Forums > Social Discussion > Firespinning - Eco-friendly?
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
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hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Posted:
Upon reading Valura's thread out the toxic effects from the fumes from firespinning it got me thinking about other possible negative effects of firespinning. Name the environmental issues.
As well as the toxic fumes that could cause respiratory and other other health problems. There's the issue of whether our beloved pastime causes damage to the environment. Specifically, toxins in the atmosphere and CO and CO2 emissions. I'm a little rusty on my science so I'm not sure how it works so if someone would correct me on the matter if needs be.
Another issue would be that firespinning requires fuel, and with the War in Iraq being almost certainly instigated by the West's need for oil are we adding to an already spiralling problem? One could easily argue that our entire way of life is built on a need for fuel and to be completely eco-friendly and we'd best live in a straw hut with a farm.
I'm probably generalising but it seems that alot of spinners would consider themselves eco-friendly but I am wondering what thoughts people have about reconciling their environmentally-conscious views with our fuel-consuming mutual pastime?
Upon reading Valura's thread out the toxic effects from the fumes from firespinning it got me thinking about other possible negative effects of firespinning. Name the environmental issues.
As well as the toxic fumes that could cause respiratory and other other health problems. There's the issue of whether our beloved pastime causes damage to the environment. Specifically, toxins in the atmosphere and CO and CO2 emissions. I'm a little rusty on my science so I'm not sure how it works so if someone would correct me on the matter if needs be.
Another issue would be that firespinning requires fuel, and with the War in Iraq being almost certainly instigated by the West's need for oil are we adding to an already spiralling problem? One could easily argue that our entire way of life is built on a need for fuel and to be completely eco-friendly and we'd best live in a straw hut with a farm.
I'm probably generalising but it seems that alot of spinners would consider themselves eco-friendly but I am wondering what thoughts people have about reconciling their environmentally-conscious views with our fuel-consuming mutual pastime?
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
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Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
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Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
yes, but you'll find fire twirling consumes much less fuel than cars. with fire there is no other fuel, but cars there are definatly other posibilites.
what we do is immesurably insignificant compared to other forms of fuel comsupton/pollution.
yes, but you'll find fire twirling consumes much less fuel than cars. with fire there is no other fuel, but cars there are definatly other posibilites.
what we do is immesurably insignificant compared to other forms of fuel comsupton/pollution.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
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Still wiggling
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Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
True... but we're still adding to the problem, as opposed to detracting from it.
(morally, I think this also ties in to Drew's thread about toys made in China and other regions where workers aren't paid enough).
Glow/LED stuff ain't great either... still requires plastics and batteries and suchlike.
I guess flags and socks and cones are the most eco-friendly...
But... always use a spin-off can to cut down on wasted fuel!
True... but we're still adding to the problem, as opposed to detracting from it.
(morally, I think this also ties in to Drew's thread about toys made in China and other regions where workers aren't paid enough).
Glow/LED stuff ain't great either... still requires plastics and batteries and suchlike.
I guess flags and socks and cones are the most eco-friendly...
But... always use a spin-off can to cut down on wasted fuel!
Getting to the other side 
activist for HoPper liberation.
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Posted:
i think there was a similar discussion to this before, but i can't for the life of me remember what the subject is, so i couldn't find it on the search.
It is an ongoing debate though...
I don't really know what I think about this, probably we don't think about it as much as we should, but then how much do you also think about hopping in a car to go to a meet, or even on a plane if you're that way inclined towards international meets... You could in a way argue, that because it is something that brings some form of life satisfaction then it is a worthwhile expense... in balance... If you want to be really nit-picky you could argue, that utilising any of the material resources to make poi, is wasting them. someone who doesn't spin might just do that and argue, that we should redirect those resources into making kevlar suits for firemen in third world countries. That is perhaps quite improbable, but i suppose my point is, i would consider it to be about personal balance, perhaps if you choose to fire spin, you should also try and walk more...
And anyway there's not just the fuel to think about, what about the elctrical energy we use talking on HoP all day, the byproducts that might be produced from the making of man-made fibres for socks, medical resources that we might need if you get burnt...........
i think there was a similar discussion to this before, but i can't for the life of me remember what the subject is, so i couldn't find it on the search.
It is an ongoing debate though...
I don't really know what I think about this, probably we don't think about it as much as we should, but then how much do you also think about hopping in a car to go to a meet, or even on a plane if you're that way inclined towards international meets... You could in a way argue, that because it is something that brings some form of life satisfaction then it is a worthwhile expense... in balance... If you want to be really nit-picky you could argue, that utilising any of the material resources to make poi, is wasting them. someone who doesn't spin might just do that and argue, that we should redirect those resources into making kevlar suits for firemen in third world countries. That is perhaps quite improbable, but i suppose my point is, i would consider it to be about personal balance, perhaps if you choose to fire spin, you should also try and walk more...
And anyway there's not just the fuel to think about, what about the elctrical energy we use talking on HoP all day, the byproducts that might be produced from the making of man-made fibres for socks, medical resources that we might need if you get burnt...........
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
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Posted:
This is very true also, we could also say that the pastime as it is at the moment, has evolved out of this culture... oviously it still has roots in the maori poi spinning, but without the ability to easily purchase the fuel , would we use fire as much and as often, would as many people do it? Is it's current popularity of poi at all just down to current western-postmodern paradigm that goes about acquiring traditions from elsewhere and making them into a consumable and popular (if slightly specialized) product?
being a bit of a devils advocate on this one, but it's something to consider... the fact is, the only reason any of us do this is because we can afford the time and expense in the first place, i doubt i'd have any time for it if i was struggling to keep a roof over my head.
However to put it in a positive more eco-friendly light, please refer to maslow's hierarchy of needs, which suggests that the need for emotional satisfaction comes pretty high up after the most basic needs. In which case, as an artform, fire spinning does a pretty good job of fulfilling this, for us the spinners, and also for people watching....
i'm sure there's plenty of holes in this argument for folk to pick at, but it's by no means complete, so pick, pick away
Written by: Neon Shaolin
Another issue would be that firespinning requires fuel, and with the War in Iraq being almost certainly instigated by the West's need for oil are we adding to an already spiralling problem? One could easily argue that our entire way of life is built on a need for fuel and to be completely eco-friendly and we'd best live in a straw hut with a farm.
This is very true also, we could also say that the pastime as it is at the moment, has evolved out of this culture... oviously it still has roots in the maori poi spinning, but without the ability to easily purchase the fuel , would we use fire as much and as often, would as many people do it? Is it's current popularity of poi at all just down to current western-postmodern paradigm that goes about acquiring traditions from elsewhere and making them into a consumable and popular (if slightly specialized) product?
being a bit of a devils advocate on this one, but it's something to consider... the fact is, the only reason any of us do this is because we can afford the time and expense in the first place, i doubt i'd have any time for it if i was struggling to keep a roof over my head.
However to put it in a positive more eco-friendly light, please refer to maslow's hierarchy of needs, which suggests that the need for emotional satisfaction comes pretty high up after the most basic needs. In which case, as an artform, fire spinning does a pretty good job of fulfilling this, for us the spinners, and also for people watching....
i'm sure there's plenty of holes in this argument for folk to pick at, but it's by no means complete, so pick, pick away
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
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Posted:
I am surprised that Fire twirling hasn't been banned when simple things that only cause minute amounts of pollution have been taken away from the public (such as the not so CFC free asthma sprays which were so much better than the newer CFC free ones that don't freaking work!!!! Yes I am asthmatic and quite perturbed about this small change!)
I am surprised that Fire twirling hasn't been banned when simple things that only cause minute amounts of pollution have been taken away from the public (such as the not so CFC free asthma sprays which were so much better than the newer CFC free ones that don't freaking work!!!! Yes I am asthmatic and quite perturbed about this small change!)
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Posted:
hehe, and smoking in public places
main difference is though, fire twirling is still a minority and occasional happening, compared to the use of CFC's, which was widespread in all kinds of sprays... they probably just aren't aware of "those bloody hippies" being that much of a problem yet...
hey, i wonder what greenpeace's stand on it might be though? i quite fancy contacting them, but it might kick off a big anti-firespinner campaign or something and we will all get randomly attacked by protestors when we try to spin.....
hehe, and smoking in public places
main difference is though, fire twirling is still a minority and occasional happening, compared to the use of CFC's, which was widespread in all kinds of sprays... they probably just aren't aware of "those bloody hippies" being that much of a problem yet...
hey, i wonder what greenpeace's stand on it might be though? i quite fancy contacting them, but it might kick off a big anti-firespinner campaign or something and we will all get randomly attacked by protestors when we try to spin.....
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
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Posted:
I can understand taking CFC's out of aerosols like hairspray and deoderant but taking out of medication and making it less effective (most asthmatics think this way that I have spoken to) is surely not such a big deal.
We spray less of it than people spraying their hair or underarms.
I would like to hear what Greenpeace has to say in this respect to.
I think it was a very good question that was posed in this thread.
I can understand taking CFC's out of aerosols like hairspray and deoderant but taking out of medication and making it less effective (most asthmatics think this way that I have spoken to) is surely not such a big deal.
We spray less of it than people spraying their hair or underarms.
I would like to hear what Greenpeace has to say in this respect to.
I think it was a very good question that was posed in this thread.
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Posted:
hmmm... sounds like a fine ol' case of not thinking about every part of the problem... Presumably doctors are aware of this or not? Maybe a good thing to do would be to raise awareness with an asthma charity, they might already have some campaign or research happening...?
hmmm... sounds like a fine ol' case of not thinking about every part of the problem... Presumably doctors are aware of this or not? Maybe a good thing to do would be to raise awareness with an asthma charity, they might already have some campaign or research happening...?
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
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Posted:
Well a number of my doctors (including my asthma specialist) knew, don't know about others.
Getting back to the real topic, I tend not to use fire as much as I used to and I do try to use fuel that produces less smoke and fumes that maybe harmful. But I still know that what I do for fun is in no way good for the environment.
Spin in someones garden using kerosene and you will see what I mean, it kills plants, makes grass go brown, etc ,etc.
Well a number of my doctors (including my asthma specialist) knew, don't know about others.
Getting back to the real topic, I tend not to use fire as much as I used to and I do try to use fuel that produces less smoke and fumes that maybe harmful. But I still know that what I do for fun is in no way good for the environment.
Spin in someones garden using kerosene and you will see what I mean, it kills plants, makes grass go brown, etc ,etc.
newbie
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Location: York
8 posts
Location: York
Posted:
It's true though. Fire spinning is bad for the environment. But I do agree that we are in the minority in terms of contribution to air pollution. But still...every little helps. I mean, I only light up on special occasions, which don't come too often so...I guess if one took care to use paraffin in moderation we can't be doing too much damage.
But it's a shame. So many things we do are just ripping up the environment to pieces. The Earth has accepted it's fate that it's time to die is rappidly approaching by the hands of those that it has housed upon its own skin for centuries.
It's quite ironic really, I'm an Environmental Scientist (as if you couldn't tell) and what do I do in my spare time??!!! It's like Si - he's a fireman and he spins staff! All those times when he's told children not to play with fire...what does he do in HIS spare time!
eh eh eh?
It's true though. Fire spinning is bad for the environment. But I do agree that we are in the minority in terms of contribution to air pollution. But still...every little helps. I mean, I only light up on special occasions, which don't come too often so...I guess if one took care to use paraffin in moderation we can't be doing too much damage.
But it's a shame. So many things we do are just ripping up the environment to pieces. The Earth has accepted it's fate that it's time to die is rappidly approaching by the hands of those that it has housed upon its own skin for centuries.
It's quite ironic really, I'm an Environmental Scientist (as if you couldn't tell) and what do I do in my spare time??!!! It's like Si - he's a fireman and he spins staff! All those times when he's told children not to play with fire...what does he do in HIS spare time!
eh eh eh? "No rest. No mercy. No matter what." - Akroma, Angel of Wrath
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Muddy fingernails
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Posted:
Alternatives may be possible. Intend to investigate the possibilty of using biodiesel (diesel substitute from plant oils) when I have space, time and have got my hands on either some pure biodiesel or the makings, main issues being space and time. Maybe I can class it as CPD since it is subject related.
May turn out to have too low a flashpoint, but the limited data I could find suggested it may be okay. Flame colour may also be an issue, not burned any to see. Dunno if smelling of chip shop after spinning would be quite as evocative as paraffin, but there you go.
We may be generating only a small amount of pollution, but with the scale of problems today, a seemingly insignificant change can make a huge impact if many contribute.
Written by: Mr Majestik
yes, but you'll find fire twirling consumes much less fuel than cars. with fire there is no other fuel, but cars there are definatly other posibilites.
what we do is immesurably insignificant compared to other forms of fuel comsupton/pollution.
Alternatives may be possible. Intend to investigate the possibilty of using biodiesel (diesel substitute from plant oils) when I have space, time and have got my hands on either some pure biodiesel or the makings, main issues being space and time. Maybe I can class it as CPD since it is subject related.
May turn out to have too low a flashpoint, but the limited data I could find suggested it may be okay. Flame colour may also be an issue, not burned any to see. Dunno if smelling of chip shop after spinning would be quite as evocative as paraffin, but there you go.
We may be generating only a small amount of pollution, but with the scale of problems today, a seemingly insignificant change can make a huge impact if many contribute.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
KITTENS!!!!
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Posted:
i tried one fuel that was ecological lamp oil. Did indeed smell like chip fat, spattered everywhere like it too though, even after spinning off....
Written by: KatP
Flame colour may also be an issue, not burned any to see. Dunno if smelling of chip shop after spinning would be quite as evocative as paraffin, but there you go.
i tried one fuel that was ecological lamp oil. Did indeed smell like chip fat, spattered everywhere like it too though, even after spinning off....
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
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Pooh-Bah
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Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
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Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'd say "Compare the amount of pollution a couple of planes make in a year and then compare it to the pollution made by every fire spinner on the planet in that time."
I'm fairly certain that the two figures aren't really comparable.
I'd say "Compare the amount of pollution a couple of planes make in a year and then compare it to the pollution made by every fire spinner on the planet in that time."
I'm fairly certain that the two figures aren't really comparable.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:
they'd have to be pretty hardcore demonstrators to throw themselves at someone spinning fire....
if only we could convince those damn animal rights terrorists (when i say this i mean the sick people who try and bomb those who work with animals) to throw themselves on a nice big fire.....
i think the amount of pollution we cause is probably significantly less than that which occurs naturally through forest fires etc....
Written by: NOn
hey, i wonder what greenpeace's stand on it might be though? i quite fancy contacting them, but it might kick off a big anti-firespinner campaign or something and we will all get randomly attacked by protestors when we try to spin.....
they'd have to be pretty hardcore demonstrators to throw themselves at someone spinning fire....
if only we could convince those damn animal rights terrorists (when i say this i mean the sick people who try and bomb those who work with animals) to throw themselves on a nice big fire.....
i think the amount of pollution we cause is probably significantly less than that which occurs naturally through forest fires etc....
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had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
one of the cafes in Edinburgh had a poster up during the G8, saying something along the lines of:
"you're against globalisation?
you want to protest?
you came here hundreds of miles on a plane?"
That was quite funny
one of the cafes in Edinburgh had a poster up during the G8, saying something along the lines of:
"you're against globalisation?
you want to protest?
you came here hundreds of miles on a plane?"
That was quite funny
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Owner of Dragosani's left half
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Posted:
clever
Written by: Birgit
one of the cafes in Edinburgh had a poster up during the G8, saying something along the lines of:
"you're against globalisation?
you want to protest?
you came here hundreds of miles on a plane?"
That was quite funny
clever
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
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Posted:
strangely enough though, it seems to be fairly common. for some reason the environmental factors of globalisation tend to pushed aside somewhat in favour of the mere principle of having things dictated by a multinational corporation.
i mean, does it make ecological sense to import fair trade honey from mexico, rather than to have honey made in the UK? Or is it better to buy the fair trade honey, because the farmers in mexico are considered less well off? is it ecological to be honey at all, since the process is said to be cruel to bees?
one of many examples of an eco-ethical dilemma i guess
strangely enough though, it seems to be fairly common. for some reason the environmental factors of globalisation tend to pushed aside somewhat in favour of the mere principle of having things dictated by a multinational corporation.
i mean, does it make ecological sense to import fair trade honey from mexico, rather than to have honey made in the UK? Or is it better to buy the fair trade honey, because the farmers in mexico are considered less well off? is it ecological to be honey at all, since the process is said to be cruel to bees?
one of many examples of an eco-ethical dilemma i guess
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
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Posted:
I brought that up at work recently when the cafeteria started selling fair trade apple juice... but noone else seemed to think it was weird at all
I brought that up at work recently when the cafeteria started selling fair trade apple juice... but noone else seemed to think it was weird at all
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Posted:
Something else to think about, is contamination into the local environment, from spillages etc...
Something else to think about, is contamination into the local environment, from spillages etc...
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:
contamination by fire spinning?
id say its pretty bad - i mean parafin is not a substance that occurs naturally on or near the surface id say that contamination is probably more damaging than our (more than likely microscopic) contribution to co2 levels
contamination by fire spinning?
id say its pretty bad - i mean parafin is not a substance that occurs naturally on or near the surface id say that contamination is probably more damaging than our (more than likely microscopic) contribution to co2 levels
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Posted:
well if they are going to stop fire spinning then what about camp fires, bon fires and BBQ's how much CO2 and CO do they release in a year?? probly not as much other chemicals but they would still release some.
well if they are going to stop fire spinning then what about camp fires, bon fires and BBQ's how much CO2 and CO do they release in a year?? probly not as much other chemicals but they would still release some.
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the henna lady
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Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
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Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
So.....6 or 7 years ago, back when HoP was *really* small, about 15 of us converged on a farm in the mountains in Vermont for a (at that time) large gathering of NE US spinners.
It was a gathering full of neo-hippies who brought bio-degradable soaps. Who cursed the use of glowsticks. Who grew much of their food on the organic farm because it was healthier and who thought that animals for food was cruel (but understood there were many who chose to partake of it).
At that time a couple of us sat and wondered at the eco-friendliness of spinning (ie: not a new topic, has been done on here several times before).
As one of the days progressed the host revved up his chain saw kicking out noise at deafening decibels, kicked out more smoke than my car and took down a lovely small tree for the bonfire that night for everyone to spin around.
The fuel bucket was pulled out and the bon fire stoked up.
People fuelled up, spun off, danced in all their smoke filled, fuel flinging (because no matter how well you spin/squeeze off, it still happens) glory as one person backed up their SUV and blared music enough to rock the entire mountain.
In the morning there was a large burnt area from the fire in the otherwise lovely clearing. There was a stump of a pretty tree left. There were lines of dead grass strewn around the field from where the fuel landed (and I have noticed this alot with spinning, btw). People hacked, coughed and blew black from their noses from spinning the night before. I am fairly certain that there were several animals whose homes and sleep were completely disrupted by the noise...all day and all night. The grass was trampled to muddy, horrible bits to the point where the property owners had to plant grass seed to get it to grow back.
At least we did alot better at picking up our cups and such than I have seen at other such gatherings. The regular trash left behind at those is *appalling*, even when people claim to clean things up.
There is alot more than air pollution when it comes to the spinning subculture.
Spinners tend to like noise to spin to. Noise pollution is a large thing these days.
We tend to gather in large amounts now, which is always a semi-destructive force.
The ground still feels the effect of the fuel, even in a small amount.
And when we gather to spin, we do other things which can also have an effect (bonfires, eating, drinking and leaving stuff behind, trampling areas, etc.)
And the fact that in 6 years HoP has grown by the tens of thousands proves it is not a "small" thing at all. Especially not for something as optional and unnecessary as it is.
Comparing spinning to transportation is apples to apes...not even in the same category.
And biodiesel is still a pollutant. Tobacco is a pollutant, and it's natural. If I dump olive oil into a fish tank, it will still kill the fish. When my mother set her deep fryer of natural oil on fire, pillars of black smoke filled the room and damaged the kitchen. Natural doesn't mean that it is alright or safe. Please don't comfort yourself with false hopes. (Besides, biodiesal sucks for spinning. It is entirely too oily on the wicks and doesn't soak in properly.)
Fire spinning absolutely sucks for the environment on many, many levels. And as the numbers of spinners grows...well...it'll be interesting.
But then, I am not an eco-warrior. I refrain from comment on most "environmental" issues actually. And I have noticed that most eco-warriors are only such when it suits their needs. I don't see too many of them forgoing toilet paper, or rolling papers, to save a tree.
So.....6 or 7 years ago, back when HoP was *really* small, about 15 of us converged on a farm in the mountains in Vermont for a (at that time) large gathering of NE US spinners.
It was a gathering full of neo-hippies who brought bio-degradable soaps. Who cursed the use of glowsticks. Who grew much of their food on the organic farm because it was healthier and who thought that animals for food was cruel (but understood there were many who chose to partake of it).
At that time a couple of us sat and wondered at the eco-friendliness of spinning (ie: not a new topic, has been done on here several times before).
As one of the days progressed the host revved up his chain saw kicking out noise at deafening decibels, kicked out more smoke than my car and took down a lovely small tree for the bonfire that night for everyone to spin around.
The fuel bucket was pulled out and the bon fire stoked up.
People fuelled up, spun off, danced in all their smoke filled, fuel flinging (because no matter how well you spin/squeeze off, it still happens) glory as one person backed up their SUV and blared music enough to rock the entire mountain.
In the morning there was a large burnt area from the fire in the otherwise lovely clearing. There was a stump of a pretty tree left. There were lines of dead grass strewn around the field from where the fuel landed (and I have noticed this alot with spinning, btw). People hacked, coughed and blew black from their noses from spinning the night before. I am fairly certain that there were several animals whose homes and sleep were completely disrupted by the noise...all day and all night. The grass was trampled to muddy, horrible bits to the point where the property owners had to plant grass seed to get it to grow back.
At least we did alot better at picking up our cups and such than I have seen at other such gatherings. The regular trash left behind at those is *appalling*, even when people claim to clean things up.
There is alot more than air pollution when it comes to the spinning subculture.
Spinners tend to like noise to spin to. Noise pollution is a large thing these days.
We tend to gather in large amounts now, which is always a semi-destructive force.
The ground still feels the effect of the fuel, even in a small amount.
And when we gather to spin, we do other things which can also have an effect (bonfires, eating, drinking and leaving stuff behind, trampling areas, etc.)
And the fact that in 6 years HoP has grown by the tens of thousands proves it is not a "small" thing at all. Especially not for something as optional and unnecessary as it is.
Comparing spinning to transportation is apples to apes...not even in the same category.
And biodiesel is still a pollutant. Tobacco is a pollutant, and it's natural. If I dump olive oil into a fish tank, it will still kill the fish. When my mother set her deep fryer of natural oil on fire, pillars of black smoke filled the room and damaged the kitchen. Natural doesn't mean that it is alright or safe. Please don't comfort yourself with false hopes. (Besides, biodiesal sucks for spinning. It is entirely too oily on the wicks and doesn't soak in properly.)
Fire spinning absolutely sucks for the environment on many, many levels. And as the numbers of spinners grows...well...it'll be interesting.
But then, I am not an eco-warrior. I refrain from comment on most "environmental" issues actually. And I have noticed that most eco-warriors are only such when it suits their needs. I don't see too many of them forgoing toilet paper, or rolling papers, to save a tree.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
this is kindof related to a rant i posted a while back but cant be bothered finding. To be honest i raised this a couple of time with some more hippi-ish/eco spinners than myself, but found they simply got quite hostile.
i suppose no-one like to be told they're a hypocrit. its all about thinking about the large scale impact of your actions.
putting my use in perspective - i use approximately 50 litres of petrol every two weeks, verses about 1.5 litres of kero every 2 weeks. if i was try to be eco-conscious id ditch the car first.
theres a balance everyone has to find between being environmentally responsible and still enjoying life. i can at least say i know where i stand in terms of my fossil fuel use. perhaps im a selfish [censored] putting my own fun first - but oh well - i can live with that.
Im not like a guy who boast buying recycled envelopes and paper and the newsagent despite driving to get there. nor am i like one hippy activist type i met whose life dream was to shut down multiple key mining operations in australia, despite wear numberous metal rings and piercing.
im not perfect - but at least im aware.
this is kindof related to a rant i posted a while back but cant be bothered finding. To be honest i raised this a couple of time with some more hippi-ish/eco spinners than myself, but found they simply got quite hostile.
i suppose no-one like to be told they're a hypocrit. its all about thinking about the large scale impact of your actions.
putting my use in perspective - i use approximately 50 litres of petrol every two weeks, verses about 1.5 litres of kero every 2 weeks. if i was try to be eco-conscious id ditch the car first.
theres a balance everyone has to find between being environmentally responsible and still enjoying life. i can at least say i know where i stand in terms of my fossil fuel use. perhaps im a selfish [censored] putting my own fun first - but oh well - i can live with that.
Im not like a guy who boast buying recycled envelopes and paper and the newsagent despite driving to get there. nor am i like one hippy activist type i met whose life dream was to shut down multiple key mining operations in australia, despite wear numberous metal rings and piercing.
im not perfect - but at least im aware.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Good points pele!
May I add the (to me) annoying habit of bringing tons of beer cans to spinning and not even bothering to put them in recycling bins (in Edinburgh about a 5 minute walk from the main spinning site, so it's not a big deal really)?
*grumbles*
Good points pele!
May I add the (to me) annoying habit of bringing tons of beer cans to spinning and not even bothering to put them in recycling bins (in Edinburgh about a 5 minute walk from the main spinning site, so it's not a big deal really)?
*grumbles*
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
Posted:
In this world that we've cultured, it's almost impossible for most of us to be "eco friendly". But that doesn't mean that we're hypocrites for succeeding in some areas and not in others. It's hard and takes alot of time and money to change your whole way of being.
I'd say that I'm trying, not a hypocrite.
In this world that we've cultured, it's almost impossible for most of us to be "eco friendly". But that doesn't mean that we're hypocrites for succeeding in some areas and not in others. It's hard and takes alot of time and money to change your whole way of being.
I'd say that I'm trying, not a hypocrite.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
Hold on a minute? They dont work for you? Ive been using CFC free inhalors for a while and they still work for me, allthough they seem to run out quicker...but maybie thats just me thinking that
Written by: Medusa
I am surprised that Fire twirling hasn't been banned when simple things that only cause minute amounts of pollution have been taken away from the public (such as the not so CFC free asthma sprays which were so much better than the newer CFC free ones that don't freaking work!!!! Yes I am asthmatic and quite perturbed about this small change!)
Hold on a minute? They dont work for you? Ive been using CFC free inhalors for a while and they still work for me, allthough they seem to run out quicker...but maybie thats just me thinking that
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Most of this is indicative of bad planning and organization rather than any inherent problem with fire spinning.
1. There is no justification for cutting down a random saproling for wood. Get it from somewhere that sells firewood, or even better, burn some wooden junk that you have in your back garden or garage that would otherwise go to a landfill site.
2. Music is quite easily provided by drums played by other spinners. If that doesn't satisfy you, use a CD/Tape player/iPod/MP3 player. Failing everything else, just spin to the sound of the flames. There isn't an excuse to have music that loud, I for one would hate it.
3. It sounds like it was held in a badly considered site. Why wasn't there an area already prepared for the bonfire, with bricks laid out, or the turf cut up (to be replaced) or something similar? If the grass was trampled that badly then maybe the people should have been more spaced out?
4. I've never had any respiratory problems due to spinning the night before. I don't know anyone who has. Certainly not had to blow black bits from my nose.
5. And if you follow the maxim of "Take only pictures, leave only footprints" then rubbish should not be a factor. All you should leave is maybe some spilt paraffin, which (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't damaging beyond a strictly local level, and maybe some flat grass where you pitched your tent.
So why complain about the apples when there's an entire zoo of apes busy ruining your house?
Written by: Pele
As one of the days progressed the host revved up his chain saw kicking out noise at deafening decibels, kicked out more smoke than my car and took down a lovely small tree for the bonfire that night for everyone to spin around.
The fuel bucket was pulled out and the bon fire stoked up.
People fuelled up, spun off, danced in all their smoke filled, fuel flinging (because no matter how well you spin/squeeze off, it still happens) glory as one person backed up their SUV and blared music enough to rock the entire mountain.
In the morning there was a large burnt area from the fire in the otherwise lovely clearing. There was a stump of a pretty tree left. There were lines of dead grass strewn around the field from where the fuel landed (and I have noticed this alot with spinning, btw). People hacked, coughed and blew black from their noses from spinning the night before. I am fairly certain that there were several animals whose homes and sleep were completely disrupted by the noise...all day and all night. The grass was trampled to muddy, horrible bits to the point where the property owners had to plant grass seed to get it to grow back.
Most of this is indicative of bad planning and organization rather than any inherent problem with fire spinning.
1. There is no justification for cutting down a random saproling for wood. Get it from somewhere that sells firewood, or even better, burn some wooden junk that you have in your back garden or garage that would otherwise go to a landfill site.
2. Music is quite easily provided by drums played by other spinners. If that doesn't satisfy you, use a CD/Tape player/iPod/MP3 player. Failing everything else, just spin to the sound of the flames. There isn't an excuse to have music that loud, I for one would hate it.
3. It sounds like it was held in a badly considered site. Why wasn't there an area already prepared for the bonfire, with bricks laid out, or the turf cut up (to be replaced) or something similar? If the grass was trampled that badly then maybe the people should have been more spaced out?
4. I've never had any respiratory problems due to spinning the night before. I don't know anyone who has. Certainly not had to blow black bits from my nose.
5. And if you follow the maxim of "Take only pictures, leave only footprints" then rubbish should not be a factor. All you should leave is maybe some spilt paraffin, which (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't damaging beyond a strictly local level, and maybe some flat grass where you pitched your tent.
Written by: Pele
Comparing spinning to transportation is apples to apes...not even in the same category.
So why complain about the apples when there's an entire zoo of apes busy ruining your house?
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
SILVER Member
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
Posted:
here here!! 
here here!!
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
1. Wood is wood dear. Still comes from a tree that was chopped down, especially if you are burning wood junk.
2. Noise is noise. Do you know how many outdoor raves there are where the dj's kick up the tunes? Drummers can be just as headache causing. It's all still very loud and disruptive noise.
3. While our site was a private farm have you seen the amounts of events advertised on this site that are held in open fields? I am pretty sure they don't cut up turf neatly, lay bricks and then replace it all.
4. You are the first spinner I have talked to who doesn't feel an after effect from a full night of spinning. In fact, it is something very often discussed on here. I did not say respiratory problems at all. However, spinning in all that smoke has side effects for long periods of time. Always has. Always will.
5. Ummm...I said that our site was clean. There is no way that you can have a gathering of 50 people and leave a place uneffected. It is simply not possible...even if the place is covered in cement.
Idealism is a grand goal, but one rarely reached.
Our event was actually extremely well planned and we had a fabulous time.
I have never once suffered from the complete misgiving that fire spinning is eco-friendly. It's not. It doesn't matter to what degree it is compared to something completely different. It is going to single handedly wipe out the earth? Nope. Does is contribute? Absolutely. The truth is that is simply is not, whether or not people want to admit it, which, like I said is the case with many as people tend to find justification for things they want to do no matter what the real picture looks like.
Medusa, my gran says the free inhalers don't work as well either.
Written by: Sethis
1. There is no justification for cutting down a random saproling for wood. Get it from somewhere that sells firewood, or even better, burn some wooden junk that you have in your back garden or garage that would otherwise go to a landfill site.
2. Music is quite easily provided by drums played by other spinners. If that doesn't satisfy you, use a CD/Tape player/iPod/MP3 player. Failing everything else, just spin to the sound of the flames. There isn't an excuse to have music that loud, I for one would hate it.
3. It sounds like it was held in a badly considered site. Why wasn't there an area already prepared for the bonfire, with bricks laid out, or the turf cut up (to be replaced) or something similar? If the grass was trampled that badly then maybe the people should have been more spaced out?
4. I've never had any respiratory problems due to spinning the night before. I don't know anyone who has. Certainly not had to blow black bits from my nose.
5. And if you follow the maxim of "Take only pictures, leave only footprints" then rubbish should not be a factor. All you should leave is maybe some spilt paraffin, which (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't damaging beyond a strictly local level, and maybe some flat grass where you pitched your tent.
1. Wood is wood dear. Still comes from a tree that was chopped down, especially if you are burning wood junk.
2. Noise is noise. Do you know how many outdoor raves there are where the dj's kick up the tunes? Drummers can be just as headache causing. It's all still very loud and disruptive noise.
3. While our site was a private farm have you seen the amounts of events advertised on this site that are held in open fields? I am pretty sure they don't cut up turf neatly, lay bricks and then replace it all.
4. You are the first spinner I have talked to who doesn't feel an after effect from a full night of spinning. In fact, it is something very often discussed on here. I did not say respiratory problems at all. However, spinning in all that smoke has side effects for long periods of time. Always has. Always will.
5. Ummm...I said that our site was clean. There is no way that you can have a gathering of 50 people and leave a place uneffected. It is simply not possible...even if the place is covered in cement.
Idealism is a grand goal, but one rarely reached.
Our event was actually extremely well planned and we had a fabulous time.
I have never once suffered from the complete misgiving that fire spinning is eco-friendly. It's not. It doesn't matter to what degree it is compared to something completely different. It is going to single handedly wipe out the earth? Nope. Does is contribute? Absolutely. The truth is that is simply is not, whether or not people want to admit it, which, like I said is the case with many as people tend to find justification for things they want to do no matter what the real picture looks like.
Medusa, my gran says the free inhalers don't work as well either.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Yes, but (
):
1. Which is better, cutting down a young tree to fuel the fire, or using wood that is already cut (either as junk or to be sold)? Bearing in mind that if the wood was sold then the guy would just sell it to someone else.
2. I don't care about raves. I've never been to one and I don't plan to. I have, however, been to a few meet ups and the loudest I've ever heard was Falmouth, which totalled about 4 drums during the night.
3. Falmouth is near a beach, which is an almost ideal place to spin. The other meets/parties I've been to that are local have all had a decent place to have a fire, if they've had one at all. I've never been anywhere that had a bonfire on a random patch of grass.
4. Well, coughing/hawking up black bits from inside your mouth/nose sounds like a respiratory problem to me, I wasn't really talking about anything specific. The only side effect I've noticed from spinning is a headache if I do it continuously for a long time. I never (and haven't seen anyone) have breathing difficulties/coughing etc because I don't stand in front of the bonfire.
5. The last point was more of a general rule than a criticism of your specific gathering, but I agree that you can't leave the place unaffected. What you can do, however is host it on a site where there won't be too much damage e.g. a campsite, beach, or other place that isn't just "Oh, this looks pretty, lets pull up the SUVs, ramp up the tunes, light a huge bonfire and throw kerosene around" which is basically how you described the event you went to.
Fire spinning will never be Eco-Friendly, but you can do a hell of a lot to minimise possible effects, which (from the sounds of it) the event you went to wasn't doing.
And who is to say what the real picture is? Justification is what you make of it.
EDITED_BY: Sethis (1146175983)
Yes, but (
):1. Which is better, cutting down a young tree to fuel the fire, or using wood that is already cut (either as junk or to be sold)? Bearing in mind that if the wood was sold then the guy would just sell it to someone else.
2. I don't care about raves. I've never been to one and I don't plan to. I have, however, been to a few meet ups and the loudest I've ever heard was Falmouth, which totalled about 4 drums during the night.
3. Falmouth is near a beach, which is an almost ideal place to spin. The other meets/parties I've been to that are local have all had a decent place to have a fire, if they've had one at all. I've never been anywhere that had a bonfire on a random patch of grass.
4. Well, coughing/hawking up black bits from inside your mouth/nose sounds like a respiratory problem to me, I wasn't really talking about anything specific. The only side effect I've noticed from spinning is a headache if I do it continuously for a long time. I never (and haven't seen anyone) have breathing difficulties/coughing etc because I don't stand in front of the bonfire.
5. The last point was more of a general rule than a criticism of your specific gathering, but I agree that you can't leave the place unaffected. What you can do, however is host it on a site where there won't be too much damage e.g. a campsite, beach, or other place that isn't just "Oh, this looks pretty, lets pull up the SUVs, ramp up the tunes, light a huge bonfire and throw kerosene around" which is basically how you described the event you went to.
Fire spinning will never be Eco-Friendly, but you can do a hell of a lot to minimise possible effects, which (from the sounds of it) the event you went to wasn't doing.
Written by: Pele
people tend to find justification for things they want to do no matter what the real picture looks like.
And who is to say what the real picture is? Justification is what you make of it.
EDITED_BY: Sethis (1146175983)
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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