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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:I will try my best not to make this rant about the evil corporation of Apple so lets not make it into one so here goes.

Basically my Ipod is fully screwed after only having it since July last year, I sent it back to Apple adn they decided that the problem with my ipod was caused by 'accidental damage, misuse/ abuse' and therefore it is not covered under their guarantee so they sent it back to me, still broken. I dont really knwo how this is possible, true I've had it for 6 months but its not like it's beend ropped, or at least not anymore than how things accidently drop, and certainly not sufficient to warrant it breaking about 7 months, however there isnt really anything i can do, they say I broke it, I say I didnt, in the end they were the ones who the 'thorough' diagnostic. My word against theirs so I dont really think I have any kind of case for argument, or do I?

But anyway secondly assuming I cannot get them to sort it which is looking the case I need a new MP3 player, do I trust Apple again, this is my second Ipod in the last 3 years, if I got a new one and it broke would they do the same again, I dont think I can trust a new Ipod. But that brings me to my next issue.

The third problem is I have about 2500 songs on my Ipod (and therefore music library on my computer) the majority of which are the format of either MPEG-4 or M4A, I think M4A and MPEG 4 are Apple's own format and so if I went with a different brand I'm assuming I couldnt add my old music library and therefore loosing the majority of my songs which I really really don't want. Or am I wrong?

So my question is does anyone know of ways to either convert the formats or any MP3players out there despite apple that support the format? So I dont have to go back to the evil guys and get another Ipod frown


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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FearsaorRosa
FearsaorRosa

Cyr Wheel Artist, Fire Performer, Poi Enthusiast
Location: World
Member Since: 12th May 2006
Total posts: 43
Posted:Hello out there with Mp3 Player/Ipod Woes. Please dont throw them away as your fed up with them. Even if they are broken beyond reasonable repair. (If you are based in the UK) You can send your broken/faulty MP3/Ipod to the voluntry organisation/charity I run. We can make use of them by refurbishing them or taking the flash memory and placing it in another player. These are then distributed to the blind containing Mp3 audiobooks. (Its better than throwing it oin the bin)What Apple are doing is terrible they know that the Ipod has severe (I would say almost deliberate) software faults. Pm me an I will give you the details of the organisation to send unwanted/broken mp3/Ipods to.More details available if needed.
Thanks


I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:I think Mac better fix this battery issue pdq. iPods and iTunes have been the one thing that reversed notion that Mac users are weirdos who just don't understand what a 'real' personal computer should be like. Damn shame if a silly little music implant should put things backwards.
I did see an iPod 'spare battery' accessory in my Mac shop today though so maybe they're on the way...


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted: Written by: FieryFireWorld


Hello out there with Mp3 Player/Ipod Woes. Please dont throw them away as your fed up with them. Even if they are broken beyond reasonable repair. (If you are based in the UK) You can send your broken/faulty MP3/Ipod to the voluntry organisation/charity I run. We can make use of them by refurbishing them or taking the flash memory and placing it in another player. These are then distributed to the blind containing Mp3 audiobooks. (Its better than throwing it oin the bin)What Apple are doing is terrible they know that the Ipod has severe (I would say almost deliberate) software faults. Pm me an I will give you the details of the organisation to send unwanted/broken mp3/Ipods to.More details available if needed.
Thanks



Ithink you should post all the details of this in social chat. It's something lots of people would respond too.

I have an old dead flash player I would be happy to donate, please put all the contact details/web links etc in the post, no one will consider it spam if it's for such a deserving charity smile


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:Ok, this is going to be a bit of a rant, but it should clear some things up.

So, the issue (started in the chat thread, but I think this is a better place to post it) is that the iPod batteries only last 18 months and then (according to the video) they cost $255. There has also been some debate about creative players being somehow better in some ways (you know who you are).

Ok, so the test. I have a creative Zen touch and a 3rd Gen iPod. Both are out of warranty and both have close to failing batteries, only lasting about 20 minutes after a full charge. (The Zen is fictional and the iPod is ok by the way).

Ok, Apple first. I went to apple.com and from that point it took me 4 clicks (support, iPod + iTunes graphic, My iPod battery doesn't last as long as expected, iPod Battery Replacement website) to get to a page telling me how much it costs, what I need, how long etc. This was:

http://www.apple.com/support/ipod/service/battery/
br>
I filled out the service request as well, but that doesnt count for this test.

Next, the Zen.

In total it took me 8 clicks plus a search before I got to a page that told me I needed to email someone about it. The 8 clicks included selecting the exact player and my country. I emailed them with the following (from a web form):

 Written by: me on the web form


Subject: CLE - Technical Support Request - (Zen Touch)
Name: Simon Roe
E-mail Address: XXXXXXX
Self Description: Advanced PC User
Country: United Kingdom
------------------
Support Inquiry: ID(3) My Creative hardware stopped functioning correctly
Product: Zen Touch
Purchase Date:
Serial Number:
------------------
Operating System: Macintosh OS X.x
Creative Model Number: don't know
Computer Brand/Model:
Processor/CPU:
Memory:
BIOS Type/Revision:
System Board/Chipset:
------------------
Detailed Problem Description:
The battery is dead on my player, can you tell me how much it is for a new battery please? How much do I need to pay in total?




About 2 hours later (2.21 PM) I got this:

 Written by: Creative


Dear Customer,

To help address your inquiry as quickly as possible, we are sending you
this automated express reply that includes the steps you should take to
restore full functionality of your Zen Touch.

Please enter Recovery Mode, where you can perform simple Recovery
operations on your player:

1. Turn off the Zen.
2. Hold down the Play/Pause button and insert a paper clip into the
reset hole. The reset hole is located on the side of your player in the
bottom left corner.
3. Remove the paper clip and release the Play/Pause button once the Zen
Touch has booted in to Recovery Mode.

There are three options in Recovery Mode that will help to restore the
functionality of the player. Please try each of those options one at the
time and test if the functionality of the player is restored:
1. Clean Up: This performs a disk scan. It does not remove any data.
Once completed select ?Reboot?.
2. Format All: This formats the player's hard disk. Note: ALL CONTENTS
ON THE MP3 PLAYER WILL BE LOST!! Once completed select ?Reboot?.
3. Reload Firmware: This option starts the process of reloading the
player?s firmware:
a) download a new firmware for the player from:

http://www.europe.creative.com/support/downloads/
br>
and save it on your PC in the location you will easily find it ( e.g.
Desktop)
b) Select Option ?Reload Firmware? from the player?s Recovery Menu and
then follow the on-screen instructions on your player. This process will
take a few minutes. Please be patient and do not disconnect your player
during the process.
c) Once completed select ?Reboot?.

If these steps fail to resolve the problem then please reply to this
automated email and a Technical Support advisor will assist you further.


For your convenience please find a checklist below. It will help us to
assist you further.

Player enters recovery mode (Yes/No)
Clean up and reboot successfully completed with no errors (Yes/No)
Format and reboot successfully completed with no errors (Yes/No)
Reload OS successfully completed with no errors (Yes/No)
Downloaded firmware detects and installs (Yes/No)

Did you get any errors when you tried all the above steps?

Best Regards

Creative Customer Support Services
Creative Labs Europe

Creative Care Protection Plan Now Available for Zen Product Family!
Your can protect your investment by extending the warranty coverage of
your Zen Touch to a full 2 years.
To learn more, please visit:
http://uk.europe.creative.com/shop/welcome.asp?category=102&
br>




So I sent this in reply (at 2.23):

 Written by: me



This did not help at all.

Please can you tell me how much a new battery is?

How do I go about getting one? Will it cost me for you to fit it?
Can I do it myself?





(7.55 AM on the 12th)

 Written by: creative


Dear Simon

Thanks for contacting Creative Technical Support.

Please do not screw open the player as doing so will void the warranty,
if there is any left on the player.
May i know the serial number and date of purchase for your zen touch?
A link to find serial number of the product: http://uk.europe.creative.com/support/kb/article.asp?l=3&sid=6648
br>
I will need you to carry out the following troubleshooting:
Connect the zen touch to power main via power adapter.
Does the player power on?

Charge the zen touch for 4 - 5 hours.
Is there any charging icon?
Are you able to power on the zen touch itself?
Does the power adapter feel warm?

Kindly carry out the following troubleshooting on your pc:
Click START -> RUN -> type MSCONFIG and click OK.
Click SELECTIVE STARTUP and then uncheck LOAD STARTUP GROUP ITEMS.
Apply the changes and reboot the computer when prompted.
Disconnect all other USB devices. Connect your player to the back USB
port of the pc.
Open up device manager. Go to START -> RUN -> type in devmgmt.msc
Is your player detected under USB controller or windows portable device?
If your player is not detected, please try other USB ports on your pc.

Please retain all the previous correspondence when replying to this
email.
Best Regards
Jason
Creative Customer Support Services
Creative Labs Europe

To provide feedback on your "Creative Experience" and our service please
click on the following link:

http://www.creativehelp.com/support/contact/welcome.asp?r=CLE&d=TS
br>
Please note that technical queries submitted through this link won't be
answered.





(10.27 AM)

 Written by: me


I don't know the number, it was a gift and I am trying to get a price to fix it.

Also, I told you on the form that I am on a Mac, so until I get a
start menu, you'll have to try harder.

Now please can you tell me how much a new battery costs? I don't mind
sending it back to you, but I need to know a price.

Why not just put it on the web site?

I await your quick reply.





(11.13 AM)

 Written by: creative


Dear Simon,

We don't sell the battery as a spare part. The player has to be
replaced.

As your Creative product is no longer covered by a hardware warranty, I
can offer you a repair/replacement Zen Touch 20GB at a charge of 95.18
(incl VAT and Post & Packaging).

This includes, labour, replacement/repair and operational costs. The
cost is subject to change until the order has been placed. Your product
will be replaced with a refurbished unit and is covered by a six month
warranty.

We can only accept Mastercard and Visa credit cards as form of payment.
If you would like to take advantage of this repair/replacement service,
please let me know your address and telephone number and I will contact
you by phone regarding the credit card details, as these should not be
sent via email due to security reasons.

Please retain all the previous correspondence when replying to this
email.

Best Regards

Odd Magne
Creative Customer Support Services
Creative Labs Europe




Ok, so after all that, it actually costs more to get a new battery for the Zen, and the support was very bad compared to apple. Please note, that I had gone to apples site before to look for the same thing, so it wasnt 100% new to me whereas creatives was, however I dont think you should have to know a support web site for it to become useful to you.

Also, it took 23 hours to get the price off Creative.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:clap


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted: Written by: Sym

There has also been some debate about creative players being somehow better in some ways (you know who you are).





No, who are we? ubbangel Anyway it wasn't debate, it was merely a conveyance of facts nana ubblol



how come you ignored their attempts to help with questions such as

"Does the player power on?

Is there any charging icon?

Are you able to power on the zen touch itself?

Does the power adapter feel warm?"



As they tried to help find other alternate causes you just rant about battery price, perhaps your adapter was the cause not the player? Perhaps a technical component inside the player related to the charge process? You shouldn't presume to know the reasons for low power output or that it's internal battery failure wink



Perhaps Apple are better at batteries now that they've been caught up with and it's been so publicised their change of policy ensured they saved face, and of course they're cheaper batteries, Creative only have to fix about 10 a year compared the trillions and billions of ipod batteries



*runs aways after vague and ambiguously misleading statements*


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:ubblol So you're saying that Creative don't have a good support for the batteries because they never break at all? umm

ubblol

hug

Happy Birthday again by the way smile


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Exactly! ubbangel

It took less than a day to ultimately respond, they asked tech questions to help identify the route cause (that you ignored) instead of immediately presuming the user was correct when stating the battery was dead. That certainly elongated the process compared to apple who know the battery is fooked cuz they're more than used to it happening so have a faq that's probably read about 20000 times a day wink


Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:I give up ubblol

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

Delete

Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:bounce YEY!!

I mean

poo frown You take the fun out of everything! wink ubblol


Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:Go check your emails Mr Birthday Boy: there is some bad news waiting for you...

hug


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Pen Draven
Pen Draven

Unofficial Lord Of Confusion And Pirate Extrodinaire
Location: Nuneaton
Member Since: 1st Sep 2005
Total posts: 1363
Posted:awww carry on,, you two are brightening my day smile hug

Some men see things and say why....

I Dream of things that never were and say Why Not....?

Oh No I'm going to get Shot Alive if he finds out - DA wink

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Pen Draven
Pen Draven

Unofficial Lord Of Confusion And Pirate Extrodinaire
Location: Nuneaton
Member Since: 1st Sep 2005
Total posts: 1363
Posted:and happy birthday by the way master Dunc off topic i know...

Some men see things and say why....

I Dream of things that never were and say Why Not....?

Oh No I'm going to get Shot Alive if he finds out - DA wink

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:so the conclusion is that, compared to the other major manufacturers, apple (and the third party manufacturers that support their porducts) are way ahead of the game when it comes to battery replacement in mp3 players smile

this may well be because they have such a large market share and as such have been pressured to improve their service, but it is still pretty clear to see:

a replacement battery for an ipod costs 30 whereas you have to buy a whole new unit when the battery runs out in a creative zen touch.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted: Written by: coleman


a replacement battery for an ipod costs 30 whereas you have to buy a whole new unit when the battery runs out in a creative zen touch.



Thats not 100% true. It would cost $60/$70 for the new battery that is actually a new iPod, so the service is the same with the iPod and Zen, only it costs more for the Zen.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:replacement batteries for my zen cost 20



i'm not familiar with the Zen Touch.

Why is it so much more expensive?

is it because it has a non-replaceable battery?

Why yes it is!



Why is it's battery non replaceable?

Is it because it isn't rubbish like ipod batteries?

Why yes it is!



 Written by: cole

, apple (and the third party manufacturers that support their products) are way ahead of the game when it comes to battery replacement in mp3 players smile



this may well be because they have such a large market share and as such have been pressured to improve their service



ummm no. it's because their batteries are rubbish.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:so creative have reinvented the li-ion battery so that it doesn't run out...?



nicely done umm



your battery may be replacable but other (more recent) creative products don't have this option whereas the apple offer applies to all models. shrug







sym - was pointing out that the cheapest option if your ipod battery runs out is to buy a replacement battery for an ipod from a 3rd party manufacturer, with full install instrcutions, and replace it yourself for 30, whereas that is not even an option with most of the other players on the market...



but yeah, for 40 you also get an upgrade to the latest ipod (although it might be used or a refurb) smile





cole. x

EDITED_BY: coleman (1147436934)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:and about the creative tech support site:

i never used it. i used the tech support number supplied on a bit of card in the box.

they were most helpful and lovely, and said i was still under warranty even though it was a competition prize that i'd then bought second hand.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

Pen Draven
Pen Draven

Unofficial Lord Of Confusion And Pirate Extrodinaire
Location: Nuneaton
Member Since: 1st Sep 2005
Total posts: 1363
Posted:hehe this zen vs ipod lark could end up being worse than the marmite nutella debacle smile

Ze battle lines are drawn smile


Some men see things and say why....

I Dream of things that never were and say Why Not....?

Oh No I'm going to get Shot Alive if he finds out - DA wink

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:simian, I think the Touch is the one that Dunc has. As I sad, they made me select one, and I didn't know what one to select. I picked one that I have seen before.

What this come down to is that Creative and Apple are about the same price, and the batteries are the same (read polarity post on the chat thread). The only difference is the support.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:In this instance?

shrug


Delete

Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:Well, the point of my research was to dispell the myth that iPods batteries were irreplaceable and cost a lot. When you look at Creative, they are about the same price. There are always going to be 3rd party ways to get it at a lower price.

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

Delete

simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:"about the same price" ubblol very exact...

Do you always make so many omissions and misrepresentations in your "research"? tongue


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:I mean that for the iPod in my research it was cheaper, but you said it cost you less for your player. I will be happy to look at all the creative products and find out the cost of a new battery and then do the same with the iPods (although I think you pay the same price for all iPods).

I would be missing data telling me how long each one lasted though, and it's clear that per user data isn't good enough (looking at the good and bad posts on this thread alone).

I think that the price would avrage out so as to make the difference irrelevant when thinking about what player to buy, or when arguing for one or the other.

As I've said before, I don't think $65.95 is a bad price to pay for a battery and a new iPod, and I also don't think the 95.18 from creative is bad either. The price difference (although more in this case) isn't enough to make me dislike either product. (although I don't think the $ is converted down at the exchange rate: I think you'll end up paying 65 for the iPod in the UK)


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:tee hee, how did this turn into creative vrs ipod? ubbangel

Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: simian


replacement batteries for my zen cost 20




http://www.ipodstop.co.uk/ipod-battery-products.htm
br>
third party prices are the same.

its been made blindingly obvious that apple's replacement service beats creative's.


monkey and dunc blindly supporting a product with no evidence to support their wild claims of superiority?

oh how the tables have turned... wink


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:ubblol oh no....

I'm really going this time...


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

Delete

Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted: Written by: coleman



 Written by: simian



monkey and dunc blindly supporting a product with no evidence to support their wild claims of superiority?



oh how the tables have turned... wink







cole. x





bwahahahaha ubblol



ubbangel



my haven't they.



But I haven't supported them, merely defended them a little against the bigger boys in the school yard. I still think flash is still the best for portable music, if only they could get reliable cheap flash up to 60gig eh!!


Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

Pen Draven
Pen Draven

Unofficial Lord Of Confusion And Pirate Extrodinaire
Location: Nuneaton
Member Since: 1st Sep 2005
Total posts: 1363
Posted:errr geek mode on (yeah coz its been off up til now lol) but i read about a 40 gig flash raid made of loads of 4 gig cards that samsung or someone had made a while back shame the damn thing was nigh on 2 grand,, getting there though although I'm sure i read somewhere that the problem with flash was that you could only read/write to it around 300,000 times before it starts to massively degrade,, but i could be misquoting on that so don't flame me yet wink

Some men see things and say why....

I Dream of things that never were and say Why Not....?

Oh No I'm going to get Shot Alive if he finds out - DA wink

Delete

Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:Holographic memory might be great for the next gen storage...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_memory


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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