Forums > Social Chat > alternatives to war?? utopian ideas?
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142 posts
Location: bristol
142 posts
Location: bristol
Posted:
I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this thread but as a kind of "moving on" from the say no to war thread. There seems to be a general concencous that we'ed rather war didn't exist but the problem as I see it is that its very hard for us (as the general populace of the western world) to avoid contributing to it in one way or another in this society. IE through our taxes, consumerism, infact much of our life style is life destructive in one way or another. I guess many of us have thought about how things could be different but how can change come about and maybee whats your utopian ideal for human life on earth??
I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this thread but as a kind of "moving on" from the say no to war thread. There seems to be a general concencous that we'ed rather war didn't exist but the problem as I see it is that its very hard for us (as the general populace of the western world) to avoid contributing to it in one way or another in this society. IE through our taxes, consumerism, infact much of our life style is life destructive in one way or another. I guess many of us have thought about how things could be different but how can change come about and maybee whats your utopian ideal for human life on earth??
member
142 posts
Location: bristol
142 posts
Location: bristol
Posted:
So trade seems to be a running concern amongst us?
Money vs Bartering etc. Money cancause alot of evil, I saw a news report from Lithuania last night that really hurt me. The suicide rate is soaring there (over 10 times the rate in the US or UK) the cause of this was atributed largely to the country now joining the EU, becoming capitalist and the divide this caused some were now rich overs were poor. I wonder how money does this to people, it allways amused me how the boss of a factory or whatever earns so much more than his workers and so he feels strong and powerfull and yet he still has to spend everyday in a factory the same as the other workers still involved in (9 times out of 10) a completely worthless ocupation. How many jobs have you had which didn't actually need to be done? I've had many surely they're just games to pass the time then but money dictates that we must play the games we are alloted by the powers that be. An idea about Mikes post concerning the farrier, if shoeing horses wasn't a popular favour around town he would probably find himself playing other games from time to time and getting better at those maybee one of these would persuade you to lance his boil or maybe he'ed manage to lance it himself?
So trade seems to be a running concern amongst us?
Money vs Bartering etc. Money cancause alot of evil, I saw a news report from Lithuania last night that really hurt me. The suicide rate is soaring there (over 10 times the rate in the US or UK) the cause of this was atributed largely to the country now joining the EU, becoming capitalist and the divide this caused some were now rich overs were poor. I wonder how money does this to people, it allways amused me how the boss of a factory or whatever earns so much more than his workers and so he feels strong and powerfull and yet he still has to spend everyday in a factory the same as the other workers still involved in (9 times out of 10) a completely worthless ocupation. How many jobs have you had which didn't actually need to be done? I've had many surely they're just games to pass the time then but money dictates that we must play the games we are alloted by the powers that be. An idea about Mikes post concerning the farrier, if shoeing horses wasn't a popular favour around town he would probably find himself playing other games from time to time and getting better at those maybee one of these would persuade you to lance his boil or maybe he'ed manage to lance it himself?
member
6 posts
Location: UK
6 posts
Location: UK
Posted:
in the field full of mines,war is won and lives are lost the people cry... the war was won but life was lost whilst little gifts lay underground just waitin to be found. satan looks up in desperation whilst god looks down in dissapointment in the field full of mines.
in the field full of mines,war is won and lives are lost the people cry... the war was won but life was lost whilst little gifts lay underground just waitin to be found. satan looks up in desperation whilst god looks down in dissapointment in the field full of mines.
member
106 posts
Location: BC, Canada
106 posts
Location: BC, Canada
Posted:
There is a big protest that is going to happen Jan. 18 world-wide opposing the war. I had to really search to find where it is in my area but I found a site for the protest in Washington.
https://www.internationalanswer.org/index.html
And if anyone from Vancouver is intested...
Jan. 18, 2003 - Rally and March: No War on Iraq SATURDAY JANUARY 18, 1PM, LIBRARY SQUARE, 530 W. GEORGIA STREET, VANCOUVER: International Day of Action, No War on Iraq.
1 pm March for Peace; gathering a Library square.
2 pm Rally at Art Gallery; with speakers on - Why oppose the war on Iraq -The Palestinian situation -Keep Canada out of the war
3 pm Canadian Peace Team. Immediately following the rally, four Vancouver women who have recently returned from from Iraq will give a report of their trip.( location to be announced). Peace and Justice in the Middle East. Organized By the Nov 17th Peace Coalition
There is a big protest that is going to happen Jan. 18 world-wide opposing the war. I had to really search to find where it is in my area but I found a site for the protest in Washington.
https://www.internationalanswer.org/index.html
And if anyone from Vancouver is intested...
Jan. 18, 2003 - Rally and March: No War on Iraq SATURDAY JANUARY 18, 1PM, LIBRARY SQUARE, 530 W. GEORGIA STREET, VANCOUVER: International Day of Action, No War on Iraq.
1 pm March for Peace; gathering a Library square.
2 pm Rally at Art Gallery; with speakers on - Why oppose the war on Iraq -The Palestinian situation -Keep Canada out of the war
3 pm Canadian Peace Team. Immediately following the rally, four Vancouver women who have recently returned from from Iraq will give a report of their trip.( location to be announced). Peace and Justice in the Middle East. Organized By the Nov 17th Peace Coalition
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Well, the basic problem at this point is insurmountable without addressing the root cause of the problem.
The ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM IS: There are six billion people on the planet. There just aren't enough resources to go around such that everyone can live comfortably.
Until this problem can be solved (which will require a population reduction), no utopian idea will be able to work, no matter how well-reasoned.
Well, the basic problem at this point is insurmountable without addressing the root cause of the problem.
The ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM IS: There are six billion people on the planet. There just aren't enough resources to go around such that everyone can live comfortably.
Until this problem can be solved (which will require a population reduction), no utopian idea will be able to work, no matter how well-reasoned.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
enthusiast
237 posts
237 posts
Posted:
As usual a great conversation with good points.
For me Utopia will always be spending time with my kids and having friends around to my place. It's the ONLY place I can act how I want without the interruptions and opinion of others. As far as I can see a utopian world is impossible because of the people Ray always points out HOWEVER, I am nothing like this and don't give a tin of shit what peoples beliefs, culture or desires are as long as they don't force it on me (open debate and conversation about topics in a civilised manner are different). If they are a good person, they're a good person.
The worlds gone wrong and will continue to do so - even with the wonderful, commendable actions of people like Dom and others who actively protest.
So with that in mind I reckon everyone should aim to make their own little (or big) utopia in the sanctuary of their own lives and somewhere things will stay good for people at least on a personal level.
[ 18. January 2003, 12:05: Message edited by: BEZERKER ]
As usual a great conversation with good points.
For me Utopia will always be spending time with my kids and having friends around to my place. It's the ONLY place I can act how I want without the interruptions and opinion of others. As far as I can see a utopian world is impossible because of the people Ray always points out HOWEVER, I am nothing like this and don't give a tin of shit what peoples beliefs, culture or desires are as long as they don't force it on me (open debate and conversation about topics in a civilised manner are different). If they are a good person, they're a good person.
The worlds gone wrong and will continue to do so - even with the wonderful, commendable actions of people like Dom and others who actively protest.
So with that in mind I reckon everyone should aim to make their own little (or big) utopia in the sanctuary of their own lives and somewhere things will stay good for people at least on a personal level.
[ 18. January 2003, 12:05: Message edited by: BEZERKER ]
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
We ain’t run out of resources yet. Just look at all the subsidised, over production of agricultural products (ie food) in the States or Europe.
The ROOT PROBLEM IS GREED
quote:Well that’s a crock. There sure are adequate resources at present, it’s just that they are not very evenly distributed. I think the US chews through something like 70% of the WORLDS fuel, energy and stuff, for example. In some developing countries, greedy leaders hog all the wealth and let their people starve, or enslave their people in petty, self-serving, wars.
The ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM IS: There are six billion people on the planet. There just aren't enough resources to go around such that everyone can live comfortably.
We ain’t run out of resources yet. Just look at all the subsidised, over production of agricultural products (ie food) in the States or Europe.
The ROOT PROBLEM IS GREED
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
HCH No 2
216 posts
Location: Chester, Cheshire.
216 posts
Location: Chester, Cheshire.
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link
I'm on the look out for you Hippy fire breathin' anarchists.... I love oil, and god bless 'Dubya' for makin sure we got e'nuff... I mean taking care of evil dictators.. like that Mugabe bloke (?) E-Ba-Gum = Mug-Ab-E...
Non-Https Image Link
I'm on the look out for you Hippy fire breathin' anarchists.... I love oil, and god bless 'Dubya' for makin sure we got e'nuff... I mean taking care of evil dictators.. like that Mugabe bloke (?) E-Ba-Gum = Mug-Ab-E...
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