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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Wondering if when someone dies, and they have expressed a last wish( clearly, like in a letter) , if it should always be respected- and thus acted on.

What, for example, if their last wish was something not good? Maybe even mean, ignorant, hurtful-- or even just inconsiderate. Should you still be obliged to follow it? What if, while they were alive, they made made decisions that were Not something you could respect... why then, would you suddenly feel obilgated to respect their wish after they die?

Just wanting some perspective.

Does one have to respect anothers last wishes?Is it horrible to consider taking action counter to someones last wish, but in line with your own beleifs? Is there a right choice here? What do you think?


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:hug

It's difficult... I suppose their last wishes should be followed... as they wanted... in theory.

But now they are gone, surely it's those left behind who will keep that person alive through memory... ?

Will carrying out the actions of that letter lead the remaining family/friends to feel uncomfortable? Will that feeling damage the memory they have of that person?

Hmmm.

Can the family follow the last wishes as far as they can, while also honouring what they hold dear?

Good luck, and follow your heart beautiful lady... because that will be the right choice.

hug2


Getting to the other side smile

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:I personaly wouldn't if it was hurtful, ignorant or inconsistant.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:It certainly will create a fuss if I do not respect this letter of intent. Some of the people involved will be horrified that once again, I am rocking the boat... I am not totally sure if I care. It may be more important to get what justice is available legally, than to respect the wish of someone who made many, many choices I do not respect, including aspects of this one...



On the other hand, I am not sure if any of it is worth the bother.Maybe I am the only one that cares, and should just let it all go.At least it would be done.



But I am not sure that this letter is actually representative of his intentions, since many things changed suddenly between its writing and his death- maybe it is not really his last wish anyways?



Yes , it is hurtful, but not inconsistant necessarily. And it may not have been intended as hurtful. How do I know? It is certainly not just or fair ( at least as I see it, and as the law sees it)



People are very irrational around the subject, so open discussion with those concerned is pretty much impossible.

I would feel better if we could just talk about it, but sadly, that is not going to happen.


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Just do what you think is right, it's all we can ever do.

Goodluck.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Ry
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

Ry

Gromit's Humble Squire
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 4496
Posted:'Always' is a very big word, Andrea. I suppose the fact that someone's dead and is probably never going to ask for anything again does make a person feel like there is some extra obligation to carry out his/her last wishes, but it's very subjective and I don't think you can come up with a yes or no answer.

Just as when someone is alive and asks you to do something, you should consider what's being asked and whether it is in your capacity to carry it out not causing yourself additional grief and stress.


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Tricky one, Andrea... Sorry that you have lost someone and that you are left with controversy hug

It is very vaguely formulated, therefore only generalised statements can come as answers.

Sometimes we have to disobey others and just do what we ourselves feel is right, even if it counters someones last wish. The very last person you are ultimately responsible for is yourself...

Sorry to be of no great help...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:I have been on the receiving end of someone's last wish recently. It was a very hurful (to my family) last wish.

In the end we decided to go with the person's last wishes.

I don't think you ca really do anything else. frown hug


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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Guess it is hard to discuss without more info.

Briefly, the person in question , my father, cut his three blood children, out of his " will". But the letter in which he states this intention is not legal as a will, unwitnessed. Canadian law therefore says that the estate, whatever that may be, gets shared between his spouse, my step mom, and us, his children by birth. The letter leaves everything to my step mother and thus, her direct family, my step siblings. (She says she will include us in her will though...) Nothing to us children, or our mother.

At any rate, my stepmother has sent me documents requesting that I respect this letter, my dads last wishes, and sign a formal statement withdrawing from any legal rights to his estate.

I was just going to do it, and forget about it, but then all these things started surfacing, like how he owed my mother eight years of unpaid child support for us kids, how he sold the families property without giving us our shares, blah blah blah. A number of wrongs that could be righted, at least a little, at this point. Damn complex to write, so I will skip that bit. I would like to see my mother get the money she is owed, through us children if need be. Money can not heal, but it can provide security. We never had any in our lives with him, money or security, and a little now would be a good thing maybe?

I am also uncertain that in the end, my dad would have actually wanted things the way this letter states, as all of us were reconciled at the time of his death.That was really quite miraculous. So I am not sure that was what he would really have wanted anyways, since most of the hurts had been healed just before he died...

I know it sounds like money bitching, and sure, that is some of it. But really, for me it is about fairness, much more about balancing things at the end, about family, about choices, what to stand up for, what to let go...

If I dont sign this, by default and the law, everything is shared equally. That is not what he wanted,apparently, but it may be what I want?

It is not even that I have to do anything, I just have to *not* do something, not sign this paper in front of me...and face the consequences.

Hmmn.


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Sorry, realizing this is rather heavy for HOP. Can't even begin to tell you how heavy some of the [censored] I am dealing with is. Thanks for the hugs ya all. I really do value all of the opinions. I have to decide and act by Sunday, can't seem to get my head clear never mind my heart...

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hopefully this will bring you that bit closer to healing though...

(and you have no need to apologise smile )

How many problems will it cause if you try to fight against this? And do you want to go through all that?

Have you been able to speak to your stepmum about this?

Good luck lady xx


Getting to the other side smile

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:the irony is, I dont have to fight. I just have to ignore his letter, and not sign the document waiving my rights-- the law is clear, and will take care of the rest.

The cost is the morality/ethics around dis-respecting his last wish, if this is in fact his last wish, and the disapproval of the remaining step-family in me doing that.My two blood brothers have signed, because they want everything over with now, an end to that part of our lives.They dont care about the money or the morality, just want it over. I understand that, and it is tempting.

My step mom told me to get legal advice, and make my own decision. She would not go against what she sees as his last wish, but can understand if I would want to do so. I will talk to her more once I have a sense of my decision. I am having trouble visualizing her as receptive to the suggestion of paying my mother back her child support out of my fathers estate...

How it would jeapordize all the fragile relationships between us, I do not know. How they are already harmed by this letter, we will soon find out...


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Ry
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

Ry

Gromit's Humble Squire
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 4496
Posted:Hmm it's a toughie. Even if you were to talk to your stepmum, like Clare mentions- I'm not too sure what you'd say without it sounding like 'I want in'.



On the other hand, you could try to bring up the fact that your loyalty is torn between your mum and your dad. You could justify yourself to her saying that you can't bring yourself to sign it off without feeling as if you're doing something against your own mother, which would make some kind of sense.. (and would most definitely frustrate your step mum..)



Another way out could be to redo the who gets what. You could meet with your step mum, speak to her about how you don't want to do any party wrong- and somehow maybe settle on instead of a spouse, 3 blood children ratio (4 parts), do it in a spouse/ex-spouse division.. (2 parts). You and your siblings would still get nothing (as per your dad's wishes), your step mum wouldn't see you as a money grubber, your stepmum would get more than she would if you did nothing, you and your siblings may get some of it in your mum's will eventually, and your mum gets some of it which she deserves.



Depending on how this goes down, your step mum may or may not cut you out of her will, your siblings and you might have a long talk about it, you don't see any immediate material benefit.



But. You go out with a clear conscience- you could have done less.


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Loki_the_trickster
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

Loki_the_trickster

Has sharp edges
Location: Stuck in the mire

Total posts: 1266
Posted:Did we have the same dad? I went through a very simiar situation , my mom and siblings and me wernt even mentioned in his obituary as existing, only his wife and her kids which were his step-kids were listed as "survived by" he never paid child support and was never involved with us really after the divorce. Your fortunate to have this oppertunity I think.....Wish I had a opportunity like that we never had a option his wife got everything and if I had a letter that could benifit my mom , afterall it costs a hell of alot of money to raise kids, I'd take it. I say dont sign it and like Ry said if it comes to morallity use the latter of his sugestions and split the estate between the moms and the kids on both sides will get thier share long down the road.
Hope my humble opinion helps..... oh and here hug hug hug hug hug I'm sure you could use those


My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Franz Kafka wished for his literary works to be burned.

His best friend decided it would be better to publish them.

Now every child in German schools, and probably lots of Czech and other countries', too, has to read it.

Go figure ubblol


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:I'd say that if he'd really intended for the letter to be acted upon he'd have had it witnessed and made legal. Without that there is the fact that it might have been written as a possible course of action, which wasn't finanlised.

You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:oops... I posted without reading through the serious stuff first, sorry Andrea hug

My mum's half-sister convinced her dad to not include her in his will. It is until today, as far as I know, the only thing my mother is really upset about concerning her half-siblings (she's the only child of the 2nd wife), though she's made her peace with them as far as I know.

I wouldn't acknowledge the letter, but then I'm not in your situation. I don't even know if it's a really significant amount, or if it's just about the principle... you could for example accept the money, give your mother as much as he owed her through child support and give the rest back if you wanted to be nice to both sides.

It's good that your stepmum doesn't put you under a lot of pressure to accept the letter. Good luck with making your decision hug


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:I too would ignore the letter. But then, I'm going by my relationship with my own Step mother...

But then, (speculating here) If your father cut you out of his will, you can't have had a great relationship with your stepmother... After all, it's probably her that wanted him to cut you and your siblings out of his will, and he did it to keep her quiet. I find it hard to believe that a father would completely disown his Little Girl(s), not saying it didn't happen, just saying that it doesn't happen often, unconditional love and all that.

I would definately ignore the letter.

Here is the point where I come up with a witty phrase like 'blood is thicker than water' but I can't think of anything good to say...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:"After all, it's probably her that wanted him to cut you and your siblings out of his will, and he did it to keep her quiet."

umm

Not necessarily.


Getting to the other side smile

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted: Written by: FurryPurple


umm

Not necessarily.



That's why I put the 'Speculating' and 'not saying it didn't happen' bits... wink

hug


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think it's different because it's HIS stuff.

If he said "I want you to smack this person in the face" I certainly wouldn't do it (unless I wanted to smack them anyway wink ) but it is HIS money that he wants to go to a certain place.

Another option is follow your father's wishes by signing the paper and then voluntarily give some of that money to the people who you feel deserve it. This way both feelings are respected.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Loki_the_trickster
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

Loki_the_trickster

Has sharp edges
Location: Stuck in the mire

Total posts: 1266
Posted:If she signs the letter it all goes to her step mom NYC
I still say dont sign and your mom should get what shes owed wink hug


My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:i agree. although a persons last wish is their last decision in this world, and i guess should be respected in their memory...that doesn't make them less human, it doesn't make that decision flawless, less selfish, whatever...they were still the same person when they made it.

i'm not sure that people's last wished should have the right to cause upset and trauma to those sitll living, i would use your judgement as if your father were still alive. make your decision based on your own ethics rather then a need to please someone who, after all, is no longer around to be affected by it.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Loki_the_trickster
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

Loki_the_trickster

Has sharp edges
Location: Stuck in the mire

Total posts: 1266
Posted:True Tao Star and there is also the fact that it is unwitnessed and not leagel. Thats why a will is supposed to be done in the presence of a lawyer so it can be sure that these decistions are made in a sane and proper frame of mind. I dont see canceling a leagal document with an illeagal one as something that should happen. If he went through the trouble of getting it leagal that you should have a part of his inheritance then I'd look at that as his last wish not some letter either written in anger or under duress or something. Also whos to say , and this is the synical side of me , that your step mom didnt forge the letter? people can and do do those kinds of things. Didnt you say you reconciled with your dad before he died? why would he then take you out of his will? Just a thought that passed through my mind shrug

My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....

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inactive
SILVER Member since May 2005

inactive

old hand


Total posts: 722
Posted:Post deleted by Sunbird

To you who has been accessing my online accounts, changing my login details, locations and posting censored about me, realise, you are not worth revenge, you are not worth my attention, you are nothing, and that is all you ever will be.

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:I'm of the mind if he really wanted it he would have had it legalized, especially in light of the changes that happened since it was written.

Thats a reflection of how I am (The only person I know who had a will and a seperate ahcd filled out by the age of 19!), but with things like notarization fairly easy to come by, well, I think its a valid point. You can then decide if you want to redistribute things one way or another, but I'd wouldn't go signing away any legal rights when he didn't sign them away for you when he had the oppurtunity...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There

Total posts: 6140
Posted:I agree with most the points above,

If he really wanted it carried out he would have had it legalised. Unless there is something that we have not understood (illness stopping him getting it legalised?)

Also did he write the letter before of after you reconcilled? I would doubt he wrote it afterwards? In which case, as mentioned before, it isn't really his "last wish"?

Whatever happens, whatever you choose, don't ever hold any regrets. My father always tells me when having a huge decision to make to decide (take your time etc..) but to never hold any regrets. Whichever choice you make, it'll be the right one.

hug hug2 hug


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Birgit, hug I actually laughed out loud about Frank Kafta- had no idea. ! Made me think these kind of decisions really could be important!

I think I am decided to not sign the paper. Let the legal process divide things fairly, then each individual can decide what to do from there. There may be nothing much anyways. That was one of the funny things, the documents I was asked to sign came without information saying what exactly I would be signing away... One of the reasons I think I wont sign.

I am not going to do it with an attitude of a fight, I will be peaceful and considerate, but I think the rights of us kids and my mom should be acknowledged. I think that I may be able to end some hurtful stories from the past with this, and truly lay it all to rest. The legal way includes consideration of the needs of everyone suficiently, more so than following his wishes to leave everything to my step mom .

NYC- part of me agrees with you, if I could totally see things as his property. But when he owes my mom so much, is it really his? It was bought with money that should
( legally and morally) have gone to her, to support us... he bought a antique car for show and play while we were hungry.She cashed her pensions to pay our rent. He did not. The issue gets tangled for me at that point.

About last wishes in general, for myself I agree with Tao Star , that it should be no more or less than one would if they are alive. Perhaps people just die as they lived, with all the complexities and confusions still in place. So I will try to respect the last wishes of those I know, as much as I can, yet also respect the feelings and needs of the living, as much as I can.I guess it is a comprimise.

I am thinking he did not mean harm with this letter, and so I will not take it that way. We had done an amazing job healing old wounds, moving on and enjoying each other, that is what I will hold on to.

Kyrian, way to go for having a will et al!Sh-t happens. It is amazing to me witnessing how complex things get in general when people die. I have had the dubious opportunity to see many of the various options of how it is handled, and beleive me, the clearer the wishes of the individual are laid out, and backed up in law- everything down to the music of the service and what happens to the remains- the easier it is on the living trying to take care of it all.

Thanks guys, definately clearer headed today.
grouphug


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Loki_the_trickster
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

Loki_the_trickster

Has sharp edges
Location: Stuck in the mire

Total posts: 1266
Posted:clap clap clapI truely believe your making the right desision hug

My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:hug

Take care Andrea...


Getting to the other side smile

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Well thought through Andrea

meditate


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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