Forums > Help! > SCA and fire spinning

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted: Maybe someone here could help

The SCA has decided to forbid any Fire Spinning at their events. They say its a safety concern and that the liability is too great. This is their prerogative, but some of us would like to find a way to change their mind.
People are trying to talk to their lawyers and such, but I was wondering if anyone here could help
Ideas on how to convince them that if properly done, Fire Spinning can be safe and is great entertainment
If someone knows someone, like one of the lawyers
If someone has been through something like this before and how they overcame it


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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drvariety
SILVER Member since Mar 2006

drvariety

member
Location: Mission viejo CA, USA

Total posts: 75
  Posted:eeek....
I've been to quite a few SCA activities myself, and one main liability issue I can see is the probability of someone doing Poi under influence of alchohol... also not sure on wheher Poi is exactly historricaly accurate... but w/e it would be entertaining


There is nothing to be afraid of. Virtual reality will eventually rehabilitate your mind and eventually your body. Everything will be allright, i promise. Just concentrate. Try some music.

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
  Posted:Seeing an Aussie Scadian tnite, will ask what he knows

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
  Posted:What is SCA?

:R


Poi THEO(R)IST

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:Society for Creative Anachronism

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Loki_the_trickster
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

Loki_the_trickster

Has sharp edges
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA

Total posts: 1266
  Posted:Post deleted by Loki_the_trickster

My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:it's not anarchy...it's outside of time, or out of time.
perhaps the same root words but not the same goal
think renfairs


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Loki_the_trickster
SILVER Member since Feb 2006

Loki_the_trickster

Has sharp edges
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA

Total posts: 1266
  Posted:Post deleted by Loki_the_trickster

My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:sorry bad night turned into bad day
humor is sort of lost on me right now


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
  Posted:I thought it was the Society of Creative Acronyms...



umm


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boobookittyfudge
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

boobookittyfudge

sneaky little kitty
Location: Missouri, USA

Total posts: 251
  Posted:Hmmmm. we have an SCA event in a couple of months and i think we are going to spin. we just had to get permission from the woman whose property we will be on. we are signing waiver that we are responsible for anything/damage that may occur. but the SCA did not tell us we were not allowed. i guess it depends on where you are performing.

you want the truth? you can't handle the truth!

mmmmm...cheesecake

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
  Posted:I'd imagine it's regional in nature, probably up to the ones running the event. Some things you can do are:

1. Find out the fire performance laws in the area the event will be.

2. Find out what is needed for a legal permit and do the legwork for the permit so all the event holders/property owners/your troupe need to do is fill it out.

3. Compile a synopsis of what toys will be used, how they are built and used and what safety precautions are used with them.

4. Compile a list of safety gear and precautions that are used in general, how they will be used and who will be in charge of that use.

5. Make sure the gear and precautions are up to spec for what is required for the fire performance permit.

Having all this info up front should allay their fears about safety, as your group well know what is necessary and are very familiar with safety at this point... etc.. etc.. Even if you don't get the chance for a particular event, having this information and knowing how to get it will help ensure future performances.

At least, that's the theory :P.
Good luck.


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing Poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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SickWithWonder


member


Total posts: 56
  Posted:WAIT A SECOND!!! they are concerned about liability issues, meanwhile they have guys in armor beating eachother with sticks! seems a little hypocritical to me....

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boobookittyfudge
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

boobookittyfudge

sneaky little kitty
Location: Missouri, USA

Total posts: 251
  Posted:hehehe

you want the truth? you can't handle the truth!

mmmmm...cheesecake

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
  Posted:But they olny hurt each other....unless someone is silly enough to wander into the Eric.

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:spinning in general is ok they just don't want big flames flying around
in SCA events, Fire Spinning is out of bounds...fairs and that may be different but big national events...they don't want it around...something about drunks and fires....i don't know
they also claim that it was not period but it is, if not technically but because at the time ethnic things were being brought in from all the explorers and expanded commerce


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:There are alot of regulations to those "sticks" and "armour"
and there are not with the fire.

I have seen it go badly. Drunks walking into the fire actually.

And because of the historical inaccuracy, my understanding is that it is *not* regional but a blanket thing...and they have every right to do that. If localized groups break the doctrine, then that is also their perogative.

I agree with it based on what the SCA is supposed to be, a historical re-enactment society. If it was about entertainment, then it would be a Ren Faire group, which is a horse of a different color. They are about historic preservation of a specific era, in which case, spinning has no true part.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:there are description of it at balls and events like that... unfortunately can't put my hands on them now. the group has gotten together historical references

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:I've read the "historical references" and it isn't Poi they are talking about.

Peole tend to justify things, or find a way, when they really want to do stuff. Scadians have very often justified anachronisms which are out of place because they want to do them.

Bellydancing is another one of those things, for example.
Some of the weapons, or brewing techniques, etc...

If a group is going to say they are recreating a certain place and a certain time, then they should stick to it and not attempt to justify something which does not belong.

As for spinning, there is no problem with non-fire spinning (chalk it up to meteors historically then see my above statement) as far as I know. I think that is a fair comprimise for the safety of everyone.

Our group out here has banned it completely, and I am fine with that too.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Sphear


Sphear

member


Total posts: 60
  Posted:I would say if you (as a fire spinner) had an insurance policy for fire spinning/performing the SCA would go for it. I'm in the SCA and that's what I'm doing so that I can spin at their events. (I still have to run it by the people running the events but I think it will fly.)

Everything meets in the center...

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:I am still in the pre-burn stage but part of a group of burners on myspace...
the word is that by SCA regs it is outlawed but may be allowed by individual events...


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Sphear


Sphear

member


Total posts: 60
  Posted:I just found out from my SCA group which is the Northern Army, in the US, that spinning fire is fine in this group. So it probably depends on where in the SCA you are, most of the Scadian's up here love it, and want it at their events!

Which is sweet for me wink


Everything meets in the center...

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:yay lucky you biggrin

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Rhysma
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Rhysma

Member
Location: Springfield, MO, USA

Total posts: 8
  Posted: Written by: Sphear


I would say if you (as a fire spinner) had an insurance policy for fire spinning/performing the SCA would go for it. I'm in the SCA and that's what I'm doing so that I can spin at their events. (I still have to run it by the people running the events but I think it will fly.)



Baron Jon, the current Seneschal for the Kingdom of Calontir has advised me that the SCA has only outlawed Fire Spinning in areas where the SCA would be held liable for damages. I am the Autocrat for the event that boobookittyfudge mentioned and in our case it is a personal property owner issue. All Jon really wanted us to stress is that our spinning group is not SCA sponsored (which pretty much means our performers can't get into the event for free). The performers take personal responsiblity if they get hurt and an area is roped off and will have people watching for the safety of the spectators. I certainly would not approve of people spinning fire around tents or in crowds.

 Written by: Pele


I've read the "historical references" and it isn't Poi they are talking about.

Bellydancing is another one of those things, for example.




While the SCA tries to maintain a certain "periodness", you have to remember after all that it is a game, and that people travel and pay to go to events to be entertained. Certain things, while not period, are still maintained within the SCA because there is a population of members that enjoy doing it, or watching it.

We can also debate about whether it is deamed appropriate because it was taking place during that time in Europe, or if it was taking place during that time but outside of Europe (such as Middle Eastern dancing). Some things that people do not approve of in the SCA were actually happening during the period but not in the European society the SCA tries to create. People with Asian personas, especially those that wish to portray the Japanese, feel this stigma often.

Therefore, I think it all comes down to one principal. If you are safe and your liability bases are covered, the people that have paid to enter your event will appreciate the entertainment. Even if its not up to strict SCA "periodness"


Just because your tattoo has Chinese characters in it doesn't make you spiritual. It translates to beef with broccoli. The last time you did anything spiritual, you were praying to God you weren't pregnant. You're not spiritual. You're just high.

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
  Posted:thank you that was most helpful

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
  Posted:SCA

Scantily
Clad
Animals


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Sphear


Sphear

member


Total posts: 60
  Posted:I thought it was Scantily Clothed Animals... ?

Everything meets in the center...

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allfiredup


allfiredup

stranger
Location: nz

Total posts: 19
  Posted:lol



the sca is stuff up at timez.. ubblol



you have u done steel??



and



thay dont mind if u have por/staff at all ubblol





ignorance is bliss but knowledge is power

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Sphear


Sphear

member


Total posts: 60
  Posted:I haven't played officially with steel.

But I do use it on my own.

Fun stuff, fire, steel, fighting, burning....

Peace

check it out!

www.sikhball.com


Everything meets in the center...

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Sphear


Sphear

member


Total posts: 60
  Posted:May 20th in Jericho, VT there is a Rennaisance faire.

We'll be doing fire-sikhball at it.

Lots of other fire stuff too, sword fighting, Poi, staff, maybe some Fire Whip, come one come all!!!!


Everything meets in the center...

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
  Posted:SCA means Society for Creative Anachronisms

An *anachronism* is by definition not historically accurate.

Creative means developing new things or putting things together in a new way.

There are some re-eanactment groups that are serious sticklers for period accuracy, but so far as I have met them here, not the SCA.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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