Forums > Social Chat > Fire Ettiquette - hissy fits

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hey all,I would like to relate a thing that happened to me this weekend and get your opinions/thoughts:On saturday a few of the Sydney twirlers and I went to an inner-city street festival/markets of sorts: bands, DJ's, stalls etc. Before dusk, we sought out someone that looked as though they were affiliated with the festival and informed him that we were fire performers and would be happy to do some spinning. This guy was very interested, especially considering that he too was a twirler but had neglected to bring his toys along and was keen for a twirl a bit later. Soon after sundown, me Frenzie and Finn lit up and performed in front of the stage, accompanied by some wicked drumming. After my first burn, I came back to the fuel dump to re-light, but this promoter guy grabbed my sticks, lit up and went out. This grated on me a little because I was really wanting to twirl with my friends while they were on stage. Oh well...no real biggie.Later in the evening, the three of us were twirling again and had, along with the drummers, attracted quite an audience. This promoter guy just helped himself to my equipment and proceeded to hog my sticks again (I'm very generous with my stuff, very rarely saying no to anyone who wants to play, but common courtesy is a must. I get territorial when people use my things without asking). anyway. So this guy was starting to get on my/our nerves a little. In addition to not asking, he was also very preachy: "never let the flame go out - always pass your flame on to the next firedancer" and "don't concentrate on solo stuff when you're out there, concentrate on really basic synchro moves" etc. valid points, but we weren't workshopping!!At one point, he interrupted my routine to have me "pass on the flame" to his staff. I did so, without comment. A little later he came out again when I was in my sweet spot of spinning. Apparantly he was standing very close behind me so Finn, being ever-observant suggested to my boyfriend that he offer this guy a lighter. this guy turned down the offer, indicating to my man that he would be using my staves to light his staff with. He kept trying to get my attention, whistling to me and whatnot. Eventually I turned around to him, relenting, and said "can you use a lighter next time please?" He got really pissed at me stating "isn't this about sharing the flame and sharing the spirit of fire dancing?" and I said "Yeah, but I'm in the middle of my routine!!". He then threw down his (lit) staff at my feet and whined "use a lighter yourself next time. thanks for sharing" then stormed off! I couldn't believe it! a hissy fit in front of an audience because I don't share the same perspective as him on the ettiquette of fire dancing. not only that, the staff that he had left burning at my feet was not even his.it kind of put a dampner on my evening and now I'm wondering whether I was out of line for not being so willing to be interrupted/share or whether he was out of line for being such a dick head...

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I have to say Flash Fire I think you were loads more patient than I would have been. I tend to be a bit possessive of my toys when I am performing (playing is a whole nother thing) and hate for them to be touched by anyone else. I also would've bopped him gently to let him know exactly how serious I was about not interupting my flow. It was insane of him and I do not think you were at all out of line. However, I would find who ever was the head of this thing and let him know about the other person's behaviour for two reasons...I wouldn't want anyone thinking that someone who behaved so unprofessionally was associated with me and as a producer, I would want to know if someone I hired acted so unprofessionally so as not to hire them again, you know?If you choose to let it drop though, just have faith in that you handled him with al curteousness, to an extreme I don't think he deserved. Group fire dancing may be about sharing but it seems this man could preach the lesson bu not follow it, as you described him as a spotlight/attention hog with a me-first you share complex...IMHO.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 30 April 2001).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:Problem is Pele that this guy is the head of Rainbow Circus in Sydney, he's not just some guy off the street.He did have valid points about "not doing individual stuff", but hey like flash said, we just got up and did some stuff, the crowd seemed stoked and we all had fun, sorry if i dont find standing in a line doing giant butterflies very interesting . . . .I think its all differences of opinion and he is not purely into the fire thing, but all circus acts and pleasing the crowd, where as we are interested in improving ourselves and having a dance and in that way impressing the crowds.He was very over bearing, and esp considering he had only met us this one time i too get grated when people pick up my staff and poi without asking and proceeed to light up and dump them elsewhere. Many times have flash, finn and i had to wait around for some other people to finish passing back our toys.I dont know, but when i didnt have my own poi, i bought some, i didnt go and annoy someone else who has having a mad time playing asking for their equipment, i hate it when im in the middle of a spin and someone comes up and interupts me . . . .In the end, i never saw this incident cause i had gone home, but i can vividly imagine him doing this, i think a fit over someone else's opinions while dancing is stupid....although it would have been great to have been able to use and get into their circus space, i dont think any of us really need that kind of dominating attitude to our dancing

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:I'm with Pele. I've only gotten into public performing recently, but there are a few obvious rules:People performing together should be on the same page. If you are performing with friends and some new guy, it is reasonable for you and your friends to have an understanding, and the new guy needs to get the story straight in advance.Don't mess with other people's stuff unless they invite you to.Beyond the substance of this guy's misbehavior, it sounds like his attitude was in serious need of readjustment.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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firenomad
member
Location: Sydney, nsw, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Apr 2001
Total posts: 26
Posted:I was there too, on & off, I didn't see this incident but otherwise the vibe seemed really positive & people were having fun.I agree with you, that guy was out of line.He didn't know you so it's especially rude to help yourself to someone else's stuff. Amongst friends it's probably ok, but generally I still ask cause there's no excuse not to be courteous.You guys werent being paid as performers so its your playtime, play as you wish.In terms of interrupting, its not good form but I have to admit, I do it sometimes amongst friends. Otherwise, its best to hang around passively until the twirler voluntarily stops to light you up or if youre desperate to burn, use a lighter. Its not like the bloody flame came from Greece by relay.And the temper tantrum, well, Id just treat him like a 4-year-old.firenomad

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emthren
member
Location: Sydney
Member Since: 31st May 2001
Total posts: 57
Posted:I don't think I'd have the nerve to even ask to borrow someone's equipment if they're evidently going to be using it, let alone take it!
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But him complaining when he's on the receiving end of a huge favour is just downright inconsiderate, whatever the situation.


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Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:Yeah Firenomad, its always different among friends and also like u said, it was our fun time, we had no obligation to anyone but ourselves . . .I mean sometimes ill light off other people, but when they stop for break or finish up or something, but i wouldnt walk up to someone i dont know and demand they pass their sticks on, which is pretty much what he was doing

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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firenomad
member
Location: Sydney, nsw, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Apr 2001
Total posts: 26
Posted:Ok so Ill watch out for menace man from rainbow.I always feel a sense of guilt when I get possessive about my equipment because its not really in the spirit of twirling but I guess were all human and a little consideration of others goes a long way to making our world a better place.FirenomadHappiness and insight to ya.
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Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:Yeah i think the same thing, i should share etc etc, but when it comes down to it, i brought them along so i can play, we bought the fuel (which doesnt go a very long way).If its a selfish attitude then i guess im guilty, but if im not using my poi or stick, for sure if someone asks i dont say no...

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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firenomad
member
Location: Sydney, nsw, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Apr 2001
Total posts: 26
Posted:Yep, i'm with ya on that. I don't appreciate insistent non-contributing fuel hogs either. It's nice to be asked.

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Posted:i think you handled it well, i mean look you never lost your temper once, and you couldnt have known that he would act that way at the first time you confronted him. although it was hardly a confrontation at all. look at it this way, he was pushing you around all night, and you took it. then you ask him to stop interrupting you, (i assume this is the first time you "confront him") and he just goes off the deep end. obviously the guy had some issues or was under the influence of something. it was clearly not your fault.

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Flash, I don't think it's a selfish attitude to want your gear looked after and to have some basic manners when dealing with people - just reality. We work hard making our gear, sourcing our fuel, making things safe, etc, that when our tools and our art are not treated with the respect we think they deserve, we get a bit miffed.I have to agree with Pele also , performing and playing are two very different things. Most of us share willingly when playing, as for some of us, that's how we first learnt the joy of poi
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But performing brings a whole different set of possibilities and perspectives. He should have pulled his head in after accepting your invitation to perform at the festival and respected your performance (however formal or informal) for what it was - a valuable donation to the people of Surry Hills.
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Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:Did we hit you with our Wednesday night things yet Firenomad?You should come down, if ya want some more details should give me an email....its in newtown at 7:30 on wednesdays
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- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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firenomad
member
Location: Sydney, nsw, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Apr 2001
Total posts: 26
Posted:Thanks, that'd cool. It's a bad night for me but I'll make it when I can.

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Posted:Well, I guess I join the chorus in saying this guy was way off. Seems he has a certain way of doing things and can't deal with others that don't follow. I think Pele's hit the nail on the head. I know I've ragged on people for not passing the flame. It's a very useful technique in maintaining the flow of a set. By no means necessary though. I've also ragged on people for breaking my flow to light them. I tried to tell one fella to sculk in, to match my flow if you want to get lit in the middle of my set and I'll lit you at an appropriate time. He would just stand there and say "hey, light me." Anyway, no worries about being protective of your tools. The way I look at it, my fire tools are a lot like the tools some use for magical practices. I wouldn't just go into someone's house and pick up something from their altar without asking. That's how I feel about fire tools. Oh, well, temper tantrum's right. Sorry for all the fuss. Diana

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Funny thing, passing the flame doesn't seem that big a deal with most folks down here, but the impression I get is that when people decide to do it, the timing is up to the lighter, not the lightee. Which makes more sense to me.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Posted:i dont see what difference where it is lit from makes. it is the heat that lights it not the fire, and when it does light, it is its own fire. the fire does not travel from one to the other, each is its own separate flame, and it will be the same flame whether it is lit from a lighter, a tongue, another person's poi, or anything else. Its something of a cool idea, passing the flame, but certainly nothing to pms over.redbrotherGod bless

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CAINED-AND-UNABLE
member
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 19th Feb 2001
Total posts: 214
Posted:differences in oppinion/ettiquetter are common but he was blatentely out of line to forget common manners and(in my opinion ), to interupt your routine. i often stop a routine to help friend re-light but not because they were standing there pressuring me or tryin to get my attention.dont let people like that ruin yuor night. spin on.

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