• You must now select Courier Delivery if you wish to receive items before Christmas.
 

Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > staff contact model and notation

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Was bored enough last night to try and make a systematic model of contact staff. i.e. A way of writting down moves in a notation like siteswap for juggling. Though my notation is not very much like siteswap.

feel free to level abuse about the anal nature of such an undertaking, as well as better ideas for names / notation...

So we have six main classes:

Points
Contact Types
Planes
Grips
Entry and Exit
Turns

1) Planes

Denotes which plane a move can be done in.

Horizontal - H
Vertical - V
45 degree - /
All - A

{H,V,/,A}

2) Contact Types

Denotes what type of contact a move makes use of. This can change during a move and use conbinations of types. (like steve = roll + spin)

Types are added together with the + symbol to denote that they use two or more types.

Roll - rl
Wrap - wp
Spin - spn
Step - stp
Stall - stl

{rl,wp,spn,stp,stl}


3) Points

The points on the body at which contact can be done. (This are the 'clean' (ish) points, expecting to be the center of the area mentioned. They do not include such concepts as being upsidedown (where your groin might become a contact point) or stupidity, like butt cracks.) Also known as saddle points by some.

Head
Shoulder
Upper Arm
Forearm
Elbow
Wrist
Hand
Chest
Belly
Upper Back
Lower Back
Back of Neck
Front of Neck
Hip
Thigh
Knee
Lower Leg
Foot

Some of these have interesting things about them. But that would be a digression.

They also don't have any symbols / shortened forms yet, I don't know if that would make it too hard to understand...


4) Grip

3/4 out - 3/4O
3/4 in - 3/4I
centre - C

inwards refers to when you are holding the staff kunckles up horizontally with more of the staff across your body, than outside of your personal space.

outwards is the opposite.


5) Entry and Exit

The Grip and Plane notations can also be appended to the entry and exit information.

Shoulder - S
Waist - W
Under Leg - UL

to denote the otherside of the body use the hyphen -. (Not applicable to UL)
to denote an BTB (or behind other bodypart) entrance use the anglebracket >

{S,W,UL,-S,-W,>S,>UL,->S,->W}

Behind the shoulder (>S) I think does work, because you can twist your arm around enough to get there.
Up for debate in other words.

This basically makes use of the five holes theory, so when I say a waist entrance it means anywhere from above your leg and to under your arm. The same with the shoulder, it encompasses the space from above the arm to the side of the head.


6) Turns

90 - ;
180 - :
270 - :;
360 - ::

can use numbers or notation. Turns are put between moves and are assumed to happen instantaneously, though of course in reality they do not.
direction is not specified, oh dear.

Er well, lets say backside and frontside. With the foot on the same side as the entry staying still. (and the other rotates around it.)
I'll probably need to do a defination of backside and frontside at this point huh?


Movement Notation

finally to make it all fit together:

[PLANE]: [ENTRY] ! ([POINT],[CONTACT TYPE]) [TURN] ! [EXIT]

and one final special notation: * for a direction change.

and
inwards spinning - I
outwards spinning - O

so it would look vaguely like this:

A: >WI!(shoulder,wp)(upper back,spn)(-shoulder,wp)!>WO

simply for a halo roll. (I forgot to mention that you can denote the otherside bodypart with a hyphen as well)

And the exit seems to be assumed to be with the other hand...

ahhh this is sooo geeky I might puke.


Might put in a special way of notating continuous moves, or something, as well as the beats of a movement...

I haven't 'tested' this notation yet... so that'll be fun...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete Topic

ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:cool!!!

then you can build a robot that can contact staff

and you'll never have to leave the computer!!!


Love is the law.

Delete

mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:and if I put a curly wig on the robot, would anybody know the difference?
biggrin


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., Uni...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:it would need a baggy top and some trousers......... oh and its belly showing, then no one would tell the differance wink

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:a stickbot sounds like a cool idea to me. you'd still need to answer this to make it worthwhile:

"is it possible to get from any given point to any other given point using any type of contact type? or are there any "impossible" gaps?"

well obviously there are some impossible gaps. rolls can only go to an adjacent body part.

spins + stalls can be done anywhere innit?
steps/wraps - anywhere to anywhere? maybe... difficult to think of any physically impossible transfers.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

mo-seph


mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 524
Posted:Written by: simian

a stickbot sounds like a cool idea to me. you'd still need to answer this to make it worthwhile:

"is it possible to get from any given point to any other given point using any type of contact type? or are there any "impossible" gaps?"



Hence why a grammar is useful - it codes these possible and impossible transitions.

A notation is boring without a sensible model behind it.


monkeys ate my brain

Delete

mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:There are some 'un-obviously' ones that require your limbs to make shapes: Like the conveyor belt... and the whole of the matrix. Encoding the physics of the body that holds the bot together would be a bitch.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Written by: mcp

Matrix:

H/: -SI ! (-shoulder.wrap)(->shoulder.wrap)(back of neck.wrap)(>shoulder.wrap)(shoulder.wrap)(front of neck.wrap) ! SO

Jesus:

A: WI ! (shoulder.wrap)90b(upper back.spin)90b(-shoulder.wrap)90b(chest.spin)90b(shoulder.wrap)90b(upper back.spin)(-shoulder.wrap) ! -WO

Cont Back of Neck things / cont halo rolls...

A: SI ! (back of neck.wrap)180b(upper back.spin)180b ! SO




Non-Https Image Link


Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:first of all, that's not a pancake. it's a dorayaki.

secondly, if you have no idea what the notation means then why not read the first post?
if you still have no idea then well done! you're stupid!

sorry, lagomorphs make me grouchy.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:frown

I can understand it.

I'm just not entirely sure why people want to break staff / poi or any other prop for that matter down to formulae.

Does it not just alienatethose that dont understand it?
I've definitely noticed that with poi.


Delete

mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:who cares? As long as the computer does? It's not like anybody is going to post a new move in this notation, it's JUST FOR FUN! (and geekiness)

And I might add, having to learn to read music really stopped me wanting to learn the piano.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Hubert_Cumberdale
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

Hubert_Cumberdale

[psylocibin fingerbobe].
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 479
Posted: Written by: Seye


 Written by: mcp


Matrix:

H/: -SI ! (-shoulder.wrap)(->shoulder.wrap)(back of neck.wrap)(>shoulder.wrap)(shoulder.wrap)(front of neck.wrap) ! SO

Jesus:

A: WI ! (shoulder.wrap)90b(upper back.spin)90b(-shoulder.wrap)90b(chest.spin)90b(shoulder.wrap)90b(upper back.spin)(-shoulder.wrap) ! -WO

Cont Back of Neck things / cont halo rolls...

A: SI ! (back of neck.wrap)180b(upper back.spin)180b ! SO




Non-Https Image Link





ubblol ubblol ubblol


Delete

mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:geek alert!

So some rules of grammar:

a contact move can only transition to an adjacent bodypart, or; to or from any 'core' bodypart to / from a mobile one. (mobile like the limbs.)

spins can't transition. They can only transition by changing to a new contact type. (if spins start moving they step.)

spin + stall = step.

all other contact types HAVE to transition to a different bodypart.


(there are probably other very specific ones, but I can't think of any more general ones right now.)

and then various constraints on the bodyparts like: mobile or immobile. singular or double. attached to, and so on.

teh win!

/geek


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:"a contact move can only transition to an adjacent bodypart, or; to or from any 'core' bodypart to / from a mobile one. (mobile like the limbs.)"

???

you can't transition from shoulder to shoulder then? or are shoulders mobile? or adjacent? how are you defining adjacent? is it impossible to wrap from hip to shoulder? i don't think so...

C+ good effort, but must try harder tongue

ooh and look, quoting entire posts! that weren't funny in the first place! or vaguely relevant to the discussion! No wonder the staff forum is so vibrant and full of useful information...


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

The Misguided Oracle
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

The Misguided Oracle

the floor is a sea of tigers...
Location: Brisvegas, Australia

Total posts: 404
Posted:oh god, i'm confused.... frown

"My body is a well tuned machine... It just needs a competent driver." - ?

Delete

mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:no you can't, you have to go via the neck, or in the other case via the belly / chest / torso...

Stepping can maybe transition from shoulder to shoulder without touching the neck. But the rest really can't.

anything else? confused hug


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Page: 12