Forums > Social Chat > the american FIRE community

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
Traveling Kyri
member

Member Since: 6th Dec 2002
Total posts: 28
Posted:Warning: angsty side of kyri

The American "spinning" community seems to be really overly focused on fire. Not just as individuals may or may not be, but particuarly gatherings, both that i've attended and that i've heard about. This is less true of gatherings taht arn't just one evening, but usually even those have their time where everything is focused on the burn.

This wouldn't be such a problem if it wern't for the attitudes i find. I personally tend to get a lot of pressure from people if i'm not lighting up, and i've seen other people get it too. A lot of the time people get condescending tworads me if i'm not burning- and i've seen people get made fun of for not lighting up, and although that was among friends, it was actually serious.

Even among local santa cruz people, it tends to be about "want to get together to burn." not "practice" or "exchange tricks/ideas" just "burn."

To give the community credit, they generally seem welcome and eager to teach. But god forbid you know a few tricks and don't feel like lighting up. Fire is not the all to end all of spinning- at least not for me.

It may be to some people. It may be that they can't imagine teh community w/o fire, that fire is where they start and stop. Having fun with fire might be where it's at, performing with fire, showing off with fire, playing with fire. Good for them.

But me? I want to be a spinner/twirler/staffer/poier. A whatever. An "object manipulator." Is it still ok for me to come hang out with you guys? Do i still get a place in your parties? Because more and more I feel like I don't.

Dom's visit gave me a lot of hope - but then i realized he's not american. So, dom's visit gave me a lot of hope for my trip to england this year Still, it was nice to be around someone who's spinning didn't stop and start with fire, and who certainly wasn't the least bit judgemental that I didn't light up- and also someone who didn't see lighting up as showing off or performing.

So, anyway, I just kind of want some feedback from people I guess. Not just americans as to whether or not there's a place for a less pyro-active spinner in your lives, but as to the internationals- what is it like there? what's ur thoughts?

btw- i lost this twice, so i hope it goes through this time!

peace & love, kyri


Situations defined as real are real in their consequences.

Delete Topic

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Nyx, believe it or not, I wasn't referring to any one given night. I've had a few expeiences like that. It was worse, as Cassandra and Raph will attest to, in Paris.

The Boston Crowd definitely had a nice vibe. Besides, I have to stop spinning to watch Nomad spin... it's the only way that I learn anything.

Even when I'm just practicing with a friend I like to sit back and watch... or at least watch out of the corner of my eye.

And much love to Mr. Mohawk indeed. My favorite Mohawk moments are when he's patiently trying to teach all the drunk girls at the club how to spin... the boy's got the patience of a saint.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

poiaholic22
member

Member Since: 22nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 531
Posted:Hey NYC you gonna be in town tomorrow night?

Delete

poiaholic22
member

Member Since: 22nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 531
Posted:NYC? NYC are you there?

OH GODDAMMIT!
*stamps away in frustration*


Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Naaa dude, I need a weekend in my own state for a change.

And the moderators are gonna get pissy with us if we chat on a thread too much so PM me if anything else is up... since we both seem to be awake at ungodly hours... (though I'm off to bed now.)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Maximus
member
Location: Upland, CA., USA
Member Since: 13th Dec 2001
Total posts: 250
Posted:Yes, dulce, the incident occurred during my recent trip to Oceanside. You weren't there, but Kyrian was, and it seems to have been as uncomfortable for her as it was for me.

Mind you, I am as competitive as hell. The Los Angeles scene is full of prima donnas and when we get together there are all kinds of politics going on. I rather enjoy it, actually.

I think my firedancing improved because of my competitiveness. For a while there I was the only one doing advanced martial arts moves converted to fire. And then whip chain master Marco starts showing up. And then wu shu girl Anna. And then in my own backyard, Danny of Saturnalia.
The presence of serious competition inspired me to be more serious and to improve as a fire performer.

Nonetheless, this is not a competition.

If any good is to come of this soul-seaching and finger-pointing, I would suggest that this be added to the firedancer's code of ethics:

"It is okay to not light up."

Maximus


Delete

dulce flames
member
Location: Oceanside, California USA
Member Since: 8th Mar 2002
Total posts: 234
Posted:I don't know Maximus.. I think you must be scared of fire if you didn't light up... Just Kidding!! I think competition is good if it's healthy.. I consider myself competitive in just about everything I do.. Meaning I always want to be better and when I see people who are better than me,at anything I attempt to do, I want to learn from them... Sometimes, someone doesn't feel like lighting up. You've definately gotta have the desire if you're going to do it, or why do it (unless you're at a gig getting paid and hopefully in that case you can psyche yourself up).. However, safety is important and I wish that it was more of a consideration at most of the gatherings I have been to. I've got bad vibes from people when I comment on the safety situation, but it won't make me stop taking my own safety measures and trying to share some of them. On the other hand, as Dom had mentioned before, and now that my lovely neighbor has moved away, the only time I'm really playing with my poi is when I'm by myself and have my practice poi around. I really enjoy meeting up and just having fun and sharing moves, with or without fire.. I've met tons of really cool people who are all about sharing here too, so I'm not saying it's all bad.. when people have made comments as to why I'm not lighting up in the past, I've just said I didn't feel like it at the time.. Had I been called a wuss, I think I would've had to talk some trash...

Hope to see some of you soon.. Meanwhile, enjoy yourselves!


Delete

FireMikeZ
FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US
Member Since: 24th Jul 2002
Total posts: 1438
Posted:ah, from the guilty to the innocent. in the clarity of FireMike1 (good) & FireMike2 (evil) now both declared dead & merely fighting back from the grave, my deep apologies for much of the lot of them, but no justifications now. for a good while, i'm likely to be unsure of my own positions on many things.

what i've vividly been taught this past month is how intensity itself is not so much a distinct medium as a range on the scale reached by many different passions of many different flavors, each with its own values, insights, brilliance, daring, humor, potential conflicts, weaknesses, & blindness.

which bridges to the major thrust opened up by this thread. Kyri began it complaining of fire being an excessive focus within a spectrum of spinners who might be a distinctive American community: a spinner's community. subset = fire spinners.

may i suggest instead that fire is not only a subset of spinners. in fact, the thrust which this thread opens up is a huge intersection of two separate major communities:

a spinning/ juggling/ art & performance toy & move communitya fire art & performance toy & move/ pyrotechnics/ pyroartist (nontoy)/ pyrospiritualist/ pyrophile communityso their intersection is fire art & performance toys & moves. in that intersection are arts which don't literally involve "spinning" movements at all (breathing, eating, acrobatics, many fire toy moves).
but people come to fire from way outside the spinning community, and many love fire for many reasons. some don't intersect with the moves, some don't intersect with the perspectives or emphases of many non-fire spinners. many dancers, for example, entranced with flame, even fire-jumpers (groundflame, hoop, etc.), fire-walkers & many fire-fighters. architects, mechanics (like SEEMEN), poets & storytellers, musicians, videographers, visual artists, body-branders, gregarious friends around campfires, bonfire revelers (from Norse weddings to Burning Man & now SoCal's Burning Woman), magicians, ceremonialists, mystics, healers, scientists full of curiosity or wonder. it's not spinning which calls them. it's fire.
or. . . cooks, curers of craft media (viz. ceramics, especially raku; rawhide sculptors; glass-blowers). for whom it may not even be fire, it's something else fire creates besides manipulation of flame on a wick.

fire is sacred to arashi. it has always been for me, sometimes with different meaning & inspiration, neglect of different aspects while entranced by its other dimensions. Nataraj is always in my worship, even when no open flame's nearby.

so much the more so for any who undergo solemn, ecstatic, or significant rites through or with fire. from mortal or divine communion & sanctification to trial and immolation, alive or after death. the positive value of any merely metaphorical, spiritual matter (metaphysical), or directly physical proximity, transaction, contact, ingestion, taking flame, burning or burnishing, or transformation through fire depends on the objective, subjective, and metaphysical experience of the being approaching the flame.

so wherever we can nurture a full-spectrum fire community, "spinners (hot & coldplay) & fire arts performers" are always likely to be the most prominent subset, dynamic in live gatherings, adored for special relation to fire in a dual performance-and-private-centered mode.

with them, surely coldplay spinners, of direct relation and fire potential, must be especially welcome. yet if we too-frequently include a stage play about girlfriends running a military site in World War II as the extended social circles of the Burning Man community do, by virtue of its dramaturge being a Burning Man member, though there's no fire in the play, there's dilution for the fire community if we don't point out there's no fire during the show. this is, however, entirely analogous to this very Social forum at Home of Poi, where by virtue of being Home of Poi family members, our community affirms our freedom to post blessedly on almost anything we want to share or discuss, as a full-life living space for HoP'ers. the social engineering concern is about the community in practice delivering enough of its core material to keep most community members interested in staying in the community. which, thank you now, helps me realize that eventually in SoCal we need simply label a clear communication area for non-fire concerns of a pyro community, to fill out our full-life potential embrace among some or all of us.

in America's social statistics, there's often an assumption among many that coldplayers are just working up to fire. here at HoP, AstroBoy, who may be Canadian, just posted about his first public performance; when someone assumed he lit up, he replied something like "I'm still a glowstick bitch." "still." aha.

Kyri, Pele, Maximus & others point out we have to safeguard the wishes of those who don't want to light up at any time, or may never wish to light up.

would be fascinating and useful to conduct a survey to find out the proportion of American coldplayers vs. coldplayers working toward fire vs. fireplayers.

what are y'all's educated guesses as to the proportions, thinking toward how to serve these constituencies, in America, where you live, or regions about which you have an overview sight?

& in these areas, how well have fire arts performers of our kind engaged in successful community with pyros of other kinds, to fill out the other side of the equation?

with equally bemused, great interest,

~ Mke


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

Delete

Page: 12