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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:A baby is born to parents who are ill, but controlled with medications. They were aware that any child they might have naturally could kill the mother and possibly have a 2% chance of a heart condition.

Of course he was born with it. After a year of surgeries he was deemed well. That was 1.5 years ago.

Then suddenly, out of the blue, his little heart stopped and no matter what, it wouldn't start again.

This bright little spark in the world simply went out.

And I am not sure what to do or say. I feel for the parents, who helped me out in a seriously rough spot in my life. How do I help them? Saying "Sorry" or "Sympathies" is simply not enough. Money as a donation doesn't help. All of us who have healthy, happy children have made them cry simply by looking at them.

I want to go to the wake and calling to show my support but I simply don't know how.

They are not spiritual people so they take no comfort in heaven or god.
And really, is there comfort in losing one so little?

I understand miscarriages and can handle them.
I can understand newborn deaths or older deaths but the young who have made such a strong impact and yet not really lived....
confused


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:just let them know that you are there for them when they are ready to talk or need a shoulder to cry on, no doubt they have many many tears to let out.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:You feel the need to help them. Follow your instincts.

Sending cards avoids a certain awkwardness but shows support.

They will cry when they see your healthy child, but they can do it in a comfortable environment that you can offer, let them grieve on you where it is ok to rant and feel it is an unfair world. Let them get those feelngs out with someone who can handle emotional outpourings.

Drop in with a picture frame, when we lost someone close we put extra pictures up of this person so when we talk to them its less disembodied. Write or find a poem about the child that embodies and rejoices in what the bright spark bought to the world. They will cry when they read it but may find comfort in the pleasure their child bought to others.

If they are gardeners give them a voucher to a nursery so they can reconnect with nature. Some places have memory lanes where you can purchase a plaque for a tree in memory.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu


JonnyRok
JonnyRok

Look! I'm Darth Bunny!
Location: Sunny South Africa
Member Since: 2nd May 2005
Total posts: 446
Posted:I have lost someone close to me before (my sister), and while the experience cant be the same, it is very similar in respects. When something like this happens, usually the last thing that you wanna hear is how sorry everyone is for you, all you really want is someone there, so you dont feel alone. just let them know that you are there for them, and if they do talk to you about it, dont act strange or embarrassed or anything, just be there. Well thats what it was like for me anyway. Its not easy but with enough support it is definately surmountable. Hope this helps smile

Do what you want coz a pirate is free,
You are a pirate!
Yo ho fiddle dee dee, being a pirate is alright to be,
Do what you want coz a pirate is free,
You are a pirate!


dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

addict
Location: Cannock, staffordshire
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2005
Total posts: 667
Posted:all u can do is be there for them if and when they need you for support show them that



similar has happened to a girl i know just last week, she lost her boyfriend 5 months ago just before christmas to a car accident she was pregnant at the time and last week her baby died of cot death aged 4 months old, it is awful and shocks everyone because it is a such a young age and seems so unfair



but as a lot of people believe there is a purpose to everything in life.



the greif will pass soon and they will be able to move on, never forgetting but the pain will be less painful.



just be there for them, there is nothing more you can really do.



i really feel for them as i do any parent to lose a child, i dont think i could ever survive losing any of my children.



frown


enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek

stepped up promotions


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted:I cry every time a child dies. I see it maybe two or three times a year. It's the worst thing that can happen to anyone. To lose your child. Perhaps the only worse thing is to watch your own child lose a child.

Pele, nothing you or anyone can do will make them feel better. Such a wound cuts in a way that only time can heal to a scar.

All you can do is be there. Don't hide. Even if you think your presence isn't welcome. Cry with them.

And this is a time to remind yourself how much you love Noah. Remember all the things that made you laugh and smile and feel happy when you were a kid and fill his life with those things. Even while he learns how awful the world is and that even sweet, innocent children can die, teach him that life goes on and that we should celebrate every day we are given here and together.

There but for the Grace of God go we.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


Sixth
Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London
Member Since: 31st Oct 2005
Total posts: 327
Posted:The fact that this sad event has happened does not change the fact that it did happen. All you can do is talk to them and give them 'both' some time. Both will be affected on different levels and there will be some emotional tensions between the two for a while.

Really I hate to say this but they both have to carry on. For instance when a friend of mine recently talked about commiting suicide over msn at 4am in the morning, I had to drop my uni work and rush over to check up on them. I just kept on telling them they had to move on and for most situations, you just have to carry on no matter how much it hurts & talk about your problems because welling up negative thoughts and emotions isn't healthy. Just keep on talking to them both thats the best thing. Think about it at the wake everyone will be in a sombre mood and they wont really want to talk but it will help 'alot' if you could open that gate.

I hope they both get better soon. take care.


I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.


BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:Doc said most of what I would suggest,quite beautifully...



but there is also a practical side that might be useful?



I know when I was quite overwhelmed with grief, I could not manage the day to day things in my life at all. Food, shopping cleaning, driving... it all just kinda seemed irrelevant and tiring, so I stopped doing most of it. I was trapped in a fog.



Fortunately, some people helped out, making me freezer food and dropping it by, and then I was lucky enough someone came to just sort of take over that mundane stuff for me for a while.



Are there any practical things you might be able to take over/do for them? Just help lighten their load that way?



Also, during the first three months after a sudden death there is a lot of that kind of support often offered by the community. Then it can be a bit of a shock when the wave of compassion and care naturally recedes, and people go back to their normal lives, thinking you are all right now-- when really you may still be completely discombobulated. So, I guess I am saying dont forget to be there for them a little later too, the grieving and adjusting will be a long slow process for most...Sometimes it is even more painful later inthe process, after the crisis management initial stage is passed.



A big hug to you for being so caring , thinking about their needs at this difficult sad time!


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Thank you all so much for all of the insights.

I am still so...beside myself wondering.
I just don't know...ya know?

It does make me appreciate Noah so much more.
It makes me appreciate everything so much more.

And when I think about it, I thank the powers that be for everyday with my son. And I tear at the notion that I might ever lose him.

Thank you andrealee. I hadn't thought about those little things.

Gnor, those are great insights. Thank you.

The mother and father both suffer from heart illnesses. The mother has not been taking her meds, and literally she could die any moment as well. I understand where she is at. I do. I do not have any words to convince her to attempt to live because I do not believe if I were in the same situation I would do any different than her.

Thank you all for the insights and help. I appreciate it so much.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Eera
old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay
Member Since: 29th May 2003
Total posts: 1107
Posted:It's kind of natural to want to avoid talking directly about it, but a friend who went through the same thing was upset that no-one would even mention it; everyone was with her, but there was this weird circumlocution in that no-one wanted to acknowledge why they were there.

She wanted to celebrate the short life of her child, and as soon as she tried, everyone clammed up and got uncomfortable.

Maybe writing them a card with all the good things you remember about the child in it would help? It might show that there are people holding onto memories and were not about to try and forget the child ever existed.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.


Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:In my family I talk about my deceased Dad all the time. Noone else seems to but when I am up at the farm I use his sayings constantly and it takes my family a little aback at first . To me its a healthy way of keeping his memory alive. By the time I leave mum is saying them all again as well.

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu


TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Words cant describe how awful and heart breaking loosing a child can be. I came so close to losing my eldest when she was only six months old, she is now 5 (going on 15). The pain that parents feel when this happens must be so overwhelming and impossible to imagine. It wont ever go away, but some parents find it gets easier to manage with time.

My dad lost a sibling, who died decades ago, I think he had Down's Syndrome, and my dad never spoke to me once about him, though I have seen pictures. My grandmother, when she was alive never spoke to us about it either. But I think she should have kept his memory alive more than she did.

A person only truly dies when they are forgotten about.


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted:Pele, it's a Jewish tradition to bring food to a bereaved family. It's customary to bring something sweet as a reminder that there is still sweetness in life, although "meat-and-potatoes" food is also acceptable and welcomed, since, as andrealee pointed out, they probably aren't in much of a mood to cook right now.

Make a casserole or something that can be put into ziplock bags and frozen. Chili, soup, whatever.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Another way of thinking about it is that you probably need to detach yourself from your own feelings of helplessness. You don't know how what you do for these people to show your support will affect them.

Whether or not you think a certain gesture like a card or poem will be seen as crass or worthless, or words of support will be seen as empty promises in the face of their loss. These feelings may need to put on the back burner and try to think of how YOU would want people to treat you if it was your kids. Would you want people to leave you alone or would you welcome ANY gesture of support.

By all means share your feelings of your own grief for the deceased. It might show them that you're not skirting around the subject just the for sake of 'being strong' for them...

I am somewhat lucky that I've not lost anyone to unnatural causes. My grandfather dying was upsetting but I accepted that it was his time. So I'm not sure how much my words are worth but I hope it's just an objective, alternative way of looking at things....

Just be genuine in whatever you do for them.


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:

I like the idea to give a native plant (hardier, more difficult to kill for us with brown thumbs). It can be tree shrub vine flower whatever.
Think about a plant with folkloric meaning, or better, fruiting or fragrant one, that they can enjoy as time goes on.

bayberry (great fragrance), oak(slow growing sturdy strength) maple willow yew hawthorn (powerful in celtic myths) dogwood quaking aspen (some believed that spirits made them quake) witch hazel wild strawberrys ivy raspberry cherry

I find comfort in this poem and pull it out for all occassions that involve a death (funerals, graduations, breakups)

Erat Hora
Ezra Pound

Thank you, whatever comes. And then she turned
And, as the ray of sun on hanging flowers
Fades when the wind hath lifted them aside,
Went swiftly from me. Nay, whatever comes
One hour was sunlit and the most high gods
May not make boast of any better thing
Than to have watched that hour as it passed.


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed



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