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Forums > Social Discussion > Trafalgar Square is a NO ZONE for poi or staff

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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:jus lettin you know....the area cretins refrain you from staffing or poiing.....yes....my fluffy poi could endanger somes one's life.......even when im in a clear area with the nearest ppl smooching away on the bench 10 metres away...whats your views on such cretins? I know theyre right to a certain extent but constantly harrassing me to "move along" and get of of the area seems a bit harsh. confused

I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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will_uk
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

member
Location: UK

Total posts: 83
Posted: Written by: Up

Mr Majestik
tryhard apathetic

Member #6867
Reged: 09/03/04
Loc: under down under

Mr Majestik is a Nostralian HOPper smile



Aha. You see I assumed that someone who was 'down under' would be in Oz, but someone who was 'under down under' would be in Europe (sort of like a double negative).

The tea party sounds exciting though. Are there mad hatters in attendance?


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: Sixth


no hash brownies for you offtopic offtopic offtopic



woah, easy now ubblol

or there'll be no doughnuts and coffee for you either tongue

anyone know what authority they have?

asking them exactly what their level of authority is and asking to see it documented tends to get right up jobsworth's noses - especially when they don't actually have any authority at all wink


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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misscorinthian
SILVER Member since Sep 2005

misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 784
Posted:Ok so I just had a quick look for some info on Trafalgar Square- apparently, the Square is "not a public space, but is private property of the GLA".

GLA being the Greater London Authority. Who ever they are.

So it seems the Square has it's own bye laws. One of them states that people are prohibited to " organise or take part in any assembly, display, performance, representation, parade, procession or theatrical event". Unfortunately, I think you could easily plop poi/staff/juggly stuff quite easily into that category- even if you were just practising, rather than officially performing.

I also seems that these Heritage Wardens do have the right to remove you, and demand your name/address. As this is written in the bye laws, I guess refusal to comply would be breaking the law and therefore grounds for arrest.

Oh, and just in case you were tempted, you can't feed the birds, wash/dry any clothing or fabric, or ride any animal.
shrug


XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:awwww i and i wanted to feed my dog some pigeons... frown

then again miss rules were made to be broken biggrin

see me on the evening news some time next month when i get back to London angel


I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:all those byelaws also apply to parliamnent square too, iirc.



being asked to leave one of the squares for spinning by yourself is a tenous interpretation of those laws i reckon.



but, like most sets of byelaws, there is very likely to be a clause in there somewhere that says "if a policeman [or someone with localised authority, like our beloved heritage wardens in this case] decides that you are in breach of one of the byelaws, you have to do what they say" i.e. however they wish to interpret the laws, you can't argue :boohiss:



still worth pushing your luck though.



especially if you study and take a copy of the byelaws with you smile





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:yes ..yes..i could picture myself dragging a suitcase full of lawbooks and sitting down discussing law all day...tbh....that would kill me....or it would kill someone clap

I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:even better then - ask where the official boundaries of the square are, move to the bit closest to where you were and carry on spinning there.

and make sure they can see you smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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misscorinthian
SILVER Member since Sep 2005

misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 784
Posted:Surprisingly, they managed to write only a few concise laws stating how you are not allowed to do pretty much anything. Not much reading..... www.london.gov.uk/mayor/trafalgar_square/byelaws_nov02.jsp

...if the link works.


XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:yep, the "you have to do what the wardens/police say" clause is in there:

 Written by: stoopid byelaws


Acts prohibited within the Squares

3(7) No person shall within the Squares fail to comply with a reasonable direction given by an authorised person to leave the Squares



grrr.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:as a matter of fact i will do just that but come to think of it...embankment has some nice places to spin

I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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misscorinthian
SILVER Member since Sep 2005

misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 784
Posted:Yup. I reckon the spinning just outside the boundaries is a good one- if you want to prove a point.

Sixth, you may feel that rules are there to be broken- but get arrested? Doing poi?? It does sound ridiculous but unfortunately they have stated quite clearly that it is "prohibited".

The whole thing seems so stupid it kind of does make me want to challenge them... but if they really are that uptight about these rules then I wouldn't want to risk getting a criminal record over it...


XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:fortunately for me I was always good at escape and evade not that im going to tell you my secret hiding spots in london but its easy to outwit the police + it helps if your an architecture student + free running...having said all this...im just gonna do it n e ways...yes im that stubborn....Ill do it until i get told to clear off bah im going to hyde park.

I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:of course you could hire out the entire thing having really annoyed them over it and do it anyway devil

or you could do the really sensible thing and come spinning with us on clapham common ubbloco tongue


back

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Clapham blows wink
Move the clapham common spin to Trafalgar square.
Its bound to be quiet on Sundays, and if we make it a weekly thing, the authorities will know we are coming and not bother us wink


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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:hmm there must be a place in london...wait i got it! i think i may have a place.....but its a pigeon poo bombing site its the green patches of grass opposite the odeon!

why change? :
Hagendaze opposite
restaurants plentiful + fastfood
nearby cash machines
(ive seen ppl sunbathing there...so should be ok) spank
7 mins walk away from charring cross station
nearby bus routes
opposite capital radio biggrin
a nearby fountain to jump into incase stop drop and roll doesnt help.helpubbrollsmile

bad points:
too many people
over-zealous pigeonsangeleek
old ppl sitting nearby
sufficient room for maybe 20 ppl spinning
fire maybe out of the questiondevil

meh what do you think? ill probably drop by clapham...hmm June?
bah wait for me ill go test the site out


I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Im not spinning in Leicester Square for the following reasons..
no wait. wrong thread. offtopic

*shakes head in utter disbelief that he cant find a ball spherical enough to roll down a flight of stairs*


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ickleMatt


ickleMatt

enthusiast
Location: L.O.N.D.O.N.

Total posts: 242
Posted:I think the point about spinning, or juggling, or what ever you want to do, in traflagar square is the privatisation (and subsequent santiation) of public space.

Reclaim the streets!


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: Sixth


jus lettin you know....the area cretins refrain you from staffing or poiing.....yes....my fluffy poi could endanger somes one's life.......even when im in a clear area with the nearest ppl smooching away on the bench 10 metres away...whats your views on such cretins? I know theyre right to a certain extent but constantly harrassing me to "move along" and get of of the area seems a bit harsh. confused



Not sure how it works in England, but around here an "Officer, exactly what law am I breaking?" is probably not out of line.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:or i can take the "Dave Chappelle" approach.....Officer...I didn't know I couldnt do that ubblol

I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted: Written by: will_uk


 Written by: Up

Mr Majestik
tryhard apathetic

Member #6867
Reged: 09/03/04
Loc: under down under

Mr Majestik is a Nostralian HOPper smile



Aha. You see I assumed that someone who was 'down under' would be in Oz, but someone who was 'under down under' would be in Europe (sort of like a double negative).



no, by under down under i mean literally underneath mainland Australia, Tasmania, the second colonised state in Australia, is an island with a population of around 500 000.

 Written by: medusa

I think you might find it hard to get to spin outside parliament house in Canberra, Australia, which is where Mr Majestik I believe is talking about....



good guess, but i mean (state) parliment house in Tasmania, you'd probably get shot for attempting to spin fire on the lawns at Canberra, even though they do have perfectly manicured grass and the actual parliment is supposedly bomb proof.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted: Written by: coleman


 Written by: stoopid byelaws


Acts prohibited within the Squares

3(7) No person shall within the Squares fail to comply with a reasonable direction given by an authorised person to leave the Squares



grrr.




Emphasis mine.

I'm definately up for argueing that being asked to move on despite not breaking any laws and doing nothing wrong isn't a reasonable direction.

I feel a letter to Ken Livingstone coming on. Hopefully I'll get a sensible reply.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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CmkB
SILVER Member since Jun 2005

CmkB

Justme
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 114
Posted:how time have changed. I remember as a kid buying bird seed to feed the birds in Trafalgar Square. I think they might be afraid that you might play a game called bash the tourist..... hummmm new game....... no thats bad sorry.
I think a letter to Ken and to the City of Westminster. you can get more people to play with poi. ubbrollsmile


weavesmiley

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:We could make a petition with lots of HoPpers from round the world saying they'd HATE to come and visit London and see it acts that close-mindedly towards the performing arts, or something like that, but in fancier words wink

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:you could. and mention that in Tasmnaia we are allowed to spin on Parliment house lawns. *nods* is good smile

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Sixth
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London

Total posts: 327
Posted:haha....I tested my theory two weeks ago....one of the wardens was about to cross the road....took a second look and walked off!....yay for spinning!

This be the Trafalger Square Boundary Theory aka TSBT Monkey theory :P


I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Would anyone be up for meeting at Trafalgar square for a bit of spinning and juggling on the 2nd of July?

Bascially, I want to actually speak with a warden about it in person and ask them what their reasons for moving us on are.
I'm considering taking 'We are not busking and this is not an organised performance. We just want to have fun.' signs with me in case they try to use those reasons to get rid of us.

If we then get moved on anyway, I was thinking about heading down to the Mall, since it's closed to traffic on sundays, so we could have a spin with buckingham palace in the background. I'm after getting reasonably close, but not close enough to annoy the men with rifles wink


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:I'm up for it, bov smile

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines

Total posts: 4437
Posted:I dont see how people juggling or doing poi is any different to pavement artists and caricaturists that you get at trafalgar square

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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solar_bear
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

solar_bear

journeyman
Location: Kent, UK

Total posts: 78
Posted:I'm probably being ignorant, but I just can't see the attraction of Traf. Sq. myself confused Far too much concrete frown

The fact that several hundred skaters are allowed to roll across London, on self-policed routes, that the organisers have set themselves, with the knowledge and consent of the Metropolitan & City of London Police forces and the Royal Parks AND do it not merely once, but up to THREE TIMES A WEEK in the Summer (oh, the bliss) just goes to show what CAN be achieved with a bit of patience, negotiation and finding the right people to talk to wink

Why not try the people who run Covent Garden to begin with? It's only down the road and there's a huge open space at one end, normally reserved for buskers / performers and which is normally clear of the public. You never know, you might be able to get them to make some space for a monthly / fortnightly / weekly session, if nothing else is on.

I'm no expert at organising events, but it's clear that Traf. Sq. is already used for a number of public gigs, which attract large crowds and which have so far passed off safely AFAIK - so in theory a few spinners shouldn't be too much of a problem, if it's tacled the right way by the right people. Maybe it would be worth just popping by the Square one day and having a polite and friendly chat with a few of the wardens. Ask (hypothetically, like) who you would need to get in touch with if you happened to be thinking of organising a semi-regular public "display / workshop" sort of thing. See what they say and take it from there; there has to be a way somehow.

Even if Traf. Sq. is unattainable at the moment, there are plenty of public places in central London where you can possibly spin unhindered. I had a couple of little tryouts last week for about 45 mins from 19:00 before the skates; in Hyde Park (by the Serpentine Road) on Wednesday and by the Wellington Arch (in Hyde Park Corner) on Friday. Nobody asked me to move on and several passing tourists took photographs smile

I think one thing that everybody can do this Summer, though, is just get out there in the sunshine and start spinning where it can be seen by as many people as possible. Make it a regular sight around town, a part of the landscape, so that people get used to it and don't feel threatened by or afraid of it (like they were with skaters, 10-12 years ago). Maybe a couple of places will start to attract more people and grow into something bigger over time (a bit like the skateboarders on the South Bank).

But if someone "in authority" (no matter how menial it is) asks you to move on, please don't get all confrontational - you'll only get the rest of us a bad reputation; apart from which they probably get paid cr*p enough wages as it is, without having to take any more cr*p from you wink Just move along quietly and find somewhere else to spin and eventually you'll be left alone.


peace


It may stop, but it never ends.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:The thing is, we already have somewhere to meet regularly - clapham common.

I'm not after a regular meeting in Trafalgar Square, and certainly nothing organised to the level that requires proper planning, or anything to do with displays or workshops.

Basically, I just want to be able to spin and juggle there if I feel like it smile

At the moment, the bylaws say that unless you have written permission (probably paid for), you can't solicit money, perform or do any physical exercise that disturbs people.
Since I'll not be busking or performing and I'll make sure I'm out of the way, I don't see which bylaw I'd be breaking.

In the end, it just boils down to being moved on because a heritage warden's decided that he didn't like the look of it, which is just plain wrong in my eyes.

I really don't plan on trying to wind up anyone there, but I do want to have a chat with them, hoping to find out exactly why they want to move us on


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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