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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Hi every one! This thread is to ask you what you think about the idea of a world poi association. Poi is a hobby in great expension all over the world and we should soon be thinking about a World Poi Association. This association could contain a great tutorial with the official way of doing moves, the different dansing style and also a registration for school and events. The hobby would then become a sport like baton twirling. We could have national institution and regulations for schools ( like in martial arts) so that poi would evolve faster and would have the credit it deserve. biggrin It you have any idea about how to acheave this plz write them down wink
Cheers
Carl weavesmiley


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Hi again Rowyn,



It appears that spinning culture is very different from baton twirling, at least on HoP. We have different values, different desires and different ways of doing things.



You have mentioned a couple of times that you "don't understand" the attitude that people are expressing here (although you have also stated that you respect it smile ). I think it would be very beneficial to understand the culture of spinning to assist you in shaping your ideas and making your case.



Whilst I know you have never said this, and probably don't think this, the implication of your persistence is that you are saying you know what is best for spinners as a group. I am sure this is not what is intended, but the implication is quite insulting.



As a number of us have said, we have informal organising that has been going on for a very long time, and works very well for us.



Take the time to understand why doing it this way works for us. Then think about what you are proposing. And also think about what it means if the wider community doesn't want this (by the way, you are only talking to a small sub-set here, test the idea in other places too). If the wider community doesn't want this, would you give up the idea? If the answer is "no" then does it mean that this idea is more about what you want than what the community wants?


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Altough i can understand what you are talking about, you must also understand that I personaly think that my way of seeing thing could work for the best.

I dont understand why its such an issue for you that i have an opinion that i beleave in. Sharing ideas is all i am asking .

If you have a vision of how your idea can fit with mine then its great other wise its too bad..;)

Give your opinion thats all i am asking. Im just proposing suggestion remember. ubbrollsmile



I can understand that change can be frightning for some people, but take the time to read well everything i said and you'll see that what i am proposing does not take anything from the underground community. Exept may be giving it more visibility.

I also stated that i did not have any pretention what so ever.

If every body would get rid of their opinion because of the mass there would be no freedom of thinking.



If you read the thread, not every one as a negative opinion about my ideas. wink

EDITED_BY: Rowyn (1147742190)


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:hi again Rozi Could you plz share with me what the culture of spinning is for you... because i cant see why its conflicting. People that does twirling are usualy open minded, and im proposing cooperation smile

May be my ideas will bring different way of thinking to poi, wich is for me a great thing. biggrin


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I have already talked extensively throughout my posts about what the spinning culture is for me. As have others.

But to make it more explicit. When I go along to a gathering, it is informal. There is no set teacher, and everyone has the space to either share their ideas, or stand apart and try something different. Whilst I don't object to the idea of teachers, I object to the idea of a "world" association. I believe that if you regulate this, you will undervalue and undermine the informal learning that occurs at gatherings (and online). You will also undercut people's ability to think critically about the information they are being presented with, and their ability to explore for themselves.

When it comes to this stuff I will point out that I am undertaking a Masters in Education. So my opinion on this is formed from a background of understanding learning. Learning that occurs outside a classroom is constantly undervalued, whilst formal learning often doesn't provide the richness of learning in context. If you want a technical term, look for Legitimate Peripheral Participation.

Please note that once again, as I have stated over and over, I am only referring to what I believe and what a number of others have stated. I do not believe that my way is the absolute right way and would strongly recommend that you put this idea in front of others.

I am however deeply concerned when you say that "I personaly think that my way of seeing thing could work for the best.". Whilst this demonstrates admirable passion and self-belief, it seems to be preventing you from really hearing what other people are saying here when we are saying "no, not for me".


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by: Rowyn

My aproach is a better organised one that will make poi ...... more fun.


umm How? shrug

Ah-ha!

 Written by:

because it will bring more people doing the thing.



No, that just means more people would be doing the thing, not that there would be more fun because there is more people.
A greater amount of thermal energy yes, more fun no.

smile


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wonderloey
wonderloey

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Member Since: 21st Feb 2006
Total posts: 255
Posted:Rowyn, the culture of spinning has its roots in the flower-child era. Over the years it has found fertile ground in underground movements of all kinds including underground dance parties/raves. In the kind of spinning culture I see, I see an informal and friendly environment where people can learn to spin without the need for formal lessons. The history of spinning means it draws people who are not within the mainstream of society, who may not necessarily find the same level of kinship within a more formal environment.

One of the things I love about the spinning culture is the positive nature of it - that it seeks to explore possibilities rather than define that which already exists. The informal nature of the culture of spinning allows spinners to make connections easily - you see someone spinning in any open space and you'll generally find someone to chat with.

I know you are talking about co-operation, but within a formal rather than informal context. Its this formality which is a real turn off.


"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman

Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:most of the my opinions have been already put forward by others more eloquent than myself - definitely throwing my lot in with the against side.

everything in our live seems to be driving towards institution, regalations, organisations. I just like have this community as a free form organism without that heirachy.

 Written by:

you must also understand that I personaly think that my way of seeing thing could work for the best.


fair enough.
 Written by:

I dont understand why its such an issue for you that i have an opinion that i beleave in. Sharing ideas is all i am asking .



thats fine - youve asked the question, shared your views, we've shared our views - mostly disagreeing with your vision. Just because were disagreeing with you over and over again doesnt mean we're not sharing wink

 Written by:

I can understand that change can be frightning for some people, but take the time to read well everything i said and you'll see that what i am proposing does not take anything from the underground community



ive read everything you said, and still disagree with you - for most of the reasons already stated.
I do not see, and probably never will, how this community could not change for the worse with regulations, institutions, turning it into a sport like baton twirling. Im not adverse to change, progress and evolution - but i simply do not believe your proposal is the right direction.

but i can agree to disagree with you smile

 Written by:


hi again Rozi Could you plz share with me what the culture of spinning is for you... because i cant see why its conflicting. People that does twirling are usualy open minded, and im proposing cooperation



we are open minded - but that doesnt mean we dont have opinions and will agree with every idea put to us.

personally i believe that part of that open-mindedness in this community comes from the spontaneous creativity - not just in the activity - but in the people you meet - and being outside the scary regimented corpratised structured buearocracy i see every day.

but hey - i live down in Australia - maybe i've just had different upbringing in the spinning world to you? but i think most of the many travellers and beautiful traveller from other countries i have met in this community would agree with me.

peace out peace
E ubbrollsmile


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Tanx for your precision Rozi I find interesting your aproach.
I personnaly dont think it would change anything to whats already happening in poi culture. It would just bring Poi an occasion to have more freedom for performers and more visibility.

An association would bring a solid structure that could be valued as a reference. Not undermind spinning culture. HoP could be a great add to such an association as well as Spher like i mentionned before.
Such an association would not influence the way teacher will help develop the skill of every spinnner individualy. It would just be used like HoP but with out hte buisness side.

Well i am not trying to change your mind wink Im just trying to make my vision as clear as possible.. I cant get the aprobation from everybody wink I ear you when you say no but i'll still try biggrin


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:There is no business side of HoP if you don't want there to be.

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Nice Demtrassi, I like your clear way of disagreement. I think that i made myself clear anough in that thread to people to have their own opinion. Thats the main reason why i was replying to this thread. :P

I just have a different aproach i guess..:P What i mean by proposing cooperation was all about the association not about the thread biggrin

Cheers to you all.


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:hi again FireNice, If there is no buisness style to Hop why does it cost Hop point to put pictures on your account or video wink and why is there no change is the tutorial for such a long time? Because they want you to purchase their product :P
EDITED_BY: Rowyn (1147748061)


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:erm no. actually i think the first expansion of my gallery was when I'd been on here a while, but I forget. it accelerates the process, but you do realise there are people who don't use their gallery? As for the second bit.... wink

and besides, there are way more free videos in the video section than in the HoP vids, which in my opinion are much more informative.


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:may be i have been looking in the wrong forums.:P I see mostly people spinning the same tricks in does vidos. I never saw atomics in video for example.

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by: Rowyn

why does it cost Hop point to put pictures on your account or video





Because the message boards are provided free of charge.

The pictures and videos, due to being larger in size, presumeably take much more bandwidth. A small amount of money is needed to pay for the hosting. HOP takes up Gb of space made from all the little letters everyone types. shrug



 Written by: Rowyn

why is there no change is the tutorial for such a long time?





Why does there need to be? umm

I know the 5 beat weave video is hideous ( wink ) but all the basics are there that anyone needs to start spinning from basic movements, to harder ones.



If it aint broke, dont fix it!



and as for the same tricks in the videos... have you seen mine and simians videos? Have you seen the spinach sessions? have you seen anything with "experimental" in the title? wink


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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Actually if you could just give me some links cause i saw your vids witch are nice by the way. but experimental i dont think i saw alot....Spinash session was nice as well

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: Rowyn



hi again FireNice, If there is no business style to Hop

why does it cost Hop point to put pictures on your account or video :P





What FireNice said was:

If you don't WANT there to be...



HoP is a free service provided by a commercial entity. Of course it is a brilliant marketing strategy; it is also a brilliant public service that has naturally and organically helped develop a worldwide community, in the way that community wants to develop.



Anyone can choose to buy from the HoP shop because the products are good, and/or we want to support the whole enterprise.



But no-one has to.



So far as gallery, video, self promotion/mutual learning: Many of us have our own websites, and are free to link to them. Or we can link to any other free or paid video or picture hosts we want.



If HoP closed down, it would be awful. A centre would disappear from the spinning world. A black hole in the twirling universe etc. *A* centre, not THE centre.

But in the meantime HoP has spawned galaxies of other networks and sites and communities that would continue. And with no demand on participants for financial contribution or allegiance in anyway. Apart from some simple 'rules' that are basic courtesy.



In the time I have been on, HoP admin has shown extremely little politics or powertripping (although mods have power to shut down discussion or ban people etc, 99.999% of what is non interventionist)



Rowyn, if you want to start an association, do. People who want it will love it. It may grow to be a wonderful thing over many decades. Some of us might even join wink if we saw benefits in it. I suspect however that it would be like Martial Arts associations... lots of different ones furthering their own interests. In the meantime raising awareness.. but not necessarily making anything more 'true' or creative than martial arts would have been without them. And there'll still always be street fighters who do without any of it!



But in my humble opinion, no 'association' would ever be able to match what HoP is already doing. I am not being closed minded to say that. I have thought about it.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted: Written by: newgabe


 Written by: Rowyn


hi again FireNice



What FireNice said was:




you all do realise the spelling is deliberate wink


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:It's taken me a while to get around to posting in here again, but I'd like to jump back to a point made about trying to make poi spinning like baton twirling.



Currently, the United States Twirling Association is considering restricting what tricks/moves are allowed in their competitions (even freestyle sections) - partially because they don't consider the floor to be safe enough to do gymnastics on, but also because they don't think it's fair on the people who can't do them.



I never, ever want to see spinning get to that level of regulation. It doesn't help spinning evolve, it pushes it into a niche where it'll sit for ages because of the paperwork involved in letting something new in.

For the same reason, I never want to see teaching regulated.

The more regulation and restrictions you impose the less variation and personal flavour people will spin with.



I honestly don't think that an association the way you describe it is a good idea, I think it'll end up smothering the spinning of a lot of people.



However, move the basis away from regulating how people spin and into a completely peer to peer network over which people can share information and I'd be all for it.

Add in bits that work to make spinning fire safer (which the NAFAA seem to do), and bits that work to get spinners a decent wage if they're performing and help them if they get screwed over, then I'd probably offer to help where I could.



But please don't try and regulate everything, it doesn't need it.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted: Written by: Rowyn


An association would bring a solid structure that could be valued as a reference.



I don't want a solid structure. I like the way we spinners amble on, twist and turn, meet by chance, learn by coincidence, bimble into new moves.... solid structure, by it's nature, means restrictions, confines and boundaries. I don't want that!

Long may the ungoverned, unregulated nature of the spinning community carry on. I for one love it the way it is!


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted:ditto biggrin

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Tir_na_nOg
journeyman
Location: Geographic Location
Member Since: 20th May 2005
Total posts: 55
Posted:I wish you could still post up pics and stuff without buying things from HOP. I do think that is a little pity,

but they who decide have chosen...


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Why is the important question. smile

I think this boils down to what Rowyn wants poi to become in the future.

If you want a sport with standardised moves, points and competition then an Association is good way to go.

I believe this would quell creativity and innovation.

It's not what most poeple here want for the future. myself included.

This is an old argument as someone said earlier... shrug


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:Tir na ng: You can... I've never bought anything from the HoP strore yet I can post pictures and so on. You just have to post more!

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:If you want a sport with standardised moves, points and competition then...

Become a baton twirler, it's that simple smile


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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loki.c1687
loki.c1687

addict
Location: Leeds
Member Since: 13th Jul 2004
Total posts: 546
Posted:Rowyn if an idea is to take off there needs to be a gap or a need for it i guess people and me dont want to see the cuture of poi or spinning change, grow yes! but we love this because its a art of sorts, its all been said b4.but the main thing i would like to point out THIS IS NOT BATON!
LOVE MIKE.C


Rules and responsibities:
These are the ties that bind us.
We do what we do,because of who we are.
If we did otherwise,we would not be ourselves.
I will do what i have to do
And i will do what i must..

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