Forums > Social Chat > i'm not a juggler, but this looked damn impressive to me

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pounceSILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA


Posted:
chris bliss....any of your jugglers out there heard of him before? i'm not a juggler whatsoever, so i could be stupidly impressed. but i dunno, this looked really cool to me.

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SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
So, hang about - other jugglers are pissed because people who arn't jugglers have seen then and think he's the best? But he's not the best he's just really good, and they want peple to think they are the best?

erm....

If that is the case they should

1) grow up FFS
2) record something censored hot show it to people
3) understand that you need to be good at performing, not maths to be a juggler that people will want to watch. Who cares if you're doing blindmans multiplex jig with 5 balls or whatever? Jugglers? Yes. Real people? Nope smile
4) No one cares about juggling unless they see something that is really cool and looks great. This is the same with more or less anything in the world. Do I get pissed off because I think my code is nicer than that guy who just got hired by Apple? Hell yes! Do I think anyone else gives a damn? Nope!

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
ubblol and that is why i love you Sym!!!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
easy now! hug

 Written by: Sym


So, hang about - other jugglers are pissed because people who arn't jugglers have seen then and think he's the best? But he's not the best he's just really good, and they want peple to think they are the best?



no, that is the other end of the stick - you want this one:

envy is not why other jugglers have beef with the video.

its the fact that people think he is an amazing juggler when he certainly is not - how did you come to the conclusion that he was 'really good'?

granted, that routine is nice, especially if you have not seen much juggling, but the coverage and praise it has recveived is grossly disproportionate to the quality of the act.

that routine, to me, is fairly mediocre and formulaic.
it is, as should be expected since he has been performing it for donkey's years, very solid and is pretty well sync-ed to a piece of popular music.

but that's all that's good about it.

afaik it is the only routine he performs, his posture is horrible throughout, his head constantly bobs about like that churchill dog, there is absolutely no connection to the music artistically, there is very little variation in the trick selection, its not very original...


when people make statements like "it is the best juggling i have ever seen" it makes jugglers sad because there is far better juggling to witness.
yet no-one who has seen the bliss video cares since they have already decided what 'good juggling' is from watching the one video that fell into their email box of a short routine filled with simple, fast 3b moves shrug


all we're saying is, if you think bliss is the best juggler ever, it is simply due to the fact that you haven't ever actually seen high quality three ball juggling.


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


LemonkeyStalking amidst the desert, carrying an oversized scalpel...
1,019 posts
Location: Huddersfield + Hull Uni... UK.


Posted:
 Written by: coleman

or how about kris kremo from over 30 years ago?
cole. x



Holy crap, I've not seen that Kris Kremo performance before - bloody hell it's good, especially those insane pirouettes with the cigar boxes! Only one error (I think may have been deliberate too...).

He dropped several times though. wink

Willy - is bad for your health...


Loki_the_tricksterSILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA


Posted:
rolleyes ditto Cole has hit the nail on the head
I've been juggling for years and it is sad that most people dont know what real quality juggling is and that they admire rubbish. The reference to 3beat is right on, anyone who doesnt poi would be impressed with a real fast 3 beat done to music but alas we'd all think its rubbish and thats Jason Garfields point!!!!
I must say that Garfield IS a quality juggler and the diss bliss video is great ......not a stolen rutine as MattyB stated but exactly what the title implies A DISS!!!!! and a good one at that!!!!!! I think my favorite thing about it is not only did Garfield do the whole routine and do it better but he also mouthed the lyrics at the exact same points that bliss did ( I also dont feel bliss deserves to be capitalized) now thats dedication to a smackdown ubblol
I'll stop now but not before saying that Jason Garfield is a juggling god!!!!!!

My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: coleman


how did you come to the conclusion that he was 'really good'?



I think it is really good. It is solid and clean (maybe because it's old), it goes well with the music and the people liked it. There is no reason for me to learn a lot about an art before I can say if it's good or not - the mark of a good act is entertainment and I was entertained.

I'm saying that after going to 5 juggling related events last year - and running 1 of them. I'm not in to juggling as much as I am in to poi, or other arts, but I think I have seen more juggling that most people. That tells me that there is an image problem with jugglers. There might be good videos out there, but I haven't seen anything that good before. Why is this?

The idea that you should have a go at someone because you don't like what they are doing just doesn't work in the arts. This guy is making money from doing something that he is good at and he's getting juggling 'out there' and making people think it's cool. If other people want to show how good they are, why don't they do it? They should stop bitching and start actually doing something.

Do you really think that I'm impressed if someone writes

"chris bliss's juggling skill is...not good."?

or

"He didn't do any 360s, he didn't do any ass catches"

My first though isn't "wow, you must be a really good juggler", it's "you're a bitchy old grump who needs to get out more". It's a show! That’s all! If you don't like it, WHO CARES!?!!?

What about

"it's fine if people are entertained by this. But they should not assume he is a good juggler"

WTF? I think you are good if people are entertained! What else is good? Loads of tech?

"he did the very FIRST thing you learn when learning how to juggle and he got applause you'd expect to hear for 5 club backcrosses."

This to me makes him great, just like a spinner with loads of style.


"Now I could easily make up my own 5 ball routine and choreograph it to this music"

So it's good if you use 5 balls?


I really have no time for this Jason Garfield now - good juggler or not.

Sorry for the rant - but I don't see the point in any of it. It's far too petty

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
again, i say that the problem is not that the act is crap, nor the general phenomenon that bliss' act is liked by laypeople, its simply that:



the coverage and praise this video has recveived for the standard of juggling in it is grossly disproportionate to the quality of said juggling.



 Written by: sym

There is no reason for me to learn a lot about an art before I can say if it's good or not - the mark of a good act is entertainment and I was entertained.





that's true, but only to an extent.



you didn't just say it was 'good entertainment', you said it was 'amazing juggling' - those two things are very, very different.



to proclaim the performance of a skill as amazing within its field *does* require knowledge of the field, otherwise there would be nothing stopping you or me from applying for judging positions at the next olympic games or from being fine art critics wink





on a more specific note, i would strongly disagree that the juggling 'goes well with the music' - the only connection to the music is that the throws are in time.

that's cool and everything but there are many, many more ways to artistically link the act with the music.



proclaiming that it is 'amazing juggling' is, i feel, slightly insulting to those acts that do contain amazing juggling.



if, after watching acts with high quality juggling in, you say you are more entertained by bliss' routine, that's fine, but herelding this as a good juggling video with no point of reference is never going to fly imho.





 Written by: sym

If other people want to show how good they are, why don't they do it? They should stop bitching and start actually doing something.





aye, there's the rub - there *are* loads of better juggling videos available to download, but you haven't bothered to look at them because you didn't get a chain spam email giving you a link to them.





i get the impression that you are reacting more to garfield's statements than you are to mine?

i don't believe i said most of those things you quoted in your last post...



if you think garfield has been rude about bliss, you should have heard what he said about anthony gatto (the most highly technically skilled juggler alive) last year eek ubblol



take his words with a pinch of salt - everyone else does (except pre wink ).





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
Yes, you're right, maybe calling it amazing does a disservice to other jugglers. I maintain that it is good, if only because I liked it.

The title of this thread sort of sums it up for me: "I'm not a juggler, but this looked damn impressive to me". Why is it that this video is getting passed on any not others? You say:

"aye, there's the rub - there *are* loads of better juggling videos available to download, but you haven't bothered to look at them because you didn't get a chain spam email giving you a link to them. "

Well why not? What makes this video something that people pass about? I think it's because it's got style and no drops and thats what people like. Shouldn't jugglers learn from that?

I've just watched that diss video, and I think it's very dull indeed. It's not the same thing with 5 balls at all, it's very good juggling without the style. Sure, he's skilled, but it's boring to watch.

I'm not having a go at you at all, or, in fact, jugglers as a whole. After seeing the stefan vid you posted, I am even more confused. He is someone with a lot of style as well as tech. Why, if there are these people out there have I not heard about them? Why is the juggling community seen as geeks and not like BMXers? If I tell someone I'm a juggler they give me odd looks (I'm talking about 'normal' people), why don't they think i'm extra cool? (don't answer that...!)

Anyway, hug I'm going to calm down now. I really do think it's stupid though.

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Sym


"aye, there's the rub - there *are* loads of better juggling videos available to download, but you haven't bothered to look at them because you didn't get a chain spam email giving you a link to them. "

Well why not? What makes this video something that people pass about? I think it's because it's got style and no drops and thats what people like. Shouldn't jugglers learn from that?



the question is, how do videos end up 'doing the rounds'?

its a strange phenomenon - what really decides which ones end up dropping into my email box and how does it begin?

that video has been around for a while so why did it only become massively popular in the last month or so?

the internet and the people that use it generally confuse me... wink


 Written by:

After seeing the stefan vid you posted, I am even more confused. He is someone with a lot of style as well as tech. Why, if there are these people out there have I not heard about them?



yeah, he rocks doesn't he ubblove

that is exactly the question is that the internet juggling community has been asking and the fact that we don't have an answer is probably why we seem so uptight about it!


as for garfield, i totally agree that his video is much less styled out and that generally, he comes off as a big dick hug


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


MikeIconGOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA


Posted:
Thanks for those vids, Cole. Some good additions to my collection.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


Tao StarPooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol


Posted:
hmmmm....i can see where you're all coming from. while i think it was a wicked video & very entertaining, i don't think the argument is about other people learning from it...

if you want to do stuff to entertain other people, wicked, and that's what i liked about it.

personally i never do poi in front of other people any more and don't really give a s***t what they think about it, i just do what challenges me and what feels nice.... so i guess it works both ways smile

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
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JauntyJamesSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA


Posted:
It really bothers me when people rag on tallented works or people just because the general public gives them more credit than they deserve. Just because the public doesn't have taste, doesn't mean that it's okay to put down those in their misguided spotlight. This guy obviously worked very hard on his routine, and did it very well. The audience is not equiped with the ability to apreciate technical juggling, they respond to his choreography, which is very well done. It's just a fluke that he's become unreasonably popular, and is probably not his fault. These things happen.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: sparkey



they respond to his choreography





did he move his feet then?



i must have missed that.



fair enough point though - i'm not intentionally putting down chris bliss - his routine is pretty good and his performance of it is superb.



but i'll be damned if i stand by while people proclaim him the greatest juggler ever.



shrug





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Colin Jsmall member
116 posts
Location: Hastings


Posted:
I think we have learned(for the umpteen time) that being a good juggler and being a good entertainer are not the same thing.



Good juggling can be entertaining. Good entertainment doesn't always come with good juggling.



Its a bit like this:

With some people, wisdom comes with age; with others, age comes alone.
EDITED_BY: Colin J (1142887373)

Suibomaddict
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA


Posted:
I've kinda just been watching this thread, it's rather interesting. I understand where most everyone is comin from, but this pretty much sums up the entirety of it all in one very nice package:
 Written by:

fair enough point though - i'm intentionally putting down chris bliss - his routine is pretty good and his performance of it is superb.

but i'll be damned if i stand by while people proclaim him the greatest juggler ever.



Good words, Cole.. you win smile.

Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"


DuncGOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Cole

granted, that routine is nice, especially if you have not seen much juggling, but the coverage and praise it has recveived is grossly disproportionate to the quality of the act.





Wow, I can't watch it cuz I'm at work but it sounds remarkebly like the juggling version of an ipod to me wink tongue

*runs away*

Let's relight this forum ubblove


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
spank

Oi!

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


DominoSILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK


Posted:
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4648486036015499267&q=iflea

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Loki_the_tricksterSILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA


Posted:
clap ubblol That was brilliant Domino ubblol clap
that put a big smile on my face this morning biggrin flea and tic control ubblol I cant stop laughing thanks for that

My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Dunc


 Written by: Cole

granted, that routine is nice, especially if you have not seen much juggling, but the coverage and praise it has recveived is grossly disproportionate to the quality of the act.





Wow, I can't watch it cuz I'm at work but it sounds remarkebly like the juggling version of an ipod to me wink tongue

*runs away*



eek

i hadn't noticed that - that's really scary...

maybe i do this all the time - come up with just one good argument and then go off and apply it to as many discussions as i possibly can wink


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
It's a point I made to Dunc in the car the other night - my like of the iPod is the same as my like of this video...

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
that confuses me sym - how does that comparison work?

- ipods are unoriginal, generic and formulaic but they are well-executed and thus highly entertaining?

- chris bliss is an original, well designed piece of technology that revolutionised a market and is the most popular product within his field?

neither of those seem to make any sense? confused

then again, nor does my own comparison:

my dislike of this video is similar to my dislike of ginger and is the diametric opposite of my like for the tv series lost, although slightly less vigourous.

wink


seriously, i'm certain you don't mean "i like ipods and chris bliss because they are among the few i have knowledge of".

as far as i can see, your like of this video is quite different to your like of ipods since you have had an mp3 player since the first one was released and thus have a very wide understanding of the products available in that market, yet you are not so well versed when it comes to what you have seen of professional juggling performances.

can you expand at all or will it only make sense when in the confines of the dunc-mobile?

if that's the case, i'm happy to wait wink


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
Hehehe, sorry!

My point was that I think both have merit because they are more about style than features (or tech skill for Chris).

There may be better mp3 players || jugglers but I think the mark of ‘good’ or ‘best’ should go to the style rather than the skill || spec

It’s not 100% correct, because I wouldn’t like an MP3 player that looked great but had a battery life of 5 minutes. But I think they are moth examples of style and tech where a mark of ‘good’ can at most be subjective.

Does that clear it up a bit?

hug

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


DuncGOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom


Posted:
here are some other fine moth examples ubbangel


Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link


I particularly like the last one

Let's relight this forum ubblove


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
cheers sym - i get ya now smile

my favourite moth is this one:


Non-Https Image Link



cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Mr ChutneySILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK


Posted:
offtopic

:SHUDDER: I hate moths... the freak me out. Seriously.

DuncGOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom


Posted:
Whatever you do Chut don't think about them climbing all over your face and and going in your ears and up your nose. And definately don't think about being in a locked room with about 100 of them all fluttering around your head! ubbangel

Let's relight this forum ubblove


Loki_the_tricksterSILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA


Posted:
 Written by: Dunc


here are some other fine moth examples ubbangel



ubblol rolleyes ubblol took me a second to figure out where the heck that came from ..... to funny Dunc to funny ubblol

My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....


linden rathenGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3577405531442798681&q=ipod+parody
on a similar vein of silly videos smile

back


Gayle......!SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,444 posts
Location: Bristol !!!!!!, United Kingdom


Posted:
I thought the video was good to the extent of trying to time the throws to the music, but it just looked so messy. No point scoring with me.

Gayle.....!


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