a similar scale to what was in that video and we are not even remotely close

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Ben: All you need to do is forget your medicine and then go on a week long eating binge, worse than any pregnant womans... I mean steak with chocolate and apricot jam topping... I mean really!

"megs obsession with "difficulty of trick=quality of trick" is a bit sad and obsessive"

Putting words in my mouth. I never said contact was better, just HARDER. tongue It's not my fault that popped into your head, freudian slips and all that....

Yes, I do think getting things clean is good. It's not my fault you've given up on contact. I haven't and I still think all my tricks can get cleaner, that's why I practise them. Furthermore I think that practising harder tricks will increase my control of the staff and lead to me cleaning up the easier tricks quicker. I particularly enjoy it cos I know I have about 20 years of spinning left to do.

Fair enough if your complaint isn't about that. Maybe thou, the internet world affects the real world and vice versa? Maybe if you started a thread about it on hop, people would go and try to learn it and teach other people it, and after a while you'd be stood there watching somebody do a variation of it?

do you mean anti-spin figure of eight or reverse figure of eight? Cos I find teaching the anti-spin one beat a hella lot easier than teaching figure of eight. Mostly cos I've done the former more.

I've already accepted that there is no mastering for me. Unless I go and live inna cave for the next ten years. (with mirrors all along the walls.)

Oh wow, so we have different views on difficulty. Way to sidestep the issue. Using yours... contact is still harder to master, and using mine, contact is still harder to 'do'.

"Ceiling of difficulty? Come outside girl, and stop looking at the world through your dirty windows "

I just cleaned my glasses! tongue

And hell My last video consisted half and half(ish) of spinning and contact.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted: Written by: megalicious

I think that practising harder tricks will increase my control of the staff and lead to me cleaning up the easier tricks quicker



i think you're over generalising there. climbing mount everest might make me better at putting tents up, but far less so than actually practising putting tents up.
practicing contact doesn't make me a better closed-hand spinner, at least not to anywhere near the same extent as practicing closed-hand spinning.

 Written by: megneto

I've already accepted that there is no mastering for me.


We're on the same page then. How can closed-hand spinning have a 'ceiling of difficulty' and be 'easy' if you accept that you can't master it?

 Written by:

Using yours... contact is still harder to master


Ah, not quite the same page still... No, contact is not harder to master, because there isn't a point at which you can be said to have mastered contact or spinning. Either can be taken to any level of difficulty you choose to set.

your last video was the one with fenfire and the ninja? cos i liked that one loads and loads smile

i miss the ninja frown


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:the ninja is a dude.

<if you're reading this steve, don't let it go to your head, you = gay>

I was talking about hard contact moves versus easy ones. (at that point.) I've already made my argument about contact moves vs spinning moves. Your rebuttal to that was : well figure of eight maybe" to which I could reply "think about it some more" but can't be bothered right now.

"I've already accepted that there is no mastering for me."

I was actually talking about contact at this point. But the point still stands, as mastery is impossible to attain. Happily I don't want to master spinning. I just want to do it well.

There are degrees of infinity. Real infinity and Integer infinity. If you could count to the 'end' of infinity, it would take you longer to count to the end of Real infinity, than integer infinity. That's how I can compare 'mastery' of spinning and contact. (and I'll bet you can guess which way round my analogy is.)

No, my last one, as the long one in tepooka and my new flat, with anime theme tune music and made for ado-p in response to his asking for it.

The full version of Complete and Utter W. will be out soon hopefully. (The teaser was just the ok bits...)

And then me and steve should be moving onto to something more sensibly silly... biggrin


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:maybe if you drank less "edinburgh tap water" you wouldnt need to go be all meditate like in a cave .... you could go to a pikey fun fair and go into one of those mirror mazes ubblove

offtopic

durbs showed me some cool antispin doubles flowery stuff when he was passing through ubbidea me thinks mr monkey may need to do a video highlighting the possibilities of spinny staff and meg well ..... you could .... be ninja .... and .... do stuff.... with some things.... and possibily some more stuff ... next to the things


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


T&B
T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:Unfortunately I seem to be starting a job in a week and a half, the day after our performance at Play frown

Arr well in the mean time I think i'll have a spin 2day and one tomorrow and maybe afew next week tongue tongue tongue


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:oi, with the misquoting!
 Written by: me

Well, to make a figure eight as hard as an elbow fishtail i'd probably start to add variations of movement of centre of rotation, dynamic phase change (pointing the stick in different directions relative to the pattern), dynamic timing variation and dynamic crossover point manipulation. The more demanding i make the changes that i'm aiming for, the harder the move gets.


which is not really the same as
 Written by: me, apparently

well figure of eight maybe


If you have a disagreement with that first paragraph? Other than "think about it some more" that is...


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:**pulls down trousers and shakes arse at screen**

dam if only tim could see tongue


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: simian


bah, like you need more than figure 8.

Thats typical of your blinkered and incredibly narrow view of spinning meg. Just something to do inbetween contact eh?




from the first page, dumbo! I wasn't quoting your recent post, I was quoting that ^

rolleyes

Does anybody know why strugz is mooning T&B? eek


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:viiiiiiiiiiiiiiideomeoooooo ooooor a dual or a video dual or better still a dual video ...... or a dualing video

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted:yeh i reckon they should thrown it down at play and battle it out hiphop style so each person get like 5 mins each 2/3 rounds and the winner is judged by crowd reaction lol

"the geeks have got you" - Gayle


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