Page: 123
Mint Sauce
veteran
Location: Lancs England
Member Since: 7th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1453
Posted:UK id card confused



What is your opinion what do you have against them and why smile



I personally cant wait for them to become law. All this stuff about big brother is watching us. So What I dont care he can come watch me take a dump for all I care biggrin

If I'm not doing any thing wrong why should I be bothered smile



Civil liberties my bum what is the difference going to be we already get issued with a NI number at 16



And if it stops some snotty chav using my debit card to buy stuff with when he nicks my wallet or the thieving postie with my pin number.



a card that says I am me and nobody else sounds good to me.

Ok they need to work on the biometric info a bit more but hey it will come with time smile


before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:I don't have too many problems with them in general, but I really object to having to buy the damned things.

If the government want to make it mandatory to have one, they should at least give them to us.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Mandatory Cards: Over 100 cost. You can be arrested for not having one (under proposed legislation). I think that's immoral and possibly illegal. I don't want to be forced to expend 100 on something which I can already do with my passport.

The reasons for the cards: Terrorism and Identity Fraud are the two main ones.

Against terrorism, I'm not sure what they will do to help. I don't see how someone having to prove their name makes them any less likely to commit a terrorist act.

"Yeah, sure. I'm Joe Bloggs, lived in Fairfax all my life. That's who I am alright. I can prove it, check out this neat identity card. Have you seen this bomb in my bag?"

Identity Fraud mostly occurs when people are lazy or daft. People not shredding their documents or cards. People not reporting stolen cards the minute they notice them missing. People using predictable PIN numbers (The Independent ran a list of the 10 most common PIN numbers, and said "If this is your PIN then for the love of god, CHANGE it") and people writing their PIN on a piece of paper inside their wallet. Identity cards are unecessary if people just followed the little handbook they get when issued with a credit card.

Also, I'm worried about the possible security breaches. If the cards go ahead as planned (hopefully not) then there will have to be a central network that has a database of everyone who has one. This database would have to be accessible from everywhere you can use the cards, from the internet to the local garage. If a cracker breaks into there, then they will have the personal information on everyone in the country.

Your NI card is not the same. You don't use it to buy things in stores. You don't use it to top up your phone. You don't use it to buy thing online. All you ever really use it for is for job applications. The new ID cards are combination Passport and Credit Card.

Plus, there are people turning out fake passports and driving licenses every day. They can make realistic copies of existing forms of ID. Why then should ID cards be any safer? They can be faked. Anything can be faked. And you can do a lot more damage with a new ID card than you can with either a passport or credit card or driving license.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:I don't mind ID cards. I've had one since I was 15, and it cost me less than 10 quid.

In Germany it's law that you're always able to identify yourself, and I don't mind that. Some of the driving licences I've seen here have no picture and addresses 20 years out of date because you have to get a new licence in Wales and can't just have an official person put a new address sticker in, what's the point? And you can use them as a proof of ID for some things.

It would also help getting a better idea of who lives where. It took me a year to hear back from the electoral roll when I "applied" to be on it, and as far as I know they are the only place I'm officially registered with. Now I've met people who didn't register anywhere because of having debts and not wanting to be found, and it worked completely fine for them. Having a central registry and the obligation to have an id card might improve things a lot. Not sure if you get the registry thing with the cards, but back at home whenever you move you have to register for the new address.

I really don't get what people are "big brother"ing about again. As I said in the speed camera post, you have cctv everywhere already, and you're most likely on the electoral roll, registered with a bank and have tons of little chipcards with your name and photo in your wallet anyways.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:One thing mentioned with these is that your name, address, and all other details would be readable on the card.. As well as forging cards, there could very easily be an issue with forging the card readers- which could actually increase fraud in things like phone/internet sales.

I can see this just being an extra thing that would help harrass those who look 'suspicious' (you can read dressing funny, driving an old banger of a car, having dreads or whatever into that) while not actually helping solve anything, and as such, I would really resent having to pay for a card I know I'd regularly forget to carry with me, that I don't think would help anyway, and could result in me being arrested/fined for not having.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:How about a microchip implanted in the hand, that would serve as an ID and as digital cash. You don't have to make them mandatory, but just get rid of all other forms of currency. It would save the economy all the trouble of keeping track of checks and cash and different cards and such. It would make muggings impossible (have the chip go dead if the owner dies, thus preventing the "cutting off the hand trick"). It would decimate the drug trade by removing the ability to purchase things with untraceable cash. It would also help prevent identity theft, since no one can steal your card.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Patriarch, what a sterile world you envision.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Seye
Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK
Member Since: 27th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1261
Posted:ID cards are totally unnecessary.

Its a ridiculous debate really. There is no way they can reduce fraud - In fact they are likely to cause a massive increase because as soon as someone works out how to clone them they have your passport, national insurance details, NHS number, driving licence AND biometric details.

I'm still in favour of old fashioned metal and paper money as well as paper documents.


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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:I like being able to defend myself by carrying my spare change in a sock and swinging it at someone's head wink ubblol

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Written by: Doc Lightning






Patriarch, what a sterile world you envision.





Gatica, mmm very stylish and post modern. (post modern is that the right word?)



Go ID cards, hmm yes its 100 quid but hell its a one off payment and whats the point in money if you dont spend it? I would rather pay for it than have it free anyway, if there handed out free they will only get the money from the public sector or the health service or increase taxes or create a new tax or something which wont please people.



Besides its a nice clean, simple form of ID I will never have to argue with the people at SPA if I want to buy some booze that I am over 18, suspicouse buggers.



Also if I wanted to open a new bank account this might be all the proof of ID I need, I didnt half have a hard time trying to upgrade my exsisting bank account at Barcleys, come on!! Im on there records, ive given you my addresse, postcode, DoB, my full name and account number, I showed them my ORRIGIONAL birth cirtificate, a bank statement from my parents account at the same branch and they still werent pleased. After all that they still wanted more, they only let me do it because they decided to be nice in the end on that day.



Also wont it help to ferrit out the illigal imigrents?



They will have loads of uses


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:Implanted chips are the way to go. Instead of a wallet full of cash, various forms of ID, credit cards, checks, etc., you just have a chip in your hand. To buy things, just wave your hand over a scanner. If the poice want to know who you are, they just scan your hand. Robbers can't steal it, taxes are automatically charged at the point of sale, and you can't buy illegal things (like drugs).

It could also keep track of all your medical info, so doctors will know if you are allergic to anything, or if you collapse they can instanly know if your diabetic, or whatever. Combine it with GPS (or even a low form of RF), and we can keep track of kids in school, kids that get kidnapped, etc.

Again, the people that don't want it don't have to get it. It doesn't have to be mandatory. However, other forms of cash and ID will be phased out. To participate in the gloabl market, you will need it. However, if you want to live by yourself in a bunker and grow your own food, you can do that. Plenty of paranoid wackos will object to it, but who needs them? If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry.


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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: Patriarch917

you can't buy illegal things (like drugs).




Well presumably you will be able to transfer funds between personal accounts? All you need to do is a BACS to the dealer's personal account then he gives you the drugs... not difficult.

Written by: Patriarch917

If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry




Roll on the best argument for dictatorships I've ever seen. rolleyes

Written by: Patriarch917

It doesn't have to be mandatory.




Sure, just like bank accounts aren't mandatory... unless you actually want to own a house, have a job etc etc rolleyes

Brit_Joe: I object to paying 100 for something which is redundant seeing as how I have a credit card and a driving license. I can prove who I am, I don't want or need to pay 100 for the privilege.

Frankly, if I'm going to spend money, I'd rather blow 100 on an Aerotech staff rather than a piece of plastic I don't need.

Written by: Brit_Joe

Also wont it help to ferrit out the illigal imigrents?




Frankly, I really don't care that much about illegal immigrants. But this isn't the thread to discuss it.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

addict
Location: Cannock, staffordshire
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2005
Total posts: 667
Posted:i agree we need id cards but at 100 quid a peice come on it doesnt cost that much to make a plastic card even with a photo which you have to provide also

the chip thing is a good idea but in a card with maybe a security pin like chip and pin have the card should ust have name and date of birth on but the chip contain the rest of the inforamtion that way they cant be cloned (i dont like the implant idea at all too much pain and can cause problems such as ppl with no arms, disabilities, fact ud have to be implnted and if the chip gets something wrong it would mean an op to replace it anyway...,.)

im in favour of i.d. but i will refuse as i can not afford to pay 100 quid plus another 100 for my bfs as im sole provider he is sole carer of my son, and also then to pay for my sons aswell

what about thos on benefits they definately cant afford it...

government would make money anyway they feel, you have to pay for bloody bank statements if you want backdated ones these days its getting stupid


we are getting to the point of being over greedy where money is invoved and thats half the worlds problems and why we have wars now

rant over im tired bedtime


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Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:For people with no arms, the chip goes in the forehead. In fact, anyone can choose either the right hand or the forehead.

I see no reason to presume that you can transfer funds between personal accounts, Sethis. At least, not by yourself in secret. If you want to transfer money, you will have to go through an authorized source (bank terminal, or just from a web site). Of course, it will still be easy to give a gift (easier than writing a check now). However, if you start transfering large "gifts" to a shady character with previous drug convictions, you could expect those transaction to get flagged.


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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:What do you mean you "See no reason to presume you can make personal transfers"??? What about pocket money? Birthday presents? Personal loans? Favours? Unofficial work (like mowing the lawn when you were a kid)?

What's stopping the dealer from simply getting a friend with a clean record to have the money sent into his account? The friend gets 10% and the dealer gets clean payments. It would also be fairly easy to set up a fake excuse for the money transfers... maybe personal counselling or similar.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:Those transactions could easilly be accomplished. However, since all money will really exist in computers somewhere, the movement of money from one account to the other will always be tracked. The chips themselves are not little hard disks that store the money, they are just a form of ID.

Obviously, if a drug dealer gets a friend with a clean record to start passing cash from other people to him, and taking a %10 cut, this would be even more noticable then a simple person to person transfer.

It would be difficult to make a system that is impossible to commit fraud under, but we can make a system that will make it very hard to commit fraud. If all cash exist in government computers, drug trafficking will become much more difficult. Either they will have to set up elaborate money laundering schemes, or switch to a barter system.

Such a system might never be perfect, but it will be an improvement. No more simple suitcases full of cash.

The bartering sounds like the better idea. People will simply start exchanging drugs for gold, silver, or magic cards.


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Of course, it would be very easy to establish a totalitarian state with such technology.

I'd rather give up safety over freedom.

I'll die in an explosion on the subway before I allow my bag to be searched.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:Written by: Patriarch917

For people with no arms, the chip goes in the forehead. In fact, anyone can choose either the right hand or the forehead.



"He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666" (Rev. 13:18).

devil


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:@ Chronofracture: ubblol ubblol ubblol

Patriarch: Was that sneering sarcasm about the cards, or playful fun? I want to know before I react.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

addict
Location: Cannock, staffordshire
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2005
Total posts: 667
Posted:patriarch i really do think u need help

if life became how u pictured it we may aswell all be robots as we will be controled, by the government a lot more than we are and i dont think it would help at all

i picture a madmax or jesse james scene with outlaws hiding in a secret society living there way...

and why all the thing about drug traffiking, no one mentioned drugs in all this i think your living in your own little world there

i agree with the bible reading and the fact i think you want us all branded government property, id rather become an outlaw


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Bubbles_
Bubbles_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: mancunian
Member Since: 25th Nov 2004
Total posts: 3383
Posted:ditto i was just going to say that! as soon as getting a chip in the hand or forehead came up my heart sank. im not a religious person but i do know that in the bible it is said the above statement, i would not ever want to have a chip for various reasons, but im skeptical

the id card im undecided, im justr fed up of feeling controled by the governments for many reasons, bah i dunno im tired


Disclaimer:im not responsible for what i say or do whether it be before,during and after drinking alcoholic substances (owned by BMVC).
Creater of Jenisms(TM)
Virginity like bubble,one prick all gone.

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Oh cool it would be just like Logans Run and Equlibrium, except without the carrosel or those pills that surpress emotions and turn your into a zombie...oh wait we allready have that its called weed umm smile



Wait no I wouldnt be in the resistance ide work for the goverment to ferrit you all out ubbtickled



I wouldnt care if the goverment knows what im spending my money on at any given time of day, I mean it'le only be baked beans and loaves and bread and stuff, big whoop let em have me on record if they really want me too they can im not gonna complain


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:I assure you. I would die before I would let anyone put a chip in my hand or forehead that was the sole way of buying or selling things. However, my objection is not that it doesn't make good sense from a government's perspective. I can see many benefits from moving to such a system.

No sneering sarcasm. I not only think they are a useful idea, but I think they are inevitable. I personally would die before accepting one, but there will always be wackos and rebels who won't want to participate in a global economic system.


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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:ID Application Forms wink

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Gayle......!
Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol !!!!!!
Member Since: 9th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2444
Posted:It's all turning a bit "minority report". smile

Gayle.....!

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:You know those adverts on the interent that are supposedly geared towards you? Like when you go onto a mythology site then there are adverts for replica swords and fantasy novels?

It'd be like that every time you used the chip... because the reader could tell what you bought last/often/regularly.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: Sethis

You know those adverts on the interent that are supposedly geared towards you? Like when you go onto a mythology site then there are adverts for replica swords and fantasy novels?

It'd be like that every time you used the chip... because the reader could tell what you bought last/often/regularly.


I'm not entirely comfortable with personalised adverts based on what I last bought when I'm out and about.

Could get a little...embarassing. wink


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:It's bad enough on Amazon - I've bought far more presents on there than things for myself, so it keeps telling me I want to buy the latest wave of crapness that my sisters seem to enjoy.

I'd hate it if that became the standard in advertising.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

addict
Location: Cannock, staffordshire
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2005
Total posts: 667
Posted:Written by: Brit_Joe

Oh cool it would be just like Logans Run and Equlibrium, except without the carrosel or those pills that surpress emotions and turn your into a zombie...oh wait we allready have that its called weed umm smile

Wait no I wouldnt be in the resistance ide work for the goverment to ferrit you all out ubbtickled

I wouldnt care if the goverment knows what im spending my money on at any given time of day, I mean it'le only be baked beans and loaves and bread and stuff, big whoop let em have me on record if they really want me too they can im not gonna complain




so the government knowing every thing you bought, including what films you watch, when you bought humour underwear, sexual protection, alcoholic drinks, soppy movies ect ect ect

sorry but i have a lot of privacy in my life, i like to go buy myself comfort food and eat when know ones around when im ill which is a lot, i like to watch soppy movies in bed so my bf doesnt take the micky and i like to have privacy when womens things need to be bought or lingerie without having the whole goernment body knowing what it s i just bought

think id be in lots of trouble if that was the way as we have replica swords from that uma thurman film kill bill, and replica guns from another film i forgot which they all my bfs but in that sort of thing id be suspicious and probably raided although my bf is only a film fanatic and likes his replica stuff


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Eera
old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay
Member Since: 29th May 2003
Total posts: 1107
Posted:But the checkout boy/girl knows exactly what you bought, and in all likelihood really couldn't give a toss. I can't see why the government would care that much either.

ID cards do not bother me at all. I have to carry generic and site specific ones at all times and have compulsory drug tests five times a year (different topic, but), so I can't see much difference in company ones and government ones.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted: Written by:

It's bad enough on Amazon - I've bought far more presents on there than things for myself, so it keeps telling me I want to buy the latest wave of crapness that my sisters seem to enjoy.



I'd hate it if that became the standard in advertising.





All you would have to do is egnore it, probably the same way you egnore junk mail through the letter box, or pop up adds on the internet.





Yeah there are allready records of what Ive bought, ISP's log alot of information about there users they know what sites you've visited, so they know what you've bought off the internet. Banks have your details they send you statements, everytime you buy things at the checkout information is stored somewhere, mobile phone companys keep records of text messages, they can even log phone calls.



Allready alot of information about you is being taken at any point during your working day and private investigators can often take advantage of that allready and you wouldnt even stop to think about it going about your business.



If this was ever done it would create a huge drop in crime there would be no muggings because people arnt carrying creditcards or cash on them, it would be safe to walk on any street since muggings would be allmost pointless.



There would be no credit card fraud over the internet or otherwise.



Old age pensioners and other vulnerable people would be much more safe in there own homes, that old trick of pretending to be the gass man or whatever and getting into peoples homes and stealing cash would be a thing of the past.



The courts would run alot more smoother since it would remove a certain peprotion of all petty criminal charges and public money wouldntneed to be spent prosicuiting these criminals, less money would be spent in the prisons since there would be drops in crime



All it basicly would mean is you will never be mugged for cash on the streets and never need to carry anything with you ever again, how conveniant would that be. It can only be a good thing


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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