Forums > Social Discussion > Chef Resigns from South Park over "Religion"

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060313/ap_en_tv/people_isaac_hayes
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Written by:

NEW YORK -
Isaac Hayes has quit "South Park," where he voices Chef, saying he can no longer stomach its take on religion.
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Hayes, who has played the ladies' man/school cook in the animated Comedy Central satire since 1997, said in a statement Monday that he feels a line has been crossed.

"There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends and intolerance and bigotry towards religious beliefs of others begins," the 63-year-old soul singer and outspoken Scientologist said.

"Religious beliefs are sacred to people, and at all times should be respected and honored," he continued. "As a civil rights activist of the past 40 years, I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices."

"South Park" co-creator Matt Stone responded sharply in an interview with The Associated Press Monday, saying, "This is 100 percent having to do with his faith of Scientology... He has no problem and he's cashed plenty of checks with our show making fun of Christians."

Last November, "South Park" targeted the Church of Scientology and its celebrity followers, including actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, in a top-rated episode called "Trapped in the Closet." In the episode, Stan, one of the show's four mischievous fourth graders, is hailed as a reluctant savior by Scientology leaders, while a cartoon Cruise locks himself in a closet and won't come out.

Stone told The AP he and co-creator Trey Parker "never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we did Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begin."



I don't know whether many people on here watch South Park, but I consider this to be big news. I think this story will be more important to the American Youth than the resignation of some political charactor such as the Vice President. At least they still have Cartman smile.

I was going to put this in chat or on the "in the News" thread, but it seemed to embody issues that could spark discussion. When I read it, I was reminded of the discussion that we had regarding the cartoons about Islam.

I have not seen the Scientology episode, but I have seen several of the shows that were about Christianity or Judaism. One would be hard pressed to find a more offensive treatment of those religions on TV, except perhaps from a few stand up comedians. I tend to agree with the co-creators that the resignation may have had more to do with it being Scientology that was mocked, rather than religion in general.

I wonder how they will handle this. Maybe they will dispose of the old Chef in some funny way, and have a new replacement Chef. I don't think any replacement could pull off playing Chef. Isaac Hayes' voice seems to me to be irreplaceable.


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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:yeah, what a great way of say....who cares?!?!

his problem man....no one elses!


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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:Jeff, even if, as that guy claimed, he was beaten up by fundamentalist X-tians, we can prove by thier actions that they actually aren't fundamentalist.

If a scientologist sues you, we can say that he is a good, observant, fundamentalist scientologist who is following the core values of his religion. If a fundamentalist X-tian fails to turn the other cheek, we can say that they are violating the values of their religion, and thus aren't truly fundmanetalist.

The dude in the link described his actions as a "nice slap" in the "big fat face" of fundamentalists. Obviously, all of the true fundamentalists turned their fat faces in preperation for another slap.


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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Any fundementalist Christian who does something violent thus can't be a fundementalist Christian...

What a great cop out. rolleyes


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

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Posted:'Mirecki recently wrote online that he planned to teach intelligent design as mythology in an upcoming course. '


ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol


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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted: Written by: jeff(fake)



Any fundementalist Christian who does something violent thus can't be a fundementalist Christian...



What a great cop out. rolleyes





I would say, rather, that any pacifist who does something violent thus can't be a pacifist...



Any fundamentalist Christian who violates a fundamental Christian tenet (such as "turning the other cheek") is by definition not a fundamentalist.



It's not a copout, it's a handy tip on who the easiest target is for cartoon mockery. If you want to slap someone and get away with it, slap a fundamentalist Christian, not a Muslim or a Scientologist.


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:That's true; but just because someone doesn't act in a Christian manner doesn't mean that they themselves aren't inspired by that set of beliefs. There have been plenty of people through history who have done terrible violence and evil because of genuine Christian belief - they may have got it wrong, but that's what they thought.

Not picking on Christianity here BTW; the same is true of pretty much every belief or ideology throughout history, *sigh* But just because someone's beliefs are flawed, the root cause of those beliefs is still, well, belief.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

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Posted:What right do you have, Patriarch, to judge who is Christian and who is not? "Judge not, lest thou be judged" etc etc etc. You can justify more or less anything (Including genocide, murder and slavery) with the Bible. What makes you such a better Christian than anyone who instead of rolling with the blow decides to get even? A la "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth"?

Black/White/Black/White. Reality is missing.


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Patriarch, Islam doesn't tell you to go and blow up the world trade centre either, yet the people who do are referred to as fundamentalists.

And Jeff, think of doctors who do abortions being attacked... luckily Christian violence is getting less, but it still exists.


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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

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Posted: Written by: Sethis


What right do you have, Patriarch, to judge who is Christian and who is not? "Judge not, lest thou be judged" etc etc etc. You can justify more or less anything (Including genocide, murder and slavery) with the Bible. What makes you such a better Christian than anyone who instead of rolling with the blow decides to get even? A la "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth"?

Black/White/Black/White. Reality is missing.





woah there!!!! i don't think patriarch was judging anybody.....i think it was more a matter of logic (which, i agree with btw) but yeah, as the bible contradicts itself on this point, you're right, it's hard to say.

it just goes to show that it's all a bit silly....you can't follow the bible's guidance without making a personal judgement about which bit to follow, so the fundamentalist line of following the bible word for word is flawed anyway smile


I had a dream that my friend had a
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it was the book of my dreams.

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted: Written by: Sethis


What right do you have, Patriarch, to judge who is Christian and who is not? "



You are mistaken. I offered no opinion as to who was Christian or not. I merely said that anyone who does not follow a fundamental cannot be a fundamentalist... no matter what their religion is.

An Atheist who believes in God could hardly be called a fundmentalist Atheist. So also with a Muslim who eats pork, a Humanist who doesn't believe in evolution, or an Orthodox Jew who works on Saturday.

However, a Scientologist who responds to a slap with a lawsuit is, as far as I can tell, not violating a fundamental tenet of Scientology.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted: Written by: Birgit


And Jeff, think of doctors who do abortions being attacked... luckily Christian violence is getting less, but it still exists.


My girlfriends uncle was shot and killed a few years ago by a fundamentalist christian for working as a doctor in an abortion clinic.

Anyone stateside will probably remember it.

To say that violence in the name of christianity is against the fundamentals shows a complete lack of understanding of religion as a whole. Christianity is full of violence, both physical and metaphorical.

From your posts partiarch you seem incredibly blinkered by your rose tinted view of people who share your faith.


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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

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Posted:It's the classic 'No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge' fallacy.

By Patriarch's logic there are no fundemenatlist Christians at all, since everyone will have violated one of the rules at some point.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:And by any other logic, one can be called a fundamentalist even if they do not hold to the fundamentals of their religion.



Show me an atheist who believes in God, and I will show you someone who is not a fundamentalist in regards to that fundamental. Show me a X-tian who does not turn the other cheek when slapped, and I will show you someone who is not a fundamentalist in regards to that fundamental.



If you are really scared that a fundmentalist X-tian will fight back when you slap them, then it is not their fundamentalism that you fear. You are instead worried that they will violate that particular fundamental and fail to turn the other cheek. You are worried that they will turn out not to really be a fundamentalist.


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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

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Posted:Thus there are no 'true fundementalists' as at some stage they (including Patriarch) will have violated some rule or other of Christianity.

Crop rotation and mixed fibre country again.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:Indeed. It is impossible to find anyone who has lived perfectly.

Rom 3:10 as it is written: "There is none righteous, no not one

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

Thus, it is valid to fear that a X-tian might disobey the commandment to turn the other cheek. However, I still think they are easier targets for mockery than scientologists. In addition to commanding his followers to turn the other cheek, the Messiah also told them:

Mat 5:11-12 "Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for your reward in Heaven is great."

and

Mat 5:44 "But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you"

As you can see, people who take this sort of stuff seriously make good targets for South Park. Thus, the episode on Scientology has been pulled out of circulation, while the ones mocking X-tians remain.


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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:I hasn't been pulled out of circulation everywhere, just on a few networks.

In fact it's up on the internet for all to see.

Fear of repriasal isn't keeping me from mocking the stupidity that is Scientology, or the bigotry in Islam. I also mock New Age beliefs, alternative medicine and pseudointellectualist movments like Post-Modernism. I pick my targets on merit, not on saftey. wink


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:*off topic*
"In fact it's up on the internet for all to see."

Linky linky linky please please please? biggrin


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: ]

However, a Scientologist who responds to a slap with a lawsuit is, as far as I can tell, not violating a fundamental tenet of Scientology.[/quote





Given the number of lawsuits that the Church of $cientology throws at people, I would almost argue that the lawsuit is a sacrament.

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:I just finished watching the South Park episode on Scientology. It reminded me of the Buddha Boy.

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:There are contradictions galore in the fundamentals of christianity. By sticking to one you break another. So how can anyone be a fundamentalist christian?

Turning the other cheek is not a fundamental part of what most people view as 'christianity' anyway. How are promoters of ID, pro-life groups, street preachers (I could go on but it hardly seems worth it) in any way 'turning the other cheek?

If they were to act by what you see as a 'fundamental of christianity' they would let everybody get on with their lives the way they see fit.


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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted: Written by: Seye


There are contradictions galore in the fundamentals of christianity. By sticking to one you break another. So how can anyone be a fundamentalist christian?

Turning the other cheek is not a fundamental part of what most people view as 'christianity' anyway. How are promoters of ID, pro-life groups, street preachers (I could go on but it hardly seems worth it) in any way 'turning the other cheek?

If they were to act by what you see as a 'fundamental of christianity' they would let everybody get on with their lives the way they see fit.



Hmmmm. No, I think to live up to this fundamental of christianity they would have to be slapped, and then turn the other cheek. That is the literal command with no context. The context, of course, is tort claims. One can easily stretch the commandment to mean that one should not sue people who slap you. One can also take the "slap" to represent a generic insult, and conclude that one should not sue people who insult you. This seems to be a reasonable conclusion from the context.

To stretch "turn the other cheek" to mean "do not promote ID, join a pro-life group, or preach on the street" seems to me to be quite a leap. Neither the hyperliteral reading of the passage nor the context suggests that this was what was meant.

However, given the context of that particular passage, and a few other scriptures in the Bible, it seems reasonable to conclude that the Messiah was suggesting to his followers that they should not sue the creators of South Park for insulting them.


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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

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Location: Brisbane, Australia

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Posted: Written by: Patriarch917


If you want to slap someone and get away with it, slap a fundamentalist Christian, not a Muslim or a Scientologist.



ubblol i think thats some words of wisdom ill remember for my entire life


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:by the way... south park games, including make your own character. very cute smile



EDIT: Did I never put a link there, or did it get deleted?!?

EDITED_BY: Birgit (1143019352)


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Domino
SILVER Member since May 2004

UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
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Posted:Yes indeed


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Don't know if its right or not, but interesting nonetheless..

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188463,00.html


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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
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Posted:It's on Fox News. It must be true wink

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Tao Star


Tao Star

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Location: Bristol

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Posted:ha ha, i made a goth!


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I had a dream that my friend had a
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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted: Written by: jeff(fake)


It's on Fox News. It must be true wink



Of course! They get all the lowdown stories that noone else is good enough to *cough*make up*cough*.. er.. write.


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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Chef is to be killed off!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4836286.stm
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So much for Fox!


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Oh my sweet jeebuz, did you guys catch that episode? Work of art I tell ya...

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